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Balkanisation of the United States 「Yes or No?」

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Can we save the United States or should we Balkanise it?

Yes, it can be saved- Through radical political reforms such as centralising power to the central government, and giving more equal representation to all areas
74
28%
Yes, it can be saved- By keeping the status quo
50
19%
Yes, it can be saved- Through radical political reforms such as giving each state more power
52
20%
No, it cannot be saved - Separate the United States into several countries based on regions
34
13%
No, it cannot be saved- Balkanise the United States into many countries based on states
21
8%
Other Yes (Please describe)
19
7%
Other No (Please describe)
11
4%
 
Total votes : 261

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Zordila
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Founded: Oct 05, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Zordila » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:03 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:No, it's saying criminals may have to do community service, but no other enforced labour may exist. INCLUDING slavery.


So why is there slavery in it? Shouldn't it be removed if it gone now?


The point is, it's not there anymore. So deal with it.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:03 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:No, it's saying criminals may have to do community service, but no other enforced labour may exist. INCLUDING slavery.


So why is there slavery in it? Shouldn't it be removed if it gone now?

You can't erase ink quills. The 18th amendment is still in, even though it was repealed.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:03 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:No, it's saying criminals may have to do community service, but no other enforced labour may exist. INCLUDING slavery.


So why is there slavery in it? Shouldn't it be removed if it gone now?

.....there isn't.
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Kiu Ghesik
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kiu Ghesik » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:03 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:No, it's saying criminals may have to do community service, but no other enforced labour may exist. INCLUDING slavery.


So why is there slavery in it? Shouldn't it be removed if it gone now?

It is removed. The lines were preserved for posterity, the amendments supersede the text in the Constitution's function.
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Empirical Switzerland
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Postby Empirical Switzerland » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:04 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:No, it's saying criminals may have to do community service, but no other enforced labour may exist. INCLUDING slavery.


So why is there slavery in it? Shouldn't it be removed if it gone now?

Show us what you are reffering to. Where does it say slavery is allowed?!
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La xinga
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Postby La xinga » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:04 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:No, it's saying criminals may have to do community service, but no other enforced labour may exist. INCLUDING slavery.


So why is there slavery in it? Shouldn't it be removed if it gone now?

Ok, so if a country has something horrible and disgusting in their constitution, and it has been repealed and does not effect anyone although is still there, it should be entirely abolished? :blink:
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Neanderthaland
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Neanderthaland » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:04 pm

I for one welcome our CCP overlords.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:04 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
The Nover Thura wrote:
So why is there slavery in it? Shouldn't it be removed if it gone now?

You can't erase ink quills. The 18th amendment is still in, even though it was repealed.

Wait, he's complaining about the fucking INK still being there?
C'mon man! :roll:
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The Nover Thura
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Founded: Oct 05, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Nover Thura » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:05 pm

Kiu Ghesik wrote:
The Nover Thura wrote:
So why is there slavery in it? Shouldn't it be removed if it gone now?

It is removed. The lines were preserved for posterity, the amendments supersede the text in the Constitution's function.


Okay. But what about the founding fathers. They were racist and owned slaves. They did horrible things and people worship them. Would it be better is if America was made new with founders that are not racist?

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Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:05 pm

Reform, while likely slower, seems less likely to end up bloody or tyrannical.
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Hardscrabbel
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Postby Hardscrabbel » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:06 pm

Kiu Ghesik wrote:
Genivaria wrote:If your criteria is NOT having a history of bloodshed and racism than I've got some bad news for you about World History.

NTM what he's implying is basically "let's put a one-second gap between the US and some new nation that's functionally the US so we can go 'nuh-uh, that never happened in this nation!'"


Let’s do that, it would make me feel so much better about my “new” country that has never done anything wrong.

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Grinning Dragon
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Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:06 pm

NO!
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The Nover Thura
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Postby The Nover Thura » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:06 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:I for one welcome our CCP overlords.

CCP?

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Empirical Switzerland
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Ex-Nation

Postby Empirical Switzerland » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:06 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Kiu Ghesik wrote:It is removed. The lines were preserved for posterity, the amendments supersede the text in the Constitution's function.


