Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict: The Great Betrayal

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

[...] they can maintain air parody at least.

Touche'

[Insaanistan]

We should all just calm down and listen to some Sami Yusuf.

[Rio Cana]

One thing is for sure, you cannot rely on Azeri news services. They have the money from all that oil to pay for news propaganda worldwide but in the end they lack the democracy. Armenia, far from being an example of a modern western democratic nation, is a much more democratic nation then Azerbaijan.

Freedom house score for Armenia - https://freedomhouse.org/country/armeni ... ansit/2020

Freedom house score for Azerbaijan - https://freedomhouse.org/country/azerba ... ansit/2020

[Costa Hermosa]

Damnit Erdogan, stop flexing those non-existent muscles of yours!

[Insaanistan]

Damnit Erdogan, stop flexing those non-existent muscles of yours!

I mean, his vocal chords are amazing, but that’s about it:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... ycMqQr7BsA

[Rio Cana]

Damnit Erdogan, stop flexing those non-existent muscles of yours!

Off-topic -

Costa Hermosa (translation -Beautiful Coast). Nice name.

Why does it seem that the following would be the modern music that your citizens listen too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWUrfcGfeo

Back to topic. The Turkish leader if he gets involve would be chewing more then he can bite.

[Greed and Death]

I read the title as America and almost had a aw for fucks sake moment.

[Insaanistan]

I read the title as America and almost had a aw for fucks sake moment.

I mean, Trump did try that in certain cities. He also keeps refusing to say he’ll leave peacefully if Biden wins, and as a person with African parents, I know that’s definitely not a good combination.

[Novus America]

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck anyone have anything to debunk this?

Azerbaijani drone, not a Turkish one. There are actual news correspondents on twitter you can look at, not random people just saying things.

Looking more into it, no one seems to really know what the footage is, when it was taken, or who took it. The early stages of a war folks.

Turkish made, but Azerbaijani owned and operated it appