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The NFL Thread V3: 2022! It's Happening!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Where's OBJ signing?

Green Bay Packers
10
13%
New York Giants
13
16%
LA Rams
9
11%
Buffalo Bills
17
21%
No one! Poor guy.
31
39%
 
Total votes : 80

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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:12 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:Ah.
So this is currently professional football's (i use that phrase very loosely) carnival freak sideshow. Pathetic. Why do the announcers HAVE to scream like Howard Dean when there's a TD?

Well, when one plays for the Zappers you know you're career is in the crapper. And furthermore, if you play for the Beasts your girlfriend probably smells like yeast. :eek:

You know what would make this sport better? If fans used donations to control the teams instead of voting. We should form our own league as an experiment to prove this. I'll see myself out.

And I swear Zappers is the only decent team name of the lot...


We could pay them in bank from our card game. Then Koem Kab could call all the plays. I'll also see myself out, in a minute.

No home towns as far as I can see. As if.

There's not much of a competition on the names imo, but yeah it's probably the best one. Maybe the full name oughta be Bug Zappers since guys like Manziel are pests.
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Shazbotdom
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Postby Shazbotdom » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:29 pm



That looks like the field is even smaller than the goddamn Arena Football field.


Nah...not impressed.
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Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:33 pm

Rams + Stafford = Super Bowl
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Ranoria
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Postby Ranoria » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:59 pm

Jabberwocky wrote:Rams + Stafford = Super Bowl

Image
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Postby Jerzylvania » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:51 am

Jabberwocky wrote:Rams + Stafford = Super Bowl

How about an NFC Championship game with the Rams and Bucs? The Rams looking for revenge against Tom Brady for their Super Bowl loss. I'd wish them luck.
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Postby Idzequitch » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:52 pm

Former Chargers and Bucs WR Vincent Jackson was found dead in a hotel room in Florida. His desth is under investigation. Jackson was 38.

So sad.
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Postby Luminesa » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:36 pm

Idzequitch wrote:Former Chargers and Bucs WR Vincent Jackson was found dead in a hotel room in Florida. His desth is under investigation. Jackson was 38.

So sad.

WHAT?! Oh my gosh...

Absolutely INCREDIBLE player, amazing to watch. But obviously he was also a human being, and we forget that. I have a bad feeling this was a suicide, until the autopsy report comes out. Many of us fans never knew what happened behind those closed doors, but I hope you are at peace. RIP.
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Postby Luminesa » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:57 pm

Very good news on the other hand, the little girl hit by Britt Reid is finally awake, according to the latest update on the GoFundMe.
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and the greatest is love."
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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:20 am

Luminesa wrote:Very good news on the other hand, the little girl hit by Britt Reid is finally awake, according to the latest update on the GoFundMe.

It's nice to hear some good news for a change. Terrible about VIncent Jackson though.

BTW, stay warm Lum! That cold air and precip will pass.
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Shazbotdom
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Postby Shazbotdom » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:56 pm

Jerzylvania wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Very good news on the other hand, the little girl hit by Britt Reid is finally awake, according to the latest update on the GoFundMe.

It's nice to hear some good news for a change. Terrible about VIncent Jackson though.

BTW, stay warm Lum! That cold air and precip will pass.


Hey, now. She's not the only one down here freezing her ass off. :rofl:
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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:26 am

Very striking article about the lack of ANY sort of coverage on the Britt Reid accident before, during, or after the Super Bowl.

While I didn’t pay that close attention to the commentary during the game, I did notice they never once mentioned the Britt Reid accident and how it might affect the Chiefs. I remember telling my mother on the way to church, “I have a bad feeling. There’s no way they’re gonna be able to concentrate today.” Everyone knew it happened. It was very obvious that Andy Reid was not in his normal mindset during the game. Having already lost a kid to a drug overdose, seeing another one recklessly endanger the life of a child-WHILE DRUNK-probably took his mind entirely from the game.

So why did nobody, and I mean NOBODY, talk about it? We have discussed tragedies during big games. Brett Favre losing his father before that legendary Monday Night Game is a story everyone remembers, Pack fan or not. Marquise Goodwin losing his baby boy hours before a game, only for him to get one of the best TDs he’s ever gotten, was a story that tugged many hearts. Millions of people watched him cry in the endzone. The NFL has never been one to stray from tragic stories. So what was the deal?

