Macron vows to fight "Islamist separatism"

[Albrenia]

And where is sharia in force in France?

Certain muslim neighborhoods in Paris, where young men take it upon themselves to hassle women who don't dress right.

That's harassment, not sharia law. It should be punished by law, but it's not sharia law.

[French Volta]

Are you intending to imply that, the French government’s new stance, which is ultimately being motivated by secular progressivism, would progress into what is being practiced in China?

I would also challenge the notion that China’s policies towards the Uyghurs are recent. The persecution has always been harsh and has existed for as long as the PRC has had control of Sinkiang.

And what is the Muslim community doing to justify this?

That has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You're ignoring my question.

[Major-Tom]

This is only part of the solution, I've always said this, there has to be direct government intervention in the banlieues to lift the predominantly migrant populations out of poverty, into better schooling, into better housing, etc.

Because when you monitor mosques and more closely Islamic curriculum, yes, that does help, and that does reduce the chances somewhat of more extremism. But it only nips in the bud isolated cases, if you want to address the root of the problem, it is that many Muslims in France and elsewhere in Europe live in poverty, and live among each other, creating poor, insular communities. That breeds extremism and dissuades integration, it is why third-generation Muslims in France tend to be less secular and less assimilated than their parents and grandparents, which seems a baffling trend, but when you look at the "why" it makes sense.

I'll give credit to Canada, specifically, for having been able to encourage integration and really assist the migrant Muslim population in the integration process, even the US is better at this than in much of Europe.

[Major-Tom]

Are you intending to imply that, the French government’s new stance, which is ultimately being motivated by secular progressivism, would progress into what is being practiced in China?

I would also challenge the notion that China’s policies towards the Uyghurs are recent. The persecution has always been harsh and has existed for as long as the PRC has had control of Sinkiang.

And what is the Muslim community doing to justify this?

You can be unabashedly anti-right populism and still concede that more needs to be done to fight the lack of integration and rising extremism in many of these insular, poor and predominantly Muslim communities. And you can do so without delving into the realm of Islamaphobia.

[Panslavicland]

Islamist separatism, who couldve seen this coming.

Working as intended. This 'integration' attempt will fail.

[Vassenor]

And what is the Muslim community doing to justify this?

That has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You're ignoring my question.

Asking what the justification for a policy change is has nothing to do with discussion about that policy change?

[Freiheit Reich]

If he is serious, this is positive. Religious freedom is important but many Muslims believe only their religion deserves protection. If the Muslims dislike the new policy, they are free to move back to their homelands (or their parents' homelands) in north Africa and the Middle East. France has tended to be very soft when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

He also needs to cut down on immigration from Islamic nations that lack true religious freedom for all religions (which is the vast majority of them). Unchecked immigration from unfriendly nations will turn France into a majority Islamic nation which means people will start voting Muslims in office and non-Muslims will slowly lose their freedoms. Once the intolerant Islamic nations apologize and allow true religious freedom in their own countries, immigrants from these countries can be considered again. This will encourage other governments to improve their own human rights issues.

France has a lot to worry about. Below are several news stories about Islam in France and the terrorism that has occurred.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/?s=france

[Vassenor]

If he is serious, this is positive. Religious freedom is important but many Muslims believe only their religion deserves protection. If the Muslims dislike the new policy, they are free to move back to their homelands (or their parents' homelands) in north Africa and the Middle East. France has tended to be very soft when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

He also needs to cut down on immigration from Islamic nations that lack true religious freedom for all religions (which is the vast majority of them). Unchecked immigration from unfriendly nations will turn France into a majority Islamic nation which means people will start voting Muslims in office and non-Muslims will slowly lose their freedoms. Once the intolerant Islamic nations apologize and allow true religious freedom in their own countries, immigrants from these countries can be considered again. This will encourage other governments to improve their own human rights issues.

