Failing NY Times Obtains Trump Tax Records

[UniversalCommons]

The New York Times is propped up by Vicente Fox and others. It is not about money, it is pure politics and for practical purposes as long as it continues to report from its viewpoint, it will continue to be funded at a loss. The Wall Street Journal was essentially turned over to Rupert Murdoch, the family that owned it sold out and it has ceased being a particular well put together or believable paper. It is a pure political paper with a lot less journalism. It is very similar to what happened when Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post.

The New York Times will continue this way for a long time. It has a political purpose and will do a lot of damage to Trump before the election. That is what the main shareholders want.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

Its a bad use of money to pay more taxes than you have to. Some relatives of mine wanted to take out their retirement money but they didn't do so the right way and got hit with a 40% loss to the IRS. It is a crap scenario considering it was money they put away over many years but they don't get to enjoy much of it. You're more or less forced to hire an expensive accountant or financial advisor if you don't want to get robbed by a lot if you're no tax or financial expert.

One reason to save cash instead of trust a bank/stock market.

[Northern Davincia]

The income tax in the United States is a relatively new invention, and one that should not exist.

Wealth taxes go all the way back to the days of the Roman Republic, and have been in use on and off ever since.

Yet a similar device only came into being in 1913 (in the US), the worst year in American history.

[Vetalia]

Should be the same thing for millionaires and billionaires though.

It necessarily has to be in terms of legality. You can't make it legal for one person and illegal for another solely on the basis of wealth.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

I wish the wall was built around the legal loopholes so that his tax-evasion-helpers accountants could not get to them legally.

[Nilokeras]

Wealth taxes go all the way back to the days of the Roman Republic, and have been in use on and off ever since.

Yet a similar device only came into being in 1913 (in the US), the worst year in American history.

1913 also gave us the first sunglasses. Railing against either here in the year of our lord 2020 would be equally quixotic and irrelevant to the point that tax avoidance leads to societal collapse.

[New haven america]

Should be the same thing for millionaires and billionaires though.

It necessarily has to be in terms of legality. You can't make it legal for one person and illegal for another solely on the basis of wealth.

The fact that you don't see the irony in this statement floors me.

[Vetalia]

Its a bad use of money to pay more taxes than you have to. Some relatives of mine wanted to take out their retirement money but they didn't do so the right way and got hit with a 40% loss to the IRS. It is a crap scenario considering it was money they put away over many years but they don't get to enjoy much of it. You're more or less forced to hire an expensive accountant or financial advisor if you don't want to get robbed by a lot if you're no tax or financial expert.

Retirement plan withdrawals are very risky if you're not careful. If you've got a pre-tax 401k or IRA and take out an early distribution you'll get slammed with a 10% penalty plus the tax in your current bracket...it would have been a lot better to take a loan.

One might appreciate the irony that the 401(k) itself was invented solely by a unique interpretation of that section of the code by one guy in the early 1980s.

[Vetalia]

The fact that you don't see the irony in this statement floors me.

Oh, I see the irony very well...however, doing the exact same thing in the opposite direction isn't going to solve the problem.

[UniversalCommons]

I would like to know what exactly Trump owns. There are casinos and hotels. What else goes along with casinos and hotels, are there escort services, modeling agencies, strip clubs... There are other reasons than money to hide tax returns.

[New haven america]

The fact that you don't see the irony in this statement floors me.

Oh, I see the irony very well...however, doing the exact same thing in the opposite direction isn't going to solve the problem.

If you considering holding the rich accountable for their abuses in society as "Doing the same in the opposite direction."

Then I can't help you tbh.

[Cannot think of a name]

I would like to know what exactly Trump owns. There are casinos and hotels. What else goes along with casinos and hotels, are there escort services, modeling agencies, strip clubs... There are other reasons than money to hide tax returns.

You don't have to get weird and conspiratorial about it. The stuff that's actually there is good enough.

[Vetalia]

If you considering holding the rich accountable for their abuses in society as "Doing the same in the opposite direction."

Then I can't help you tbh.

The biggest source of tax fraud in the United States is the EITC claimed by "poor" Americans.

[Cannot think of a name]

If you considering holding the rich accountable for their abuses in society as "Doing the same in the opposite direction."

Then I can't help you tbh.

The biggest source of tax fraud in the United States is the EITC claimed by "poor" Americans.

If I had to guess, the reason you didn't source that is because by 'biggest source' you mean largest number and not largest amount of lost revenue. But you didn't source it so I'm just guessing.

[New haven america]

If you considering holding the rich accountable for their abuses in society as "Doing the same in the opposite direction."

Then I can't help you tbh.

The biggest source of tax fraud in the United States is the EITC claimed by "poor" Americans.

Yes, your source-less claim has truly shaken the foundation of my belief.

[Vetalia]

If I had to guess, the reason you didn't source that is because by 'biggest source' you mean largest number and not largest amount of lost revenue. But you didn't source it so I'm just guessing.

Right, the EITC has the largest prevalence of actual, proven fraud of any tax program. Tax evasion in and of itself is nebulous.

[Kowani]

If I had to guess, the reason you didn't source that is because by 'biggest source' you mean largest number and not largest amount of lost revenue. But you didn't source it so I'm just guessing.

Right, the EITC has the largest prevalence of actual, proven fraud of any tax program. Tax evasion in and of itself is nebulous.

Citation needed

[Vetalia]

Right, the EITC has the largest prevalence of actual, proven fraud of any tax program. Tax evasion in and of itself is nebulous.

Citation needed

https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/ov ... per-by-irs

[Cannot think of a name]

If I had to guess, the reason you didn't source that is because by 'biggest source' you mean largest number and not largest amount of lost revenue. But you didn't source it so I'm just guessing.

Right, the EITC has the largest prevalence of actual, proven fraud of any tax program. Tax evasion in and of itself is nebulous.

Yeah, it's cool, you can sit down. I went and did your homework for you because, as you know, it's not really the picture that you're painting. I know a source dance when I see it, so I just jumped ahead.

think if you surveyed a lot of our economists, they would tell you they like the Earned Income Tax Credit as an anti-poverty policy. Is this an accurate assumption?

Yes, they like it because it transfers income to those who are needy in a way that does not discourage work; in fact it tends to encourage work. It’s well targeted because it goes to people who are low income, particularly those who have children. It’s bigger for larger families that might have more of a need for help. So it really has a lot of attractive features.

So, what about that fraud issue many conservatives gripe about? Is it an overpayment or mispayment issue? What is happening there with that?

I think that that’s overstated. You sometimes will hear numbers like 30% — I probably shouldn’t repeat these numbers — that a substantial share of the dollars are paid in error. But many of these calculations don’t go back and say, “Well, the money went to grandma instead of her daughter who we think should get the credit.” Those statistics often will count the money that goes to grandma but then not net out the money that should have gone to the daughter, so it would’ve been paid out anyways; it just went to the wrong person.

Or, if a family really should’ve claimed three children rather than two children, they’ll call the entire payment fraud while really there’s an error and it’s just part of the payment.

Now, you don’t also want to call these errors fraud. It’s a scandal that the instructions for the Earned Income Tax Credit — I haven’t looked at the most recent tax guide — but it used to look something like 18 very dense pages out of the entire 200 pages of tax guide, so it’s just way too complicated. It’s not surprising that there are lot of errors under that circumstance.

No one disputes the improper payment rate, but there is significant disagreement over the cause. Rector attributed the entirety of that percentage to fraud. Others attribute it to the complexity of filing for the EITC.

“Everyone I know who has studied the issue, regardless of where they stand on the issue, agree that a sizable portion of the errors results from complexity,” said Bob Greenstein, the president of the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “I’m not saying there is no fraud, but most people conclude that the majority of the error is non-fraudulent.”

Greenstein agreed that cutting the improper payment rate should be a priority, but he faulted inadequate IRS funding and incompetence on the part of uncertified paid tax preparers for the errors. “You might need a license to become a cosmetologist, but you don’t need one to help people with their tax documents,” he said.

Myth 2: EITC fraud is widespread

For the last several years, the IRS has delayed issuing refunds to those who receive the EITC or ACTC (Additional Child Tax Credit) in order to conduct a thorough review of those returns to ensure proper payments. Those reviews revealed that more often than not, in situations where the EITC is claimed incorrectly, it is a result of a misunderstanding of the tax credit’s complex rules.

Tax Help Colorado Program Manager Courtney O’Reilly explained, “There are roughly 10 rules that apply to EITC eligibility. One of the most challenging tests is determining if someone is a qualifying child. The definition of a qualifying child for EITC purposes is actually different than a qualifying child for dependency purposes. Taxpayers often incorrectly assume that if they can claim a child as a dependent, they can also qualify them for the EITC. If the EITC is inaccurately claimed, it's more often due to errors than malicious intent.”

Even though tax fraud among EITC recipients is low, data shows that in 2017, EITC recipients were audited at twice the rate of taxpayers with incomes between $200,000 and $500,000. (ProPublica analysis of IRS data). As a matter of fact, audits on the EITC make up as much as a third of all audits conducted.
Myth 3: Taxpayers use EITC refunds for frivolous purchases

Some may assume low-income taxpayers are using their refunds for frivolous purchases. However, Americans with the lowest incomes—those earning less than $50,000—are most likely to use their refunds to pay off debt, including loans or credit cards (CBS news). Many EITC recipients also use their refunds for basic living expenses like clothes, shoes or groceries.

[Vetalia]

-snip-

Blah blah blah

https://www.eitc.irs.gov/tax-preparer-t ... raud/fraud

21-26% of claims paid "in error"

[Cannot think of a name]

-snip-

Blah blah blah

https://www.eitc.irs.gov/tax-preparer-t ... raud/fraud

21-26% of claims paid "in error"

The 'blah blah blah' is the context under which this red herring falls alllllllll the way apart.

[UniversalCommons]

What is interesting to me me in this debacle is not that he has not paid taxes, but that it shows that Trump has a huge amount of loans which are never going to be paid back. He has massive business loses and owes a huge amount to foreign companies.

[Vetalia]

The 'blah blah blah' is the context under which this red herring falls alllllllll the way apart.

The EITC has massive, proven fraud. Everything else is unproven "tax gap" tax evasion made up by the IRS.

[The Two Jerseys]

Except, as many have already pointed out, exploiting loopholes in the tax code to avoid having to pay taxes is perfectly legal.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Cannot think of a name]

The 'blah blah blah' is the context under which this red herring falls alllllllll the way apart.

The EITC has massive, proven fraud. Everything else is unproven "tax gap" tax evasion made up by the IRS.

Everyone can see the information. You don't have to lie about it, they'll read it.