Did they want to downplay the tragedy to make it look like it wasn’t that big a deal, and the Chiefs just suddenly collapsed? Did nobody genuinely ask Andy Reid how he was doing, when he seemed to completely forget how to coach? Are the Chiefs being sued and trying not to talk about it? There’s no much said with the silence, what exactly made everyone act like this never happened?
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
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"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:30 am

Jerzylvania wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Very good news on the other hand, the little girl hit by Britt Reid is finally awake, according to the latest update on the GoFundMe.

It's nice to hear some good news for a change. Terrible about VIncent Jackson though.

BTW, stay warm Lum! That cold air and precip will pass.

No worries, I been staying warm inside with my fuzzy PJs and my cat. And lots of hot beverages. But thank you!
Last edited by Luminesa on Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:31 am

Shazbotdom wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:It's nice to hear some good news for a change. Terrible about VIncent Jackson though.

BTW, stay warm Lum! That cold air and precip will pass.


Hey, now. She's not the only one down here freezing her ass off. :rofl:

You stay warm too! :hug:
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

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Kohr
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Postby Kohr » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:22 am

Luminesa wrote:Very striking article about the lack of ANY sort of coverage on the Britt Reid accident before, during, or after the Super Bowl.

While I didn’t pay that close attention to the commentary during the game, I did notice they never once mentioned the Britt Reid accident and how it might affect the Chiefs. I remember telling my mother on the way to church, “I have a bad feeling. There’s no way they’re gonna be able to concentrate today.” Everyone knew it happened. It was very obvious that Andy Reid was not in his normal mindset during the game. Having already lost a kid to a drug overdose, seeing another one recklessly endanger the life of a child-WHILE DRUNK-probably took his mind entirely from the game.

So why did nobody, and I mean NOBODY, talk about it? We have discussed tragedies during big games. Brett Favre losing his father before that legendary Monday Night Game is a story everyone remembers, Pack fan or not. Marquise Goodwin losing his baby boy hours before a game, only for him to get one of the best TDs he’s ever gotten, was a story that tugged many hearts. Millions of people watched him cry in the endzone. The NFL has never been one to stray from tragic stories. So what was the deal?

Did they want to downplay the tragedy to make it look like it wasn’t that big a deal, and the Chiefs just suddenly collapsed? Did nobody genuinely ask Andy Reid how he was doing, when he seemed to completely forget how to coach? Are the Chiefs being sued and trying not to talk about it? There’s no much said with the silence, what exactly made everyone act like this never happened?

I would say that those other tragedies aren't quite a strong enough comparison to what happened with Britt Reid. This wasn't a family member of a player dying. This was someone on the coaching staff nearly killing a 5-year old. That reflects a lot more poorly on the league than, say, a player's dad passing away.

Second, I think that the article's author should have just come out and said what he wanted to say instead of beating around the bush: he thinks it was a moral failure on the part of CBS to not mention the reckless irresponsibility of Britt Reid. I honestly don't think that author cared about its impact on the game itself that much, even though that's how he structured his piece. And he's probably right. I do understand not wanting to harp on that story during the biggest media event on earth, but if someone had just said something like "don't drink and drive," even if it was during the pre or post game coverage, that would have been enough for me.

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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:35 am

Luminesa wrote:Very striking article about the lack of ANY sort of coverage on the Britt Reid accident before, during, or after the Super Bowl.

While I didn’t pay that close attention to the commentary during the game, I did notice they never once mentioned the Britt Reid accident and how it might affect the Chiefs. I remember telling my mother on the way to church, “I have a bad feeling. There’s no way they’re gonna be able to concentrate today.” Everyone knew it happened. It was very obvious that Andy Reid was not in his normal mindset during the game. Having already lost a kid to a drug overdose, seeing another one recklessly endanger the life of a child-WHILE DRUNK-probably took his mind entirely from the game.

So why did nobody, and I mean NOBODY, talk about it? We have discussed tragedies during big games. Brett Favre losing his father before that legendary Monday Night Game is a story everyone remembers, Pack fan or not. Marquise Goodwin losing his baby boy hours before a game, only for him to get one of the best TDs he’s ever gotten, was a story that tugged many hearts. Millions of people watched him cry in the endzone. The NFL has never been one to stray from tragic stories. So what was the deal?