France has a lot to worry about. Below are several news stories about Islam in France and the terrorism that has occurred.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/?s=france

>Jihad Watch

Yes I am sure a site with a name like that is 100% objective and not in any way biased at all.

[Albrenia]

If he is serious, this is positive. Religious freedom is important but many Muslims believe only their religion deserves protection. If the Muslims dislike the new policy, they are free to move back to their homelands (or their parents' homelands) in north Africa and the Middle East. France has tended to be very soft when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

He also needs to cut down on immigration from Islamic nations that lack true religious freedom for all religions (which is the vast majority of them). Unchecked immigration from unfriendly nations will turn France into a majority Islamic nation which means people will start voting Muslims in office and non-Muslims will slowly lose their freedoms. Once the intolerant Islamic nations apologize and allow true religious freedom in their own countries, immigrants from these countries can be considered again. This will encourage other governments to improve their own human rights issues.

France has a lot to worry about. Below are several news stories about Islam in France and the terrorism that has occurred.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/?s=france

>Jihad Watch

Yes I am sure a site with a name like that is 100% objective and not in any way biased at all.

It's slightly annoying when people actually have a point (about the need for better integration of immigrants and the protection of religious freedoms) but then they go and spoil it with all this Great Replacement nonsense.

[Freiheit Reich]

This is only part of the solution, I've always said this, there has to be direct government intervention in the banlieues to lift the predominantly migrant populations out of poverty, into better schooling, into better housing, etc.

Because when you monitor mosques and more closely Islamic curriculum, yes, that does help, and that does reduce the chances somewhat of more extremism. But it only nips in the bud isolated cases, if you want to address the root of the problem, it is that many Muslims in France and elsewhere in Europe live in poverty, and live among each other, creating poor, insular communities. That breeds extremism and dissuades integration, it is why third-generation Muslims in France tend to be less secular and less assimilated than their parents and grandparents, which seems a baffling trend, but when you look at the "why" it makes sense.

I'll give credit to Canada, specifically, for having been able to encourage integration and really assist the migrant Muslim population in the integration process, even the US is better at this than in much of Europe.

If they are so unhappy, why don't they move back to the lands of their ancestors? Obviously, it means being semi-poor in France is better than being poor in Algeria or Chad. People will say they are poor because white people discriminate (and most Muslims are not-white). However, in the United States, Japanese-Americans are more successful than the average Americans despite having a different appearance. The race card doesn't apply in the USA and I doubt it applies in France either.

The French can't be blamed for the problems that immigrants have. The immigrants (and their children and grandchildren) need to look within and try to wonder why they are not doing better when Nigerian-Americans and Japanese-Americans have done so well in their new country. Perhaps France need to offer one-way plane tickets to those that hate France so much despite France being so generous as to allow them to move there.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/fact-sh ... n-the-u-s/

https://nypost.com/2020/07/11/the-falla ... g-society/

[Vassenor]

This is only part of the solution, I've always said this, there has to be direct government intervention in the banlieues to lift the predominantly migrant populations out of poverty, into better schooling, into better housing, etc.

Because when you monitor mosques and more closely Islamic curriculum, yes, that does help, and that does reduce the chances somewhat of more extremism. But it only nips in the bud isolated cases, if you want to address the root of the problem, it is that many Muslims in France and elsewhere in Europe live in poverty, and live among each other, creating poor, insular communities. That breeds extremism and dissuades integration, it is why third-generation Muslims in France tend to be less secular and less assimilated than their parents and grandparents, which seems a baffling trend, but when you look at the "why" it makes sense.

I'll give credit to Canada, specifically, for having been able to encourage integration and really assist the migrant Muslim population in the integration process, even the US is better at this than in much of Europe.

If they are so unhappy, why don't they move back to the lands of their ancestors? Obviously, it means being semi-poor in France is better than being poor in Algeria or Chad. People will say they are poor because white people discriminate (and most Muslims are not-white). However, in the United States, Japanese-Americans are more successful than the average Americans despite having a different appearance. The race card doesn't apply in the USA and I doubt it applies in France either.

