New Arizona Immigration Law Poll

[MisanthropicPopulism]

You didn't make a point, for crying out loud. You just floated an irrelevant and pointless observation that is not really accurate and wasn't responsive to the post you addressed it to.

I am increasingly unconvinced you even read the question I was answering.

[Muravyets]

You didn't make a point, for crying out loud. You just floated an irrelevant and pointless observation that is not really accurate and wasn't responsive to the post you addressed it to.

I am increasingly unconvinced you even read the question I was answering.

The feeling is mutual. You seem to have ignored more than half the words in my posts, and because of that, I'm not entirely convinced you read the question you were answering.

[Teccor]

Meh, I consider myself a centrist (who doesn't?) and I tend to look at issues from both sides before deciding (I even considered joining the Libertarian party, before I read their platform. They're frikin' anarchists, man!) and I support this bill in Arizona.

Why?

Illegal Immigration is just that: Illegal. Very few Illegals pay taxes, considering they aren't citizens, they take jobs that American citizens could otherwise take, and if they commit a crime, they're rarely caught, much less convicted.

I'm no damn racist, either. I could care less the ethnicity of these people. They could be canadians, columbians or catgirls. If they come across the border illegally, kick 'em out unless they want to register as a U.S. citizen.

[Teccor]

Whine more. God. Here in Germany, maybe in many more places in Europe, anyone age 16+ is required to have a personal ID card on them at all times. Not their drivers license, but an ID with holofoil and all that fancy schmancy stuff. Do the foreigners here complain about it? No. Do the natives here complain about it? No.

What happens when the police want to ID you and you don't have it along? Easy. They ask you where you live and then you all depending on the situation take a merry drive over to your place so you can show them your ID. Or you get escorted to the precinct where you wait until a relative brings it by to properly ID you.

Problem is the US has this thing called the Constitution, and it provides for people not to be searched without probable cause.

So yes, we can bitch all we want. The law says that it's illegal, so hurr durr to any politicians who think otherwise.

Yes, we do have a Constitution. But if you're pulled over for speeding, do officers have to have probable cause to ask you for an ID? Nope. So if you're caught driving a car without a license, selling drugs, or any other illegal practice, no matter how small, police should have a right to card you right there on the spot.

Not much else to say.

[Gift-of-god]

Meh, I consider myself a centrist (who doesn't?) and I tend to look at issues from both sides before deciding (I even considered joining the Libertarian party, before I read their platform. They're frikin' anarchists, man!) and I support this bill in Arizona.

Why?

Illegal Immigration is just that: Illegal. Very few Illegals pay taxes, considering they aren't citizens, they take jobs that American citizens could otherwise take, and if they commit a crime, they're rarely caught, much less convicted.

I'm no damn racist, either. I could care less the ethnicity of these people. They could be canadians, columbians or catgirls. If they come across the border illegally, kick 'em out unless they want to register as a U.S. citizen.

Why do you feel this particular law will be more effective than the current laws?

[Farnhamia]

Meh, I consider myself a centrist (who doesn't?) and I tend to look at issues from both sides before deciding (I even considered joining the Libertarian party, before I read their platform. They're frikin' anarchists, man!) and I support this bill in Arizona.

Why?

Illegal Immigration is just that: Illegal. Very few Illegals pay taxes, considering they aren't citizens, they take jobs that American citizens could otherwise take, and if they commit a crime, they're rarely caught, much less convicted.

I'm no damn racist, either. I could care less the ethnicity of these people. They could be canadians, columbians or catgirls. If they come across the border illegally, kick 'em out unless they want to register as a U.S. citizen.

Illegal immigration was illegal before Arizona decided to make it even more illegal. How does this bill help anything?

Illegals pay sales taxes, at the very least.

They may take jobs Americans would also take and you know why? Because up-standing American employers are willing to hire them for wages that American workers won't take. Very patriotic.

You'll have to provide a source for how illegals are "very rarely caught" when committing crimes, especially since people have been throwing around statistics that would lead you to believe that half the crime in the country is committed by illegals.

