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The Formal US President Illness Thread

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The Archregimancy
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The Formal US President Illness Thread

Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:05 am

In light of the recent news that the President of the United States has been taken to hospital, I am starting a mod-sanctioned thread for discussion of President Trump's illness separately from the existing general election and MAGA threads.

While there will be inevitable overlap between the three threads, this thread is where you can more freely discuss such topics as:

1) How serious is the President's illness? Is this really serious, or is sending him to Walter Reed merely a sensible minor precautionary move?

2) Are we being told the truth about the President's illness?

3) Should there be concern over the President belonging to at least three higher-risk categories (male; over 70; obese)?

4) At what point should Sections 3 or 4 of the 25th Amendment be activated?


No doubt other topics will occur to you.


We will be particularly strict over trolling / baiting in this thread. For the sake of clarity, I'll now give you some general examples of acceptable and unacceptable behaviour:

1) Regardless of my own political position, I wish the President and First Lady well; my thoughts are with their families. Obviously fine.

2) I disagree fundamentally with the President; his own policies are responsible for the spread of COVID-19 in the United States. I nonetheless hope for his recovery. Fine.

3) I disagree fundamentally with the President; his own policies are responsible for the spread of COVID-19 in the United States. He has no one to blame but himself. It might depend on how ill the president actually is; we'll likely judge this type of post on context.

4) The President's policies are responsible for the spread of COVID-19 in the United States. He has no one to blame but himself, so I don't care if he lives or dies. Almost certainly actionable in the specific context of this thread.

5) I hate Trump. I hope he suffers and dies. Clearly actionable, and frequently ban-worthy.

6) I don't care about this news, or whether or not the President has coronavirus. Not actionable; but then why are you posting here?
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Page » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:27 am

So it is against the rules to express apathy?
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:40 am

Obviously things could go downhill quick, but I feel like if it was currently much more severe than they are letting on someone would be leaking that info.
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:43 am

Is it true that if he goes on a ventilator (which he thankfully has not yet) that his survival chance takes a nosedive? I've heard figures like 90% death rate for old and generally unhealthy people on ventilators.

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Postby Skyhooked » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:50 am

As far as I know, Trump is not young, and Covid is especially dangerous for elderly. However, Trump is not an ordinary guy, and has access to the best medicine USA has to offer. I don't know, what his chances are, and I wonder, who will replace him if it doesn't go well.
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Postby Page » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:55 am

Skyhooked wrote:As far as I know, Trump is not young, and Covid is especially dangerous for elderly. However, Trump is not an ordinary guy, and has access to the best medicine USA has to offer. I don't know, what his chances are, and I wonder, who will replace him if it doesn't go well.


If he does not survive to the election, I do not think it will matter much who the Republican Party nominates. His supporters will be far less enthusiastic about a replacement Republican and millions would stay home. Biden could easily win 35 states or more.
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Postby New haven america » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:07 am

Why does he get 3 threads about him!? What has he done to deserve this much space on the front page?

Page wrote:So it is against the rules to express apathy?

I got warned for stating a obvious fact one time, so yeah, I'd walk on eggshells about this.
Last edited by New haven america on Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Picairn » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:13 am

New haven america wrote:Why does he get 3 threads about him!? What has he done to deserve this much space on the front page?

Part of the reasons he won 2016 is thanks to his ability to attract massive attention with his scandals and crude remarks. He thrives on it.
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Postby Page » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:14 am

Picairn wrote:
New haven america wrote:Why does he get 3 threads about him!? What has he done to deserve this much space on the front page?

Part of the reasons he won 2016 is thanks to his ability to attract massive attention with his scandals and crude remarks. He thrives on it.


Now he has the attention of the entire world.
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Postby Eukaryotic Cells » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:15 am

Albrenia wrote:Is it true that if he goes on a ventilator (which he thankfully has not yet) that his survival chance takes a nosedive? I've heard figures like 90% death rate for old and generally unhealthy people on ventilators.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/m ... story.html

According to this, the overall mortality rate for people who end up on ventilators is probably between 30 and 50 percent. There has been a lot of variation in morality rate estimates (early estimates were very high), but it's not good in any case.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 004457.pdf

This study (referenced in the Washington Post article) found a mortality rate of 35.7% for those who were put on a ventilator, compared to an overall mortality rate of 30.9% for people within the studied cohort (critically ill people admitted to ICU).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 1-0026.pdf

In general, being on a ventilator for a long time can cause its own problems and is associated with more complications.
Last edited by Eukaryotic Cells on Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 am

Eukaryotic Cells wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Is it true that if he goes on a ventilator (which he thankfully has not yet) that his survival chance takes a nosedive? I've heard figures like 90% death rate for old and generally unhealthy people on ventilators.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/m ... story.html

According to this, the overall mortality rate for people who end up on ventilators is probably between 30 and 50 percent. There has been a lot of variation in morality rate estimates (early estimates were very high), but it's not good in any case.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 004457.pdf

This study (referenced in the Washington Post article) found a mortality rate of 35.7%, compared to an overall mortality rate of 30.9% for people within the studied cohort (critically ill people admitted to ICU).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 1-0026.pdf

In general, being on a ventilator for a long time can cause its own problems and is associated with more complications.