The French can't be blamed for the problems that immigrants have. The immigrants (and their children and grandchildren) need to look within and try to wonder why they are not doing better when Nigerian-Americans and Japanese-Americans have done so well in their new country. Perhaps France need to offer one-way plane tickets to those that hate France so much despite France being so generous as to allow them to move there.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/fact-sh ... n-the-u-s/

https://nypost.com/2020/07/11/the-falla ... g-society/

So because two demographics you've cherry picked don't suffer what you consider racial discrimination in America it must be a universal thing for all minorities the world over?

[Albrenia]

The race card applies everywhere, dude. Maybe not to the extent that many of the more shrill voices claim, but it damn sure applies everywhere.

[Freiheit Reich]

If he is serious, this is positive. Religious freedom is important but many Muslims believe only their religion deserves protection. If the Muslims dislike the new policy, they are free to move back to their homelands (or their parents' homelands) in north Africa and the Middle East. France has tended to be very soft when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

He also needs to cut down on immigration from Islamic nations that lack true religious freedom for all religions (which is the vast majority of them). Unchecked immigration from unfriendly nations will turn France into a majority Islamic nation which means people will start voting Muslims in office and non-Muslims will slowly lose their freedoms. Once the intolerant Islamic nations apologize and allow true religious freedom in their own countries, immigrants from these countries can be considered again. This will encourage other governments to improve their own human rights issues.

France has a lot to worry about. Below are several news stories about Islam in France and the terrorism that has occurred.


>Jihad Watch

Yes I am sure a site with a name like that is 100% objective and not in any way biased at all.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/?s=france

The site gets a lot of criticism. You need to read the FAQ page to see that the site is reasonable. The site keeps track of news from around the world. It is not their fault that terrorism in the name of islam keeps happening. If the terrorism stops, the site won't have any more news to report. Don't blame the messenger.

[Vassenor]

https://www.jihadwatch.org/?s=france

The site gets a lot of criticism. You need to read the FAQ page to see that the site is reasonable. The site keeps track of news from around the world. It is not their fault that terrorism in the name of islam keeps happening. If the terrorism stops, the site won't have any more news to report. Don't blame the messenger.

"They say they're reasonable so they must be reasonable because people on the internet never lie about their biases"

[Great Mann]

I am wholly pleased to see Pres. Macron taking a stand before Islamism and the threat it poses to all Frenchmen. I do feel it is somewhat overdue but at least it’s happening.

I wish our own government was actually competent to implement something similar in the United Kingdom, we absolutely need to regulate the source of Islamic teachings and see to the Muslim population wholly and entirely understands and upholds human rights, democracy, and freedom before their own dogmatic teachings.

[Vassenor]

I am wholly pleased to see Pres. Macron taking a stand before Islamism and the threat it poses to all Frenchmen. I do feel it is somewhat overdue but at least it’s happening.

I wish our own government was actually competent to implement something similar in the United Kingdom, we absolutely need to regulate the source of Islamic teachings and see to the Muslim population wholly and entirely understands and upholds human rights, democracy, and freedom before their own dogmatic teachings.

So what acts actually happening in France will this prevent?

[Freiheit Reich]

If they are so unhappy, why don't they move back to the lands of their ancestors? Obviously, it means being semi-poor in France is better than being poor in Algeria or Chad. People will say they are poor because white people discriminate (and most Muslims are not-white). However, in the United States, Japanese-Americans are more successful than the average Americans despite having a different appearance. The race card doesn't apply in the USA and I doubt it applies in France either.

The French can't be blamed for the problems that immigrants have. The immigrants (and their children and grandchildren) need to look within and try to wonder why they are not doing better when Nigerian-Americans and Japanese-Americans have done so well in their new country. Perhaps France need to offer one-way plane tickets to those that hate France so much despite France being so generous as to allow them to move there.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/fact-sh ... n-the-u-s/

https://nypost.com/2020/07/11/the-falla ... g-society/

So because two demographics you've cherry picked don't suffer what you consider racial discrimination in America it must be a universal thing for all minorities the world over?

