New Arizona Immigration Law Poll

[Muravyets]

Well they have to be called "illegal" immigrants for something.

you mean sneaking into a nation is okay with you?

Sneaking into a nation is not okay.

Then how should we punish someone sneaking into a nation?

If they remain illegal when caught, deport them.

Which is what the federal laws we already have do. The argument is over how we catch them. A small group of well-connected racists in Arizona have decided that the best way is to just assume that someone is illegal by how they look and on the basis of that, ship any of them who can't wave a green card at you (which a citizen wouldn't be able to do) "back" to Mexico (thus, obviously, assuming that all illegal immigrants will be from Mexico). An encouragingly high number of Americans think that's totally fucked up.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Look, you want open borders and everyone to just come in, that sounds fun an all, but then the country collapses, there is no real loyalty anymore to the United States of America, they don't have a respect for it. If every immigrant came here and was illegal but had nothing but patriotism to the American dream and showed loyalty to this nation I would not have a problem with it, but that's a fantasy.

I could raise several issues with your UN-AMERICAN attitude and statements, but this talk of open borders is a red herring. I never advocated them. What I said was (1) the choice between laws like AZ's SB 1070 and open borders is a false dichotomy and (2), if it wasn't, I'd rather live in a nation that respected the U.S. Constitution and equality of persons than a racist fortress.

[The Southern Dictators]

Well they have to be called "illegal" immigrants for something.

you mean sneaking into a nation is okay with you?

Sneaking into a nation is not okay.

Then how should we punish someone sneaking into a nation?

If they remain illegal when caught, deport them.

Which is what the federal laws we already have do. The argument is over how we catch them. A small group of well-connected racists in Arizona have decided that the best way is to just assume that someone is illegal by how they look and on the basis of that, ship any of them who can't wave a green card at you (which a citizen wouldn't be able to do) "back" to Mexico (thus, obviously, assuming that all illegal immigrants will be from Mexico). An encouragingly high number of Americans think that's totally fucked up.

Catch them with the census. Which is what happened to my neighbors.

[Muravyets]

Well they have to be called "illegal" immigrants for something.

you mean sneaking into a nation is okay with you?

Sneaking into a nation is not okay.

Then how should we punish someone sneaking into a nation?

If they remain illegal when caught, deport them.

Which is what the federal laws we already have do. The argument is over how we catch them. A small group of well-connected racists in Arizona have decided that the best way is to just assume that someone is illegal by how they look and on the basis of that, ship any of them who can't wave a green card at you (which a citizen wouldn't be able to do) "back" to Mexico (thus, obviously, assuming that all illegal immigrants will be from Mexico). An encouragingly high number of Americans think that's totally fucked up.

Catch them with the census. Which is what happened to my neighbors.

Wait -- are you telling me that it could then be considered suspicious if someone refused to cooperate with the Census, and we could just round those people up and toss them out? Oh that's too good a scenario -- it can't be true.

[The Southern Dictators]

Well they have to be called "illegal" immigrants for something.

you mean sneaking into a nation is okay with you?

Sneaking into a nation is not okay.

Then how should we punish someone sneaking into a nation?

If they remain illegal when caught, deport them.

Which is what the federal laws we already have do. The argument is over how we catch them. A small group of well-connected racists in Arizona have decided that the best way is to just assume that someone is illegal by how they look and on the basis of that, ship any of them who can't wave a green card at you (which a citizen wouldn't be able to do) "back" to Mexico (thus, obviously, assuming that all illegal immigrants will be from Mexico). An encouragingly high number of Americans think that's totally fucked up.

Catch them with the census. Which is what happened to my neighbors.

Wait -- are you telling me that it could then be considered suspicious if someone refused to cooperate with the Census, and we could just round those people up and toss them out? Oh that's too good a scenario -- it can't be true.

No. When my neighbors mailed back their census sheets, I guess the whole family were wanted illegals for some reason. The next morning immigration came and picked them up.

[Muravyets]

Well they have to be called "illegal" immigrants for something.

you mean sneaking into a nation is okay with you?

Sneaking into a nation is not okay.

Then how should we punish someone sneaking into a nation?

If they remain illegal when caught, deport them.

Which is what the federal laws we already have do. The argument is over how we catch them. A small group of well-connected racists in Arizona have decided that the best way is to just assume that someone is illegal by how they look and on the basis of that, ship any of them who can't wave a green card at you (which a citizen wouldn't be able to do) "back" to Mexico (thus, obviously, assuming that all illegal immigrants will be from Mexico). An encouragingly high number of Americans think that's totally fucked up.

Catch them with the census. Which is what happened to my neighbors.

Wait -- are you telling me that it could then be considered suspicious if someone refused to cooperate with the Census, and we could just round those people up and toss them out? Oh that's too good a scenario -- it can't be true.