Thank you for the detailed response, with links no less. :)

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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:18 am

Page wrote:Now he has the attention of the entire world.

"I have won... but at what cost?"
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Adriatican
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Postby Adriatican » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:22 am

He has been sent to Walter Reed and is currently being cared for by a better, and more highly qualified, staff, than any of us could ever hope to have access to.

He will live, however, if he becomes considerably debilitated, or expires, the constitution provides remedy.
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:36 am

Picairn wrote:
Page wrote:Now he has the attention of the entire world.

"I have won... but at what cost?"

As people pointed out, if he dies before the election he will not lose either.
So I hope he will survive and live a long life.
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Postby North American Imperial State » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:05 am

Albrenia wrote:Is it true that if he goes on a ventilator (which he thankfully has not yet) that his survival chance takes a nosedive? I've heard figures like 90% death rate for old and generally unhealthy people on ventilators.

Yes that is right about the ventilators, not sure on the figures think it is around about that.
Not sure what the protocol is on treatment of COVID-19 is in the USA but in the UK my Prime Minister was hospitalized and put on oxygen, which he recovered.

Trump was giving remdesivir which am not sure if it works or not.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:08 am

New haven america wrote:Why does he get 3 threads about him!? What has he done to deserve this much space on the front page?


He became POTUS. Being one of the most powerful people (if not the) warrants a certain amount of publicity. Or you know, open up an american news website and see how much of the front page is about Trump.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:15 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
New haven america wrote:Why does he get 3 threads about him!? What has he done to deserve this much space on the front page?


He became POTUS. Being one of the most powerful people (if not the) warrants a certain amount of publicity. Or you know, open up an american news website and see how much of the front page is about Trump.


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Barring further developments (he gets really sick, or recovers, or he caught it some odd way) it won't be a long-lasting story, but for the first day I think it's the biggest news story of the year.

Boris Johnson leads a less powerful country, but him catching it was a biggish story.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:34 am

Page wrote:So it is against the rules to express apathy?


No, apathy isn't actionable; but if anyone is genuinely apathetic towards this news, why would they waste time posting in this thread?

All the same, I've added a line to the end of the OP to clarify this point.



Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Barring further developments (he gets really sick, or recovers, or he caught it some odd way) it won't be a long-lasting story, but for the first day I think it's the biggest news story of the year.


If the President recovers quickly, I doubt we'll keep this thread open for long. This is just a personal metric, and not a formal moderation team position, but I would look to the President returning to the White House and making his first public appearance as the point I would look at closing it down again.

But note the conditional 'if'.

An obese 74-year-old man has just been flown to hospital with COVID-19. Since he's in three separate higher- to high-risk groups, then some caution is likely warranted. And given his political role and the timing as regards his political role, some specific discussion is likely.
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:42 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Page wrote:So it is against the rules to express apathy?


No, apathy isn't actionable; but if anyone is genuinely apathetic towards this news, why would they waste time posting in this thread?


Our energy problems would be solved if we could harness the posting power of Apathy Which Must Be Heard. :p
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:56 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:
No, apathy isn't actionable; but if anyone is genuinely apathetic towards this news, why would they waste time posting in this thread?


Our energy problems would be solved if we could harness the posting power of Apathy Which Must Be Heard. :p


It could be called "I Could Care Less". Which as Weird Al teaches us, means you do care - at least a little.

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Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:11 am

Albrenia wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Our energy problems would be solved if we could harness the posting power of Apathy Which Must Be Heard. :p


It could be called "I Could Care Less". Which as Weird Al teaches us, means you do care - at least a little.

Can we have Weird Al as president?
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:11 am

Albrenia wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Our energy problems would be solved if we could harness the posting power of Apathy Which Must Be Heard. :p


It could be called "I Could Care Less". Which as Weird Al teaches us, means you do care - at least a little.


Harvesting the energy could be done with a simple button. "Nukes! Press here if you don't care" and back at the plant the energy of a fusion bomb is harvested!
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:14 am

I wonder if he has already dictated the coroner's report for himself - 6ft 8 of pure muscle with the heart of a corpse half his age.
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Postby Gravlen » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:20 am

2) Are we being told the truth about the President's illness?


It is a huge concern that we can't simply say "Yes" to this. In fact, based on the history of Trump's White House, I think we can say with a great deal of confidence that they are not telling us the truth. The information we're getting through official channels cannot be trusted.
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Postby Heloin » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:22 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:I wonder if he has already dictated the coroner's report for himself - 6ft 8 of pure muscle with the heart of a corpse half his age.

With an amazing tan and flowing locks of golden hair.
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