Did they want to downplay the tragedy to make it look like it wasn’t that big a deal, and the Chiefs just suddenly collapsed? Did nobody genuinely ask Andy Reid how he was doing, when he seemed to completely forget how to coach? Are the Chiefs being sued and trying not to talk about it? There’s no much said with the silence, what exactly made everyone act like this never happened?


There's a difference between the two tragic stories you mention and the Britt Reid caused tragedy. Causation. An employee of the Chiefs and the NFL did a heinous thing, the other two were natural happenstance. The league and CBS covered this crime up instead of covering it. You see, that's the long standing and dishonorable tradition of what wealthy self serving bastards do in a situation like this. And they have no shame in doing it whatsoever. They are disgusting.
Last edited by Jerzylvania on Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:44 am

Jerzylvania wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Very striking article about the lack of ANY sort of coverage on the Britt Reid accident before, during, or after the Super Bowl.

While I didn’t pay that close attention to the commentary during the game, I did notice they never once mentioned the Britt Reid accident and how it might affect the Chiefs. I remember telling my mother on the way to church, “I have a bad feeling. There’s no way they’re gonna be able to concentrate today.” Everyone knew it happened. It was very obvious that Andy Reid was not in his normal mindset during the game. Having already lost a kid to a drug overdose, seeing another one recklessly endanger the life of a child-WHILE DRUNK-probably took his mind entirely from the game.

So why did nobody, and I mean NOBODY, talk about it? We have discussed tragedies during big games. Brett Favre losing his father before that legendary Monday Night Game is a story everyone remembers, Pack fan or not. Marquise Goodwin losing his baby boy hours before a game, only for him to get one of the best TDs he’s ever gotten, was a story that tugged many hearts. Millions of people watched him cry in the endzone. The NFL has never been one to stray from tragic stories. So what was the deal?

Did they want to downplay the tragedy to make it look like it wasn’t that big a deal, and the Chiefs just suddenly collapsed? Did nobody genuinely ask Andy Reid how he was doing, when he seemed to completely forget how to coach? Are the Chiefs being sued and trying not to talk about it? There’s no much said with the silence, what exactly made everyone act like this never happened?


There's a difference between the two tragic stories you mention and the Britt Reid caused tragedy. Causation. An employee of the Chiefs and the NFL did a heinous thing, the other two were natural happenstance. The league and CBS covered this crime up instead of covering it. You see, that's the long standing and dishonorable tradition of what wealthy self serving bastards do in a situation like this. And they have no shame in doing it whatsoever. They are disgusting.

I would say that they didn't want to comment on an ongoing criminal case, but we all know that's a crock of bullshit.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:20 am

Luminesa wrote:Very striking article about the lack of ANY sort of coverage on the Britt Reid accident before, during, or after the Super Bowl.

While I didn’t pay that close attention to the commentary during the game, I did notice they never once mentioned the Britt Reid accident and how it might affect the Chiefs. I remember telling my mother on the way to church, “I have a bad feeling. There’s no way they’re gonna be able to concentrate today.” Everyone knew it happened. It was very obvious that Andy Reid was not in his normal mindset during the game. Having already lost a kid to a drug overdose, seeing another one recklessly endanger the life of a child-WHILE DRUNK-probably took his mind entirely from the game.

So why did nobody, and I mean NOBODY, talk about it? We have discussed tragedies during big games. Brett Favre losing his father before that legendary Monday Night Game is a story everyone remembers, Pack fan or not. Marquise Goodwin losing his baby boy hours before a game, only for him to get one of the best TDs he’s ever gotten, was a story that tugged many hearts. Millions of people watched him cry in the endzone. The NFL has never been one to stray from tragic stories. So what was the deal?

Did they want to downplay the tragedy to make it look like it wasn’t that big a deal, and the Chiefs just suddenly collapsed? Did nobody genuinely ask Andy Reid how he was doing, when he seemed to completely forget how to coach? Are the Chiefs being sued and trying not to talk about it? There’s no much said with the silence, what exactly made everyone act like this never happened?


If I remember right they did mention it once fairly late in the game, and it was quick, nor more than two or three lines.

I dont know that harping on it during the game is appropriate. I am watching a football game, not a news report about a near fatal DUI.
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Postby Jerzylvania » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:24 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
There's a difference between the two tragic stories you mention and the Britt Reid caused tragedy. Causation. An employee of the Chiefs and the NFL did a heinous thing, the other two were natural happenstance. The league and CBS covered this crime up instead of covering it. You see, that's the long standing and dishonorable tradition of what wealthy self serving bastards do in a situation like this. And they have no shame in doing it whatsoever. They are disgusting.

I would say that they didn't want to comment on an ongoing criminal case, but we all know that's a crock of bullshit.


Yes. That would be just another page in their disingenuous play by play playbook
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Postby CoraSpia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:31 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Very striking article about the lack of ANY sort of coverage on the Britt Reid accident before, during, or after the Super Bowl.

While I didn’t pay that close attention to the commentary during the game, I did notice they never once mentioned the Britt Reid accident and how it might affect the Chiefs. I remember telling my mother on the way to church, “I have a bad feeling. There’s no way they’re gonna be able to concentrate today.” Everyone knew it happened. It was very obvious that Andy Reid was not in his normal mindset during the game. Having already lost a kid to a drug overdose, seeing another one recklessly endanger the life of a child-WHILE DRUNK-probably took his mind entirely from the game.

So why did nobody, and I mean NOBODY, talk about it? We have discussed tragedies during big games. Brett Favre losing his father before that legendary Monday Night Game is a story everyone remembers, Pack fan or not. Marquise Goodwin losing his baby boy hours before a game, only for him to get one of the best TDs he’s ever gotten, was a story that tugged many hearts. Millions of people watched him cry in the endzone. The NFL has never been one to stray from tragic stories. So what was the deal?

Did they want to downplay the tragedy to make it look like it wasn’t that big a deal, and the Chiefs just suddenly collapsed? Did nobody genuinely ask Andy Reid how he was doing, when he seemed to completely forget how to coach? Are the Chiefs being sued and trying not to talk about it? There’s no much said with the silence, what exactly made everyone act like this never happened?


If I remember right they did mention it once fairly late in the game, and it was quick, nor more than two or three lines.

I dont know that harping on it during the game is appropriate. I am watching a football game, not a news report about a near fatal DUI.

Sky in the UK mentioned it and drew attention to that maybe being why he didn't look his usual self.
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Ranoria
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Postby Ranoria » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:32 pm

Luminesa wrote:Very striking article about the lack of ANY sort of coverage on the Britt Reid accident before, during, or after the Super Bowl.

While I didn’t pay that close attention to the commentary during the game, I did notice they never once mentioned the Britt Reid accident and how it might affect the Chiefs. I remember telling my mother on the way to church, “I have a bad feeling. There’s no way they’re gonna be able to concentrate today.” Everyone knew it happened. It was very obvious that Andy Reid was not in his normal mindset during the game. Having already lost a kid to a drug overdose, seeing another one recklessly endanger the life of a child-WHILE DRUNK-probably took his mind entirely from the game.

So why did nobody, and I mean NOBODY, talk about it? We have discussed tragedies during big games. Brett Favre losing his father before that legendary Monday Night Game is a story everyone remembers, Pack fan or not. Marquise Goodwin losing his baby boy hours before a game, only for him to get one of the best TDs he’s ever gotten, was a story that tugged many hearts. Millions of people watched him cry in the endzone. The NFL has never been one to stray from tragic stories. So what was the deal?

Did they want to downplay the tragedy to make it look like it wasn’t that big a deal, and the Chiefs just suddenly collapsed? Did nobody genuinely ask Andy Reid how he was doing, when he seemed to completely forget how to coach? Are the Chiefs being sued and trying not to talk about it? There’s no much said with the silence, what exactly made everyone act like this never happened?

I’m with you there, thought it was weird. My guess is that they didn’t want the more casual fans (who may watch the super bowl and nothing else), to have that hanging over their heads, or to associate that kind of activity with football. You’ve gotta think that only more informed fans are even going to know it happened, and they were probably thinking it was best to cover it up. Mistake either way, because it did certainly play a part.

I do think the article’s criticism of Andrew Garland was annoying. It was hilarious. Everyone thinks a dude running out onto the field is hilarious (even if I would love to see a player clothesline him), and he played into it.
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Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:33 pm

Jerzylvania wrote:
Luminesa wrote:Very striking article about the lack of ANY sort of coverage on the Britt Reid accident before, during, or after the Super Bowl.

While I didn’t pay that close attention to the commentary during the game, I did notice they never once mentioned the Britt Reid accident and how it might affect the Chiefs. I remember telling my mother on the way to church, “I have a bad feeling. There’s no way they’re gonna be able to concentrate today.” Everyone knew it happened. It was very obvious that Andy Reid was not in his normal mindset during the game. Having already lost a kid to a drug overdose, seeing another one recklessly endanger the life of a child-WHILE DRUNK-probably took his mind entirely from the game.

So why did nobody, and I mean NOBODY, talk about it? We have discussed tragedies during big games. Brett Favre losing his father before that legendary Monday Night Game is a story everyone remembers, Pack fan or not. Marquise Goodwin losing his baby boy hours before a game, only for him to get one of the best TDs he’s ever gotten, was a story that tugged many hearts. Millions of people watched him cry in the endzone. The NFL has never been one to stray from tragic stories. So what was the deal?

Did they want to downplay the tragedy to make it look like it wasn’t that big a deal, and the Chiefs just suddenly collapsed? Did nobody genuinely ask Andy Reid how he was doing, when he seemed to completely forget how to coach? Are the Chiefs being sued and trying not to talk about it? There’s no much said with the silence, what exactly made everyone act like this never happened?


There's a difference between the two tragic stories you mention and the Britt Reid caused tragedy. Causation. An employee of the Chiefs and the NFL did a heinous thing, the other two were natural happenstance. The league and CBS covered this crime up instead of covering it. You see, that's the long standing and dishonorable tradition of what wealthy self serving bastards do in a situation like this. And they have no shame in doing it whatsoever. They are disgusting.

Oh that's true. I meant to say that in general, the NFL is used to talking about tragedies within its ranks at all levels. Not sure how much they can cover it when it was front-page news on NFL.com and all over Twitter, but I do agree that it was very suspicious that they refused to talk about it.
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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61228
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:41 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
There's a difference between the two tragic stories you mention and the Britt Reid caused tragedy. Causation. An employee of the Chiefs and the NFL did a heinous thing, the other two were natural happenstance. The league and CBS covered this crime up instead of covering it. You see, that's the long standing and dishonorable tradition of what wealthy self serving bastards do in a situation like this. And they have no shame in doing it whatsoever. They are disgusting.

I would say that they didn't want to comment on an ongoing criminal case, but we all know that's a crock of bullshit.

And I mean, I won't say I'm innocent in regards to making comments about Jameis Winston, but when he got in trouble for...any number of allegations (stealing crab-legs, saying profanities at FSU, possibly harassing a female Uber driver twice), it was EVERYWHERE and the source of all sorts of controversy. ESPN ate it up when Chip "Time Management Is A Useless Stat" Kelly accused LeSean Jackson of having gang ties, even though Jackson had not done anything. Aaron Hernandez, who actually murdered someone, had documentaries and ongoing coverage for MONTHS, and it was front-page news. This sudden silence when it comes to this story, despite it being EVERYWHERE, makes me wonder if they're preparing for legal action to be taken against them and don't want someone to spill details. Even so, I highly doubt Tony Romo and Jim Nantz are close enough to NFL brass that they can't even say, "You know Andy Reid's son was involved in that accident, I can't imagine, I get the feeling his heart's not in it today." It's just so bizarre.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

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Caleonia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Caleonia » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:20 am

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Dresderstan
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Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:46 pm


So is this the new plan for Indy, take old QBs and try to win them some success they didn't get previously?

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Kohr
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Posts: 3231
Founded: Aug 24, 2015
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Kohr » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:29 pm

Dresderstan wrote:

So is this the new plan for Indy, take old QBs and try to win them some success they didn't get previously?

I would say the plan in Indy is to take what they can get until they feel like they can actually make a move on a better quarterback in the draft or possibly free agency. They're still reeling from Luck's retirement.

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