No. When my neighbors mailed back their census sheets, I guess the whole family were wanted illegals for some reason. The next morning immigration came and picked them up.

I know that's what you meant, but think about it. If we decide to hunt illegal immigrants via the census, then refusing to fill out the census (which is required by law under the Constitution) would be a suspicious activity, right? And just think of the people we could rid ourselves of that way -- all those anti-census dumbasses... *indulges in guilty pleasure fantasizing for a moment* Ah, but no, that would be wrong of us.

[The Southern Dictators]

Well they have to be called "illegal" immigrants for something.

you mean sneaking into a nation is okay with you?

Sneaking into a nation is not okay.

Then how should we punish someone sneaking into a nation?

If they remain illegal when caught, deport them.

Which is what the federal laws we already have do. The argument is over how we catch them. A small group of well-connected racists in Arizona have decided that the best way is to just assume that someone is illegal by how they look and on the basis of that, ship any of them who can't wave a green card at you (which a citizen wouldn't be able to do) "back" to Mexico (thus, obviously, assuming that all illegal immigrants will be from Mexico). An encouragingly high number of Americans think that's totally fucked up.

Catch them with the census. Which is what happened to my neighbors.

Wait -- are you telling me that it could then be considered suspicious if someone refused to cooperate with the Census, and we could just round those people up and toss them out? Oh that's too good a scenario -- it can't be true.

No. When my neighbors mailed back their census sheets, I guess the whole family were wanted illegals for some reason. The next morning immigration came and picked them up.

I know that's what you meant, but think about it. If we decide to hunt illegal immigrants via the census, then refusing to fill out the census (which is required by law under the Constitution) would be a suspicious activity, right? And just think of the people we could rid ourselves of that way -- all those anti-census dumbasses... *indulges in guilty pleasure fantasizing for a moment* Ah, but no, that would be wrong of us.

Well as long as the illegals don't know how they got caught...the HUNT !
*lights a torch*
What other ways other than the census can be used to track down illegals ?

[Muravyets]

Well as long as the illegals don't know how they got caught...the HUNT !
*lights a torch*
What other ways other than the census can be used to track down illegals ?

None, I would think, since the census does not ask for proof of citizenship anyway. I think the arrest might have been just a coincidence to the census.

[The Southern Dictators]

Well as long as the illegals don't know how they got caught...the HUNT !
*lights a torch*
What other ways other than the census can be used to track down illegals ?

None, I would think, since the census does not ask for proof of citizenship anyway. I think the arrest might have been just a coincidence to the census.

Well they must of known somehow. I sure didn't know they were illegal. They were on some "wanted illegals" list. I just know that they were caught through the census.

[North Calaveras]

The thing about that bill isn't that its aim is to criminalize illegal immigration. That makes sense. And if all it was was a measure which stated that if the cops pull you over for another offense, and ask you to appear in court to prove your citizenship, then we're having a conversation. (Not that I would be 100% for that, but at least its reasonable) However, I can't have you walking over to someone with dark skin and demanding papers at 7-11. Thats Schutzstaffel type stuff. And anyway, how're they determining who is "suspicious" of being eere illegally? Are they darting around street corners, with shifty eyes? Of course not, its racial profiling. Thats ballsy, especially in a state where, quite literally, the US-Mexico border crossed them overnight a hundred years ago. Can't do it

If you can't single anybody out than we might as well give up on investigating any kind of illegal immigration since they could just play a race card.

[Jaunty tunes]

There are some signs of a person who is not legal in your country. The biggest one is the inability to speak English as if someone was educated or worked in the US it is very likely some English is required. As long as the request is simple such as one piece of ID like a drivers licence then I think it is alright. There needs to be some way of identifying people who are illegally in the country and if someone appears to be an illegal person then a few questions need to be asked.
When I travel I always know where my passport is. I could easily show that to the police with the correct visa stamp in the US. It is not hard and does not need to take much time at all. The only worry would be fake ID's. But the cops could catch onto them when a fake ID is known and if suspicious just take one minute more to look in the data base.
If there are local police it would be even easier to identify illegal migrants and the same legal individuals would not be asked all the time.

[The REAL Glasers]

There are some signs of a person who is not legal in your country. The biggest one is the inability to speak English as if someone was educated or worked in the US it is very likely some English is required. As long as the request is simple such as one piece of ID like a drivers licence then I think it is alright. There needs to be some way of identifying people who are illegally in the country and if someone appears to be an illegal person then a few questions need to be asked.
When I travel I always know where my passport is. I could easily show that to the police with the correct visa stamp in the US. It is not hard and does not need to take much time at all. The only worry would be fake ID's. But the cops could catch onto them when a fake ID is known and if suspicious just take one minute more to look in the data base.
If there are local police it would be even easier to identify illegal migrants and the same legal individuals would not be asked all the time.

So first generation immigrants that don't yet know the language are completely impossible, as are political refugees?

I almost always have my ID on me, except for a few notable exceptions. I was at a concert last week and only brought my ticket and cash, coincidentally, there was an altercation outside the venue where the police nearly got involved. If they did, and I had lived in AZ, who's to say they couldn't have just randomly asked us all for our IDs to find out if we were illegals? It shouldn't be a requirement for us to carry around identification. Is it convenient? Yes. Necessary, hell no.

[North Calaveras]

There are some signs of a person who is not legal in your country. The biggest one is the inability to speak English as if someone was educated or worked in the US it is very likely some English is required. As long as the request is simple such as one piece of ID like a drivers licence then I think it is alright. There needs to be some way of identifying people who are illegally in the country and if someone appears to be an illegal person then a few questions need to be asked.
When I travel I always know where my passport is. I could easily show that to the police with the correct visa stamp in the US. It is not hard and does not need to take much time at all. The only worry would be fake ID's. But the cops could catch onto them when a fake ID is known and if suspicious just take one minute more to look in the data base.
If there are local police it would be even easier to identify illegal migrants and the same legal individuals would not be asked all the time.

So first generation immigrants that don't yet know the language are completely impossible, as are political refugees?

I almost always have my ID on me, except for a few notable exceptions. I was at a concert last week and only brought my ticket and cash, coincidentally, there was an altercation outside the venue where the police nearly got involved. If they did, and I had lived in AZ, who's to say they couldn't have just randomly asked us all for our IDs to find out if we were illegals? It shouldn't be a requirement for us to carry around identification. Is it convenient? Yes. Necessary, hell no.

Then you should be able to show them, they will put your name on a list and the next time it happens they can just ring your name up through the cops computer in car and he will let you go.

[The REAL Glasers]

There are some signs of a person who is not legal in your country. The biggest one is the inability to speak English as if someone was educated or worked in the US it is very likely some English is required. As long as the request is simple such as one piece of ID like a drivers licence then I think it is alright. There needs to be some way of identifying people who are illegally in the country and if someone appears to be an illegal person then a few questions need to be asked.
When I travel I always know where my passport is. I could easily show that to the police with the correct visa stamp in the US. It is not hard and does not need to take much time at all. The only worry would be fake ID's. But the cops could catch onto them when a fake ID is known and if suspicious just take one minute more to look in the data base.
If there are local police it would be even easier to identify illegal migrants and the same legal individuals would not be asked all the time.

So first generation immigrants that don't yet know the language are completely impossible, as are political refugees?

I almost always have my ID on me, except for a few notable exceptions. I was at a concert last week and only brought my ticket and cash, coincidentally, there was an altercation outside the venue where the police nearly got involved. If they did, and I had lived in AZ, who's to say they couldn't have just randomly asked us all for our IDs to find out if we were illegals? It shouldn't be a requirement for us to carry around identification. Is it convenient? Yes. Necessary, hell no.

Then you should be able to show them, they will put your name on a list and the next time it happens they can just ring your name up through the cops computer in car and he will let you go.

Except the venue was within cycling from my place of residence, which I had left my wallet at, and a responsible officer sure as hell would not have let me cycle back to my place of residence just to possibly obtain something that may prove I'm not illegal, they'd much rather detain me by law, since that's their job.

[North Calaveras]

There are some signs of a person who is not legal in your country. The biggest one is the inability to speak English as if someone was educated or worked in the US it is very likely some English is required. As long as the request is simple such as one piece of ID like a drivers licence then I think it is alright. There needs to be some way of identifying people who are illegally in the country and if someone appears to be an illegal person then a few questions need to be asked.
When I travel I always know where my passport is. I could easily show that to the police with the correct visa stamp in the US. It is not hard and does not need to take much time at all. The only worry would be fake ID's. But the cops could catch onto them when a fake ID is known and if suspicious just take one minute more to look in the data base.
If there are local police it would be even easier to identify illegal migrants and the same legal individuals would not be asked all the time.

So first generation immigrants that don't yet know the language are completely impossible, as are political refugees?

I almost always have my ID on me, except for a few notable exceptions. I was at a concert last week and only brought my ticket and cash, coincidentally, there was an altercation outside the venue where the police nearly got involved. If they did, and I had lived in AZ, who's to say they couldn't have just randomly asked us all for our IDs to find out if we were illegals? It shouldn't be a requirement for us to carry around identification. Is it convenient? Yes. Necessary, hell no.

Then you should be able to show them, they will put your name on a list and the next time it happens they can just ring your name up through the cops computer in car and he will let you go.

