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Balkanisation of the United States 「Yes or No?」

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Can we save the United States or should we Balkanise it?

Yes, it can be saved- Through radical political reforms such as centralising power to the central government, and giving more equal representation to all areas
74
28%
Yes, it can be saved- By keeping the status quo
50
19%
Yes, it can be saved- Through radical political reforms such as giving each state more power
52
20%
No, it cannot be saved - Separate the United States into several countries based on regions
34
13%
No, it cannot be saved- Balkanise the United States into many countries based on states
21
8%
Other Yes (Please describe)
19
7%
Other No (Please describe)
11
4%
 
Total votes : 261

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The Nover Thura
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Should the United States be abolished?

Postby The Nover Thura » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:31 pm

The United States is supposed to be the land of freedom, justice and equality. At least, that is what we are all taught. Reality is far different as the USA is plague by racism, homophobia, class inequality and oppression of minorities. A lot of people defend this horror as patriotism. This is not surprising since America was literally founded by a bunch of old aristocrat who were racist slave owners. And America largely reflect this with its dark history and ongoing oppression of the people.

But today, people are starting to see this. People are demanding change but the reactionaries are defend racism as patriotism because of the constitution and the founding fathers. So my question to you is, would it be good idea to abolish the United States and replace it with a new country. A new country with no dark history, no racist founders, and a constitution that guarantee freedom and equality for all.

I think this is good idea. It can be a America for all people where racism is not patriotic, where there is no dark history and the first president is not a slave owner. It could be an example that can lead to a better world for all, I think.

What are your thought?

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Qassadia
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Postby Qassadia » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:33 pm

Y E S


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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:34 pm

Abolished in favour of what, though?

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:35 pm

Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?

OP is a bit quiet on that account.
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The Nover Thura
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Postby The Nover Thura » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:36 pm

Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?


A new nation without dark history and racism. No racist first president and no oppressive constitution.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:36 pm

Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?

The Allied States of America.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:37 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?


A new nation without dark history and racism. No racist first president and no oppressive constitution.

Be more specific.
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Empirical Switzerland
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Postby Empirical Switzerland » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:38 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?


A new nation without dark history and racism. No racist first president and no oppressive constitution.

Name one oppressive thing in the constitution
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:38 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?


A new nation without dark history and racism. No racist first president and no oppressive constitution.


While I do agree that the US worship their founding fathers and the Constitution a little too much, since both are fallible and flawed, I'm not sure it is warranted to just yeet the whole lot into the garbage bin.

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The Nover Thura
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Postby The Nover Thura » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:39 pm

Empirical Switzerland wrote:
The Nover Thura wrote:
A new nation without dark history and racism. No racist first president and no oppressive constitution.

Name one oppressive thing in the constitution


The racism. It says that black person is only 3/5 human.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:39 pm

It would be a great way to skip out on our debt.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:39 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:Name one oppressive thing in the constitution


The racism. It says that black person is only 3/5 human.

We have an amendment for that.
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Bienenhalde
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Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:39 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Abolished in favour of what, though?


A new nation without dark history and racism. No racist first president and no oppressive constitution.


The People's Republic of America? :roll:
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Bienenhalde
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:41 pm

Albrenia wrote:
The Nover Thura wrote:A new nation without dark history and racism. No racist first president and no oppressive constitution.


While I do agree that the US worship their founding fathers and the Constitution a little too much, since both are fallible and flawed, I'm not sure it is warranted to just yeet the whole lot into the garbage bin.


Exactly. Violent upheaval and chaos generally causes much suffering and misery.
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Albionist Great Britain
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Postby Albionist Great Britain » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:41 pm

No. That is a so incredibly naïve question that it shouldn’t even be asked. If you abolish the United States, you’re handing global power to the ultranationalist fascistic regime in Peking and abandoning American allies and dependents elsewhere to the hordes of China, Russia and whoever else will take a bite at humanity’s expense.

As well, your points aren’t worth anything - especially not for the abolishment of the United States. Every country has a darker history, and that will always be the case. You cannot wipe the slate clean, so suck it up, move on, and do what you believe is better than those that came before you. Not only is this naïve and ignorant, this is utterly cowardly [and an insult to the freedoms of humanity and the advancements made by the United States].
Last edited by Albionist Great Britain on Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Empirical Switzerland
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Postby Empirical Switzerland » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:42 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:Name one oppressive thing in the constitution


The racism. It says that black person is only 3/5 human.