I can add Indians to the list.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... s-in-india

I am sure with more research, I can add even more. I also made the point that you don't see many migrants returning to their ancestors' homelands. Life in France must not be that bad. I bet many Americans are jealous of Muslim immigrants in France considering how many Americans dream of living in France. I am willing to bet that most Muslims in France have running water, electricity, access to free libraries and free public schools, access to excellent and free parks, toilets and showers in their own homes, and affordable and healthy food (I know food in supermarkets in Germany is cheap and healthy, I bet France is similar). Being poor in France is probably better than being poor in the USA. France also has public health care which benefits all poor people while many lower working-class Americans can't afford health care. Many migrants from Muslim countries want to keep coming to France even though Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Kuwait have high per-capita incomes. Life in France (even for the lower classes) must be good.

[Vassenor]

So because two demographics you've cherry picked don't suffer what you consider racial discrimination in America it must be a universal thing for all minorities the world over?

I can add Indians to the list.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... s-in-india

I am sure with more research, I can add even more. I also made the point that you don't see many migrants returning to their ancestors' homelands. Life in France must not be that bad. I bet many Americans are jealous of Muslim immigrants in France considering how many Americans dream of living in France. I am willing to bet that most Muslims in France have running water, electricity, access to free libraries and free public schools, access to excellent and free parks, toilets and showers in their own homes, and affordable and healthy food (I know food in supermarkets in Germany is cheap and healthy, I bet France is similar). Being poor in France is probably better than being poor in the USA. France also has public health care which benefits all poor people while many lower working-class Americans can't afford health care. Many migrants from Muslim countries want to keep coming to France even though Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Kuwait have high per-capita incomes. Life in France (even for the lower classes) must be good.

So you're literally trying to Appeal To Worse Problems claims of racial discrimination.

Oh right, and when you're citing the works of Robert Spencer as evidence for Muslims being evil, that's probably a sign that your argument isn't as strong as you think it is.

[The Alma Mater]

Certain muslim neighborhoods in Paris, where young men take it upon themselves to hassle women who don't dress right.

That's harassment, not sharia law. It should be punished by law, but it's not sharia law.

In the real world, Sharia law is what muslims say it is,. What the quaran and such say it should be in theory is irrelevant.

[French Volta]

That has nothing to do with what we were talking about. You're ignoring my question.

Asking what the justification for a policy change is has nothing to do with discussion about that policy change?

The discussion was about your attempt to draw equivalence between what's happening in France and what's happening in China. Would you admit that was an absurd comparison?

[Vassenor]

Asking what the justification for a policy change is has nothing to do with discussion about that policy change?

The discussion was about your attempt to draw equivalence between what's happening in France and what's happening in China. Would you admit that was an absurd comparison?

So what is the justification for policies like this?

[French Volta]

The discussion was about your attempt to draw equivalence between what's happening in France and what's happening in China. Would you admit that was an absurd comparison?

So what is the justification for policies like this?

So your not even attempting to be subtle with your deflection then? Okay.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Not sure what OP’s on about but France has been on this bent for over a decade now. Macron isn’t doing anything new really, other than outright stating it.

[Vassenor]

So what is the justification for policies like this?

So your not even attempting to be subtle with your deflection then? Okay.

Well that's one way to admit there's no justification for policies like this, no matter what extent they're taken to.

[French Volta]

So your not even attempting to be subtle with your deflection then? Okay.

Well that's one way to admit there's no justification for policies like this, no matter what extent they're taken to.

You don’t even know my stance on what’s happening in France. I’m not going to budge on this, attempting to draw equivalence between this and the genocide in China is bullshit and you should acknowledge that.