Except the venue was within cycling from my place of residence, which I had left my wallet at, and a responsible officer sure as hell would not have let me cycle back to my place of residence just to possibly obtain something that may prove I'm not illegal, they'd much rather detain me by law, since that's their job.

so you deal with te inconvenience one time in your life, you should probably go put yourself on the list that way you would avoid it.

[The REAL Glasers]

Because this has nothing to do with my constitutional rights violated.

And what is the mythical list of which you speak?

[North Calaveras]

Because this has nothing to do with my constitutional rights violated.

And what is the mythical list of which you speak?

I would assume you would be put on a list so they don't have to recheck you over and over again.

[Whole Conviction]

Because this has nothing to do with my constitutional rights violated.

And what is the mythical list of which you speak?

I would assume you would be put on a list so they don't have to recheck you over and over again.

One would assume.

One would be wrong.

[Pope Joan]

Arizona Iced Tea is suffering the effects of a boycott by angry consumers.

Apparently social consciousness and tea drinking go together.

They are now busily working to let the world know that they have nothing to do with the American Southwest; they're really all nice people from Long Island.

[Natapoc]

Arizona Iced Tea is suffering the effects of a boycott by angry consumers.

Apparently social consciousness and tea drinking go together.

They are now busily working to let the world know that they have nothing to do with the American Southwest; they're really all nice people from Long Island.

I've heard of this. Is it actually real? I was under the impression everyone knew they were not really from Arizona.

[Pope Joan]

Arizona Iced Tea is suffering the effects of a boycott by angry consumers.

Apparently social consciousness and tea drinking go together.

They are now busily working to let the world know that they have nothing to do with the American Southwest; they're really all nice people from Long Island.

I've heard of this. Is it actually real? I was under the impression everyone knew they were not really from Arizona.

I heard it on NPR's "All Things Considered", so I have no notion whether or not it may be factual.

[Muravyets]

Well as long as the illegals don't know how they got caught...the HUNT !
*lights a torch*
What other ways other than the census can be used to track down illegals ?

None, I would think, since the census does not ask for proof of citizenship anyway. I think the arrest might have been just a coincidence to the census.

Well they must of known somehow. I sure didn't know they were illegal. They were on some "wanted illegals" list. I just know that they were caught through the census.

Right, because if you didn't know it, there's no way the cops and/or immigration authorities could have known it. What -- you mean you couldn't tell just by looking at them, like the AZ law says you should?!

[Muravyets]

The thing about that bill isn't that its aim is to criminalize illegal immigration. That makes sense. And if all it was was a measure which stated that if the cops pull you over for another offense, and ask you to appear in court to prove your citizenship, then we're having a conversation. (Not that I would be 100% for that, but at least its reasonable) However, I can't have you walking over to someone with dark skin and demanding papers at 7-11. Thats Schutzstaffel type stuff. And anyway, how're they determining who is "suspicious" of being eere illegally? Are they darting around street corners, with shifty eyes? Of course not, its racial profiling. Thats ballsy, especially in a state where, quite literally, the US-Mexico border crossed them overnight a hundred years ago. Can't do it

If you can't single anybody out than we might as well give up on investigating any kind of illegal immigration since they could just play a race card.

So, it's your idea that there is no law without racism and no order with picking out a scapegoat?

[Muravyets]

There are some signs of a person who is not legal in your country. The biggest one is the inability to speak English as if someone was educated or worked in the US it is very likely some English is required. As long as the request is simple such as one piece of ID like a drivers licence then I think it is alright. There needs to be some way of identifying people who are illegally in the country and if someone appears to be an illegal person then a few questions need to be asked.
When I travel I always know where my passport is. I could easily show that to the police with the correct visa stamp in the US. It is not hard and does not need to take much time at all. The only worry would be fake ID's. But the cops could catch onto them when a fake ID is known and if suspicious just take one minute more to look in the data base.
If there are local police it would be even easier to identify illegal migrants and the same legal individuals would not be asked all the time.

Gods, the level of ignorant in your post...

1. There is no language requirement in the US.
2. Many native born Americans are so un-functional in English you'd take them for non-native speakers anyway.
3. New legal immigrants would not be fluent in English yet, even when they get their citizenship.
4. Immigrants can come from English-speaking countries, and even might be here illegally.
5. Citizens do not have to carry their passport to move around inside their own country, even if they're not English-fluent.
6. Driver's license =/= proof of citizenship or legal residency.
7. Read the fucking thread.

[Muravyets]

Because this has nothing to do with my constitutional rights violated.

And what is the mythical list of which you speak?

Oh, it's the big Giant Compendium of Who's OK To Be Here. It lists everyone who ever existed, does exist and ever will and has either a little green check or a big red X next to their names. God wrote it, and every cop gets one with his gun and his shield.