Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict: The Great Betrayal

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

you misunderstood me. There has been such a truth for 30 years, but for some reason they are defending their righteous cause now. Did they wait for the attack of Armenia or did the arms dealers run out of money ?

What? Azerbaijan are losing now. Their own plans were to gain 10-15 km’s into the occupied territory but have failed to reach that.

Azerbaijan have contravened International law by breaking the ceasefire set by the Minsk Group. As they did in 2016z

Even if this is the case, it is wrong for Azerbaijan to remain silent in justified cases until this date.

[Ethel mermania]

How did turkey shit down a Armenian plane

with a silent but deadly fart.

[SD_Film Artists]

What? Azerbaijan are losing now. Their own plans were to gain 10-15 km’s into the occupied territory but have failed to reach that.

Azerbaijan have contravened International law by breaking the ceasefire set by the Minsk Group. As they did in 2016z

Even if this is the case, it is wrong for Azerbaijan to remain silent in justified cases until this date.

Still waiting for those "historical facts" about Azerbaijan's claim on Karabakh.

[Lower Nubia]

Well, a Turkish F-16 did shoot down an Armenian Su-24. The attack happened within Azerbaijan territory and we don’t know the pilot. The plane, however, was Turkish, as Azerbaijan has no F-16s.

Is there international verification of this yet? I don't want to sound overly cynical, but this wouldn't be the first time Armenia has... let's say, over-exaggerated about this sort of thing. That being said, the Azeris do have a history of shooting down Armenian aircraft (see the 2014 helicopter incident).

I would just be more comfortable waiting for international, independent confirmation before trusting the Armenian Defense Ministry.

Yes. We have the tracking data. Armenia’s ministry of defence has made outlandish claims prior to the anti-corruption reforms. Today though? The MoD is far more transparent in its claims and it’s authority in presenting evidence based claims is better.

[Lower Nubia]

What? Azerbaijan are losing now. Their own plans were to gain 10-15 km’s into the occupied territory but have failed to reach that.

Azerbaijan have contravened International law by breaking the ceasefire set by the Minsk Group. As they did in 2016z

Even if this is the case, it is wrong for Azerbaijan to remain silent in justified cases until this date.

So it’s right for them to break international law by breaking ceasefire agreements?

[ImperialRussia]

Image turkeys claims fighting over Greece now Greece interests are being attack turkey by attack Armenia

[Rio Cana]

One thing is for sure, if Russia continues its neutrality stand while Turkey does not and Armenia loses Artsakh then chances are they will kick out the Russians. CSTO would also fall apart. Chances are the US or France would fill the vacuum that Russia would leave. The US would most likely like to have a base in Armenia since Armenia is strategically located near Russia and Iran. Iran would also be a loser especially if the US replaced Russia.

[Albionist Great Britain]

Even if this is the case, it is wrong for Azerbaijan to remain silent in justified cases until this date.

Still waiting for those "historical facts" about Azerbaijan's claim on Karabakh.

AFAIK the only claim Baku could have is historical continuity. The region had been under Muslim rule for centuries and was included in the borders of local administrations drawn by Iranians and later Russians, which were based on Iranian maps. The Soviets conducted a census and chose to maintain the area under Azeri governance but with autonomy, but this collapsed with communism and since then Armenians have wanted to unite with Armenia rather than be an autonomy as it had been under Moscow.

[Albionist Great Britain]

Image turkeys claims fighting over Greece now Greece interests are being attack turkey by attack Armenia

No, it isn’t. This isn’t the 19th century anymore. Greece nor any of Europe can afford (financially and politically) a war with Turkey. Istanbul alone has more people than all of Greece. You’re fantasising again.

[ProbablySerrland]

Image turkeys claims fighting over Greece now Greece interests are being attack turkey by attack Armenia

You seem to be fantasizing about some sort of great Turkish geopolitical game being played.

I don't see Erdogan's foreign policy as being so convoluted and murky - he wants Aegean oil, his buddies in Baku are fighting.

There's not some great reckoning against Turkey in the works, there's no invasion of Turkey as you mentioned before, this is just a flare-up in an incredibly volatile region, albeit worse than is typical. I doubt this will become another 1988 situation. There's not enough in it for Turkey, or Azerbaijan for that matter. Is Artsakh really worth a repeat of the 88-94 conflict?

[Lower Nubia]

Still waiting for those "historical facts" about Azerbaijan's claim on Karabakh.

AFAIK the only claim Baku could have is historical continuity. The region had been under Muslim rule for centuries and was included in the borders of local administrations drawn by Iranians and later Russians, which were based on Iranian maps. The Soviets conducted and census and chose to maintain the area under Azeri governance but with autonomy, but this collapsed with communism and since then Armenians have wanted to unite with Armenia rather than be an autonomy as it had been under Moscow.

Well, after the Azerbaijani pogroms who could blame them?