Okay. But what about the founding fathers. They were racist and owned slaves. They did horrible things and people worship them. Would it be better is if America was made new with founders that are not racist?

Tell me a country from at least 200 years ago that wasn't founded by racists?
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:06 pm

Nah.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:07 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Kiu Ghesik wrote:It is removed. The lines were preserved for posterity, the amendments supersede the text in the Constitution's function.


Okay. But what about the founding fathers. They were racist and owned slaves. They did horrible things and people worship them. Would it be better is if America was made new with founders that are not racist?

This is stupid dude, wtf would be the point?
It's still the same history, same land, same people, same dark history.

Thinking that changing the name of the country somehow erases it's dark past is childish and stupid.
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Linkers Sha
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Founded: May 21, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Linkers Sha » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:07 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:I for one welcome our CCP overlords.

CCP?


The chinese communist party or CCP if you want to say it shortened
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The Nover Thura
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Nover Thura » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:07 pm

Empirical Switzerland wrote:
The Nover Thura wrote:
Okay. But what about the founding fathers. They were racist and owned slaves. They did horrible things and people worship them. Would it be better is if America was made new with founders that are not racist?

Tell me a country from at least 200 years ago that wasn't founded by racists?


Liberia?

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Bombadil
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:08 pm

I don't necessarily see it as a bad idea, call it the Great Renewal Project, whereby the history of the founding, the wiping out of first natives, the slavery, the inequality, is symbolically renounced and a new Constitution, not greatly different, is created and set as the new foundation of a new America.

I don't particularly see it as necessary but I also don't see it as a bad idea.
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Hardscrabbel
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Postby Hardscrabbel » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:08 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Kiu Ghesik wrote:It is removed. The lines were preserved for posterity, the amendments supersede the text in the Constitution's function.


Okay. But what about the founding fathers. They were racist and owned slaves. They did horrible things and people worship them. Would it be better is if America was made new with founders that are not racist?


Ok... so let’s pretend that everything before Abraham Lincoln was considered “The Old United States of America” and after the Civil war when the union won our official new country was recreated as “The United States of ‘Merica” with Abraham Lincoln as our founding father

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Kiu Ghesik
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kiu Ghesik » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:09 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Kiu Ghesik wrote:It is removed. The lines were preserved for posterity, the amendments supersede the text in the Constitution's function.


Okay. But what about the founding fathers. They were racist and owned slaves. They did horrible things and people worship them. Would it be better is if America was made new with founders that are not racist?

It wouldn't functionally change anything. Besides, every leader from Abraham to the Prophet Mohammed to Charlemagne to the Qing Emperor had slaves. The Founding Fathers' other accomplishments far outweigh being racist and owning slaves when literally every upper-class white dude and their mother did those things in their time.

Not to mention, not all of them owned slaves. Some of them just traded slaves. And a good number had no connection to the trade at all.
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Vaspelia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vaspelia » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:09 pm

ethnic-based racism > melanin-based racism
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:09 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:Tell me a country from at least 200 years ago that wasn't founded by racists?


Liberia?

PFFFFFTTTTTHAHAHAHAHA!!!
No.

The Americo-Liberian settlers did not relate well to the indigenous peoples they encountered, especially those in communities of the more isolated "bush". The colonial settlements were raided by the Kru and Grebo from their inland chiefdoms. Americo-Liberians developed as a small elite that held on to political power,[8] and indigenous tribesmen were excluded from birthright citizenship in their own land until 1904, in an echo of the United States' treatment of Native Americans.[9] Americo-Liberians promoted religious organizations to set up missions and schools to educate the indigenous peoples.[10]

Wow this sounds fucking familiar.
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Empirical Switzerland
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Ex-Nation

Postby Empirical Switzerland » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:09 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:Tell me a country from at least 200 years ago that wasn't founded by racists?


Liberia?

Oops. Sorry. 171 years old.
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Hardscrabbel
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Founded: Oct 04, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Hardscrabbel » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:09 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:Tell me a country from at least 200 years ago that wasn't founded by racists?


Liberia?


That one WAS founded by racists who wanted to find a different place than America to send freed black people

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