[Teccor]

Meh, I consider myself a centrist (who doesn't?) and I tend to look at issues from both sides before deciding (I even considered joining the Libertarian party, before I read their platform. They're frikin' anarchists, man!) and I support this bill in Arizona.

Why?

Illegal Immigration is just that: Illegal. Very few Illegals pay taxes, considering they aren't citizens, they take jobs that American citizens could otherwise take, and if they commit a crime, they're rarely caught, much less convicted.

I'm no damn racist, either. I could care less the ethnicity of these people. They could be canadians, columbians or catgirls. If they come across the border illegally, kick 'em out unless they want to register as a U.S. citizen.

Illegal immigration was illegal before Arizona decided to make it even more illegal. How does this bill help anything?

Illegals pay sales taxes, at the very least.

They may take jobs Americans would also take and you know why? Because up-standing American employers are willing to hire them for wages that American workers won't take. Very patriotic.

You'll have to provide a source for how illegals are "very rarely caught" when committing crimes, especially since people have been throwing around statistics that would lead you to believe that half the crime in the country is committed by illegals.

I agree that employers are also to blame. I support this bill mainly because Illegal Immigration hasn't been cracked down on very much recently, so any step toward further criminalizing it is a step in the right direction, if you ask me. Whenever I see footage of them sprinting across the border in droves, I wish I could get a riot shield and push them back, one by one if necessary.

Building a wall?: Too extreme.
Shooting them?: Way to go, smallmind. Kill people, that's surely the way to go.
Force them out by carding them whenever you want?: Seems good to me.

[Gift-of-god]

....I support this bill mainly because Illegal Immigration hasn't been cracked down on very much recently, so any step toward further criminalizing it is a step in the right direction, if you ask me. ....

If they haven't cracked down on illegal immigration under current laws, why would they crack down with this one?

[Farnhamia]

Meh, I consider myself a centrist (who doesn't?) and I tend to look at issues from both sides before deciding (I even considered joining the Libertarian party, before I read their platform. They're frikin' anarchists, man!) and I support this bill in Arizona.

Why?

Illegal Immigration is just that: Illegal. Very few Illegals pay taxes, considering they aren't citizens, they take jobs that American citizens could otherwise take, and if they commit a crime, they're rarely caught, much less convicted.

I'm no damn racist, either. I could care less the ethnicity of these people. They could be canadians, columbians or catgirls. If they come across the border illegally, kick 'em out unless they want to register as a U.S. citizen.

Illegal immigration was illegal before Arizona decided to make it even more illegal. How does this bill help anything?

Illegals pay sales taxes, at the very least.

They may take jobs Americans would also take and you know why? Because up-standing American employers are willing to hire them for wages that American workers won't take. Very patriotic.

You'll have to provide a source for how illegals are "very rarely caught" when committing crimes, especially since people have been throwing around statistics that would lead you to believe that half the crime in the country is committed by illegals.

I agree that employers are also to blame. I support this bill mainly because Illegal Immigration hasn't been cracked down on very much recently, so any step toward further criminalizing it is a step in the right direction, if you ask me. Whenever I see footage of them sprinting across the border in droves, I wish I could get a riot shield and push them back, one by one if necessary.

Building a wall?: Too extreme.
Shooting them?: Way to go, smallmind. Kill people, that's surely the way to go.
Force them out by carding them whenever you want?: Seems good to me.

The last time a President tried to address this, he was savaged by the right-wing of his own party and the efforts collapsed in Congress. Deporting 11,000,000 people is kind of hard, wouldn't you think? Bush wanted to institute a guest worker program but got shot down. All this law in Arizona does is give tacit approval to racial profiling and make some angry people feel better. I can pretty much guarantee it will do little to reduce the number of illegals in Arizona.

[Farnhamia]

....I support this bill mainly because Illegal Immigration hasn't been cracked down on very much recently, so any step toward further criminalizing it is a step in the right direction, if you ask me. ....

If they haven't cracked down on illegal immigration under current laws, why would they crack down with this one?

Because they hate doing anything the Feds tell them to do but love it when it's an example of "states' rights"?