That was removed lol. Besides, that was a state law, not amendment
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Kathol Rift
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Postby Kathol Rift » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:42 pm

So basically, OP is saying to make the same nation again, but take out the 3/5 clause (which got repealed in an amendment) so we can be the same nation, but pretend our history didn’t happen. I feel like this isn’t as stellar of an idea has the OP makes it out to be.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:43 pm

Kathol Rift wrote:So basically, OP is saying to make the same nation again, but take out the 3/5 clause (which got repealed in an amendment) so we can be the same nation, but pretend our history didn’t happen. I feel like this isn’t as stellar of an idea has the OP makes it out to be.

OP hasn't heard of amendments, apparently.
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Hardscrabbel
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Postby Hardscrabbel » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:43 pm

Albrenia wrote:
The Nover Thura wrote:
A new nation without dark history and racism. No racist first president and no oppressive constitution.


While I do agree that the US worship their founding fathers and the Constitution a little too much, since both are fallible and flawed, I'm not sure it is warranted to just yeet the whole lot into the garbage bin.


But what if “Just Yeet It” is my life’s motto? :)

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Zandilund
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Postby Zandilund » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:43 pm

There's a difference between "abolish" and "reform".

Abolishing a nation to form a new one so there is no dark history seems a little idealistic. Almost all countries have a dark history but have become better nations. The United States can become better too, but maybe it won't, depending on your definition of "better". The nation is flawed, but it has its strengths. Maybe their strengths top their weaknesses, I'll leave that to you guys, though in my opinion the United States shouldn't be reformed.

Anyways, I'm probably not going to post here anymore because arguing online isn't something I have time for at the moment. Good luck.
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The Nover Thura
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Postby The Nover Thura » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:43 pm

Empirical Switzerland wrote:
The Nover Thura wrote:
The racism. It says that black person is only 3/5 human.

That was removed lol. Besides, that was a state law, not amendment


But it is in the constitution still and it allow slavery and taxing people.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:44 pm

Hardscrabbel wrote:
Albrenia wrote:
While I do agree that the US worship their founding fathers and the Constitution a little too much, since both are fallible and flawed, I'm not sure it is warranted to just yeet the whole lot into the garbage bin.


But what if “Just Yeet It” is my life’s motto? :)


A highly respectable motto. Please continue.

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Empirical Switzerland
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Postby Empirical Switzerland » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:44 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:That was removed lol. Besides, that was a state law, not amendment


But it is in the constitution still and it allow slavery and taxing people.

No, it is not in the constitution, and slavery was abolished in the constitution, and is illegal. Besides, every country taxes people.
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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:44 pm

The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:That was removed lol. Besides, that was a state law, not amendment


But it is in the constitution still and it allow slavery and taxing people.

Again, the 13th amendment. Also, taxes? You want to get rid of the US because it has taxes? So does every country ever.
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How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
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Kathol Rift
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Postby Kathol Rift » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:45 pm

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Kathol Rift wrote:So basically, OP is saying to make the same nation again, but take out the 3/5 clause (which got repealed in an amendment) so we can be the same nation, but pretend our history didn’t happen. I feel like this isn’t as stellar of an idea has the OP makes it out to be.

OP hasn't heard of amendments, apparently.

Apparently not
The Nover Thura wrote:
Empirical Switzerland wrote:That was removed lol. Besides, that was a state law, not amendment


But it is in the constitution still and it allow slavery and taxing people.

No, slavery is outlawed under the constitution due to the 13th amendment, and yes, of course it allows taxing people. A country cannot run without taxation.
Just your average modernized Spartan-Viking-Samurai with robotic birds and big guns

Male, Caucasian, American, son of a cop. Brother Fowles kind of Christian. I dislike both parties, give me healthcare and gun rights, damnit.

As the top of the sig says. Tier 2 FFT and Dominator military by The Pacific Standards. Major Commando insurrection bordering on civil war some minor civil unrest going on, no elite military force in rebellion.

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