[Albionist Great Britain]

AFAIK the only claim Baku could have is historical continuity. The region had been under Muslim rule for centuries and was included in the borders of local administrations drawn by Iranians and later Russians, which were based on Iranian maps. The Soviets conducted and census and chose to maintain the area under Azeri governance but with autonomy, but this collapsed with communism and since then Armenians have wanted to unite with Armenia rather than be an autonomy as it had been under Moscow.

Well, after the Azerbaijani pogroms who could blame them?

I’m definitely not. I’d be comfortable seeing the Aliyev Emirate get partitioned, but that’s merely my fantasy. The Armenian cause is just, even if there’s occasional issues with atrocities committed by Armenian fighters.

[ProbablySerrland]

One thing is for sure, if Russia continues its neutrality stand while Turkey does not and Armenia loses Artsakh then chances are they will kick out the Russians. CSTO would also fall apart. Chances are the US or France would fill the vacuum that Russia would leave. The US would most likely like to have a base in Armenia since Armenia is strategically located near Russia and Iran. Iran would also be a loser especially if the US replaced Russia.

I suspect Russian neutrality is everything but - calling for a ceasefire and end to hostilities maintains the status quo, which suits Moscow (and Yerevan) just fine. Demographics are working against Azerbaijan in Artsakh - only need to wait out another generation or so.

The Russian base by Gyumri isn't going anywhere. Armenia is firmly in the Russian sphere of influence. Ceasefire is a win for Armenia and Armenian-aligned influences here.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Still waiting for those "historical facts" about Azerbaijan's claim on Karabakh.

AFAIK the only claim Baku could have is historical continuity. The region had been under Muslim rule for centuries and was included in the borders of local administrations drawn by Iranians and later Russians, which were based on Iranian maps. The Soviets conducted a census and chose to maintain the area under Azeri governance but with autonomy, but this collapsed with communism and since then Armenians have wanted to unite with Armenia rather than be an autonomy as it had been under Moscow.

1991 Nagorno-Karabakh so-called independence referendum. How democratic is a referendum in which only Armenians participate ? even when you look at the results the odds do not seem democratic. Just put your hand on your conscience and you cannot support injustice just because you are a Christian state.

[Lower Nubia]

AFAIK the only claim Baku could have is historical continuity. The region had been under Muslim rule for centuries and was included in the borders of local administrations drawn by Iranians and later Russians, which were based on Iranian maps. The Soviets conducted a census and chose to maintain the area under Azeri governance but with autonomy, but this collapsed with communism and since then Armenians have wanted to unite with Armenia rather than be an autonomy as it had been under Moscow.

1991 Nagorno-Karabakh so-called independence referendum. How democratic is a referendum in which only Armenians participate ? even when you look at the results the odds do not seem democratic. Just put your hand on your conscience and you cannot support injustice just because you are a Christian state.

So we can have the referendum today? Who would win, do you think?

[Oerkar]

Heavy clashes in Nagorno-Karabakh. Armenia on martial law and full mobilization.Turkey and Erdogan trying to fuel the fires for conflict with Turkey’s age-old hatred of the Armenians.Hatred of Armenians never makes Turkey look good in the eyes of the world.Great move Turkey.
Hope Russia or Iran can bring a ceasefire to this conflict as soon as possible.

[Albionist Great Britain]

AFAIK the only claim Baku could have is historical continuity. The region had been under Muslim rule for centuries and was included in the borders of local administrations drawn by Iranians and later Russians, which were based on Iranian maps. The Soviets conducted a census and chose to maintain the area under Azeri governance but with autonomy, but this collapsed with communism and since then Armenians have wanted to unite with Armenia rather than be an autonomy as it had been under Moscow.

1991 Nagorno-Karabakh so-called independence referendum. How democratic is a referendum in which only Armenians participate ? even when you look at the results the odds do not seem democratic. Just put your hand on your conscience and you cannot support injustice just because you are a Christian state.

Honestly? I don’t care for the Azeris. They haven’t done anything to earn my sympathy, while Armenians have had to deal with pogroms and oppression committed upon them by the Azeris. Artsakh is Armenian and has always been Armenian, and is under siege by Azeris. Besides, Armenia has the democratic and local support mandate while Baku does not.

[Lower Nubia]

1991 Nagorno-Karabakh so-called independence referendum. How democratic is a referendum in which only Armenians participate ? even when you look at the results the odds do not seem democratic. Just put your hand on your conscience and you cannot support injustice just because you are a Christian state.

Honestly? I don’t care for the Azeris. They haven’t done anything to earn my sympathy, while Armenians have had to deal with pogroms and oppression committed upon them by the Azeris. Artsakh is Armenian and has always been Armenian, and is under siege by Azeris. Besides, Armenia has the democratic and local support mandate while Baku does not.

Simply having a claim is not a fully legitimate means of owning land. Any western country should support Armenia simply on the basis that they more closely represent western ideals: democracy, liberty, economic freedom. Why the western world would return land to a dictatorship is beyond me, even under the guise of international law.

[Rio Cana]

One thing is for sure, if Russia continues its neutrality stand while Turkey does not and Armenia loses Artsakh then chances are they will kick out the Russians. CSTO would also fall apart. Chances are the US or France would fill the vacuum that Russia would leave. The US would most likely like to have a base in Armenia since Armenia is strategically located near Russia and Iran. Iran would also be a loser especially if the US replaced Russia.

I suspect Russian neutrality is everything but - calling for a ceasefire and end to hostilities maintains the status quo, which suits Moscow (and Yerevan) just fine. Demographics are working against Azerbaijan in Artsakh - only need to wait out another generation or so.

The Russian base by Gyumri isn't going anywhere. Armenia is firmly in the Russian sphere of influence. Ceasefire is a win for Armenia and Armenian-aligned influences here.

The current Armenian leader is not that pro-Russian. Read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikol_Pas ... ith_Russia

The problem with a ceasefire which would benefit Armenia is that Turkey wants no ceasefire. Even there Pres. has said that in 30 years nothing has been done to solve this stalemate. It seems the Turkish Pres. stance is all or nothing.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

1991 Nagorno-Karabakh so-called independence referendum. How democratic is a referendum in which only Armenians participate ? even when you look at the results the odds do not seem democratic. Just put your hand on your conscience and you cannot support injustice just because you are a Christian state.

Honestly? I don’t care for the Azeris. They haven’t done anything to earn my sympathy, while Armenians have had to deal with pogroms and oppressed committed upon them by the Azeris. Artsakh is Armenian and has always been Armenian, and is under siege by Azeris. Besides, Armenia has the democratic and local support mandate while Baku does not.

You have a really scary thought. In Turkey, there are many people who think like you, unfortunately. There are many people who do not like Kurds and Armenians. I suggest you look at people as human beings.

[Salus Maior]

The Hashemites are the only worthy house for the Caliphate change my mind.

Eh, I can definitely see why you’d say that.

....Because they were the guardians of the Holy Cities for centuries and are descendants of Muhammad?

Also, they freed Arabia from the Turks and very nearly created a pan Arabic state?

[Lower Nubia]

Honestly? I don’t care for the Azeris. They haven’t done anything to earn my sympathy, while Armenians have had to deal with pogroms and oppressed committed upon them by the Azeris. Artsakh is Armenian and has always been Armenian, and is under siege by Azeris. Besides, Armenia has the democratic and local support mandate while Baku does not.

You have a really scary thought. In Turkey, there are many people who think like you, unfortunately. There are many people who do not like Kurds and Armenians. I suggest you look at people as human beings.

Well Azerbaijan haven’t done anything that deserves sympathy. They’ve been the aggressors here and in 2016, presented massacre level rhetoric at official levels against Armenians since at least 2016. Targeted civilians specifically, even today in fact, and are using minorities as cannon fodder. All while being a dictatorship with some of the worst liberties and freedoms rivalled by only North Korea.

[Albionist Great Britain]

Honestly? I don’t care for the Azeris. They haven’t done anything to earn my sympathy, while Armenians have had to deal with pogroms and oppressed committed upon them by the Azeris. Artsakh is Armenian and has always been Armenian, and is under siege by Azeris. Besides, Armenia has the democratic and local support mandate while Baku does not.

You have a really scary thought. In Turkey, there are many people who think like you, unfortunately. There are many people who do not like Kurds and Armenians. I suggest you look at people as human beings.

You haven’t shown anything to evidence you’re not amongst them. Your rhetoric stinks of nationalism and hypocrisy.

I’ve taken the test. It doesn’t make me care for the Azeris anymore than I already do, which is the bare minimum. I don’t hate them - but Baku doesn’t have any sympathy from me.

You have a really scary thought. In Turkey, there are many people who think like you, unfortunately. There are many people who do not like Kurds and Armenians. I suggest you look at people as human beings.

Well Azerbaijan haven’t done anything that deserves sympathy. They’ve been the aggressors here and in 2016, presented massacre level rhetoric at official levels against Armenians since at least 2016. Targeted civilians specifically, even today in fact, and are using minorities as cannon fodder. All while being a dictatorship with some of the worst liberties and freedoms rivalled by only North Korea.

^

[Insaanistan]

Fake news sites in Russia, Armenia and other nations have continued to spread anti-Muslim propaganda and unconfirmed news stories portraying the conflict as a jihad against Christianity that has prompted support from right wing politicians in Europe, as well as Greek and Serbian right wing nationalists.

[Neanderthaland]

Fake news sites in Russia, Armenia and other nations have continued to spread anti-Muslim propaganda and unconfirmed news stories portraying the conflict as a jihad against Christianity that has prompted support from right wing politicians in Europe, as well as Greek and Serbian right wing nationalists.

I mean - while that is almost certainly true - it doesn't mean that you're not the baddies in this conflict.