[Muravyets]

Whine more. God. Here in Germany, maybe in many more places in Europe, anyone age 16+ is required to have a personal ID card on them at all times. Not their drivers license, but an ID with holofoil and all that fancy schmancy stuff. Do the foreigners here complain about it? No. Do the natives here complain about it? No.

What happens when the police want to ID you and you don't have it along? Easy. They ask you where you live and then you all depending on the situation take a merry drive over to your place so you can show them your ID. Or you get escorted to the precinct where you wait until a relative brings it by to properly ID you.

Problem is the US has this thing called the Constitution, and it provides for people not to be searched without probable cause.

So yes, we can bitch all we want. The law says that it's illegal, so hurr durr to any politicians who think otherwise.

Yes, we do have a Constitution. But if you're pulled over for speeding, do officers have to have probable cause to ask you for an ID? Nope. So if you're caught driving a car without a license, selling drugs, or any other illegal practice, no matter how small, police should have a right to card you right there on the spot.

Not much else to say.

Other than to point out that you haven't been paying attention. The Arizona law is not limited to checking citizenship during traffic stops.

[Muravyets]

<snip>
Building a wall?: Too extreme.
Shooting them?: Way to go, smallmind. Kill people, that's surely the way to go.
Force them out by carding them whenever you want?: Seems good to me.

By carding WHO whenever you want? Here we go yet again: Look at a street full of people. Tell me which ones are here illegally. Tell me which ones you THINK are here illegally. Tell me how you're going to pick who to card and who to assume is okay.

[Arkinesia]

Whine more. God. Here in Germany, maybe in many more places in Europe, anyone age 16+ is required to have a personal ID card on them at all times. Not their drivers license, but an ID with holofoil and all that fancy schmancy stuff. Do the foreigners here complain about it? No. Do the natives here complain about it? No.

What happens when the police want to ID you and you don't have it along? Easy. They ask you where you live and then you all depending on the situation take a merry drive over to your place so you can show them your ID. Or you get escorted to the precinct where you wait until a relative brings it by to properly ID you.

Problem is the US has this thing called the Constitution, and it provides for people not to be searched without probable cause.

So yes, we can bitch all we want. The law says that it's illegal, so hurr durr to any politicians who think otherwise.

Yes, we do have a Constitution. But if you're pulled over for speeding, do officers have to have probable cause to ask you for an ID? Nope. So if you're caught driving a car without a license, selling drugs, or any other illegal practice, no matter how small, police should have a right to card you right there on the spot.

Not much else to say.

No, there is a probable cause. You were breaking the law and need to be identified so that your criminal record can be updated in due course.

Thinking that you're really clever doesn't make you clever.

[Whole Conviction]

The last time a President tried to address this, he was savaged by the right-wing of his own party and the efforts collapsed in Congress. Deporting 11,000,000 people is kind of hard, wouldn't you think? Bush wanted to institute a guest worker program but got shot down. All this law in Arizona does is give tacit approval to racial profiling and make some angry people feel better. I can pretty much guarantee it will do little to reduce the number of illegals in Arizona.

That was awesome. Start a war? Fine. Wiretap citizens? No problem. Violate POW laws? Awesome, we've always wanted that. Legalise existing undocumented workers? HELL NO! Man, this Bush has really lost the plot, he's not really a conservative. Who does he think he is, a unitary executive?

[JJ Place]

Look, you want open borders and everyone to just come in, that sounds fun an all, but then the country collapses,

What? How the heck do we arrive at that conclusion? That's in line with one of Great Nepal's flowcharts:

Here is flow chart:-
1. Gay marriage is legal
2. Most people start to do Gay marriage
3. they cant produce children
4. Population will decline.
5. Population continues to decline now at worrying rate.
6. There are very less people left to continue human civilization.
7. Human life extincts.

How do you possibly arrive at the conclusion that opening up our borders will immediatly lead our country to collapse? What are you possibly thinking?

there is no real loyalty anymore to the United States of America, they don't have a respect for it. If every immigrant came here and was illegal but had nothing but patriotism to the American dream and showed loyalty to this nation I would not have a problem with it, but that's a fantasy.

Don't have respect for it? This is where your entirly wrong, North Calaveras. If immigrants had no respect for the United States, do you think they'd chose to move here? Why else other than having a great amount of respect for the United States would anyone want to come here? And, if you want to talk about loyalty, why would immigrants deside to stay here if they are not loyal to the U.S.? Why not just leave. Go somewhere else, somewhere they feel more loyal? This fantasy you speak of would be a nightmare; pledging blind patritism to a country? Patriotism to the United States isn't true if it's forced; nor if it's blind. You have to understand, truly feel why your a patriot to be a true patriot; and as for the American Dream. The American Dream is threatened right now. Threatened greatly. It's threatned by those who atempt to shut down the American Dream, those who, would say, erect a wall around our nation in attempts to keep people out, simply because they are different from us, and for no real reason other than that. That, is the true threat to the American Dream. For all of us.

[Underworld City]

Too be honest I like the law! I think they should have done it a long time ago. But being interested in this type of political argument I'd like to see what others think...

[Zeppy]

This deserves to be in NSG, but this would be a copycat thread in NSG.
So automatic lock.

[Andaluciae]

White Anglo-Saxon from Ohio--why should I care?

(This is not a flippant blow-off, rather a genuine request for more reasoning behind support for, and opposition to the bill)

[Muravyets]

Too be honest I like the law! I think they should have done it a long time ago. But being interested in this type of political argument I'd like to see what others think...

If you're interested in this type of political argument, why haven't you read the 57 pages of what others think that have already been posted?

[Muravyets]

White Anglo-Saxon from Ohio--why should I care?

(This is not a flippant blow-off, rather a genuine request for more reasoning behind support for, and opposition to the bill)

Because there are bigots with badges who hate you guys, too. That old saying about how if one group is not safe, then no group is safe is what this is about. You allow the power to abuse targeted groups to be created and instituted in law, and that same power will be there to be used against you when power changes hands, when someone who doesn't like you gets to be in charge of the place you live.

[Soheran]

White Anglo-Saxon from Ohio--why should I care?

You probably have no self-interested reason. The police are not going to turn on middle-class white people anytime soon.

However, if you care about justice, if you care about a society that puts the burden of proof on the state rather than on individuals, if you care about treating human beings, "illegal" or otherwise, with respect and humanity, then you should oppose a law that expands the powers of the police to target and harass minority groups and criminalize peaceful people doing no harm.

[New Chalcedon]

White Anglo-Saxon from Ohio--why should I care?

(This is not a flippant blow-off, rather a genuine request for more reasoning behind support for, and opposition to the bill)

Tyranny inflicted upon one person, or group, threatens the liberty of all.

First, the came for the Communists;
I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN, they came for the Jews;
I didn't speak up, for I wasn't a Jew.

THEN, they came for the trade unionists;
I didn't speak up: I wasn't a trade unionist.

Finally, they came for me;
By that time, no-one remained to speak up.

Fascism works by slow increments, threatening first a marginal liberty of an unpopular and despised group. Then it expands, both the depth and breadth of its oppression, one small step at a time, claiming all the while that the oppression is necessary, and that those who object do not love their nation. Then, by the time people have woken up, it is too late. There will forever be people who desire power over others, always for ends they believe to be noble; whilst some must lead, their power to do harm in the name of good must be constantly checked, and the best mechanism to do this is a populace that is well-informed of the actions of its leaders.

Eternal vigilance is the price of Liberty. - Wendell Phillips
He who would trade essential liberties for a little temporary security will deserve neither, and eventually lose both. - Benjamin Franklin.

[Free Soviets]

i'll just leave this here:

http://gawker.com/5529952/arizona-repub ... upremacist

arizona state senate majority leader chuck gray follows stormfront on twitter.

[Israslovakahzerbajan]

i'll just leave this here:

http://gawker.com/5529952/arizona-repub ... upremacist

arizona state senate majority leader chuck gray follows stormfront on twitter.

The background is very drab.

[Soheran]

arizona state senate majority leader chuck gray follows stormfront on twitter.

The latest Stormfront update shown in that screenshot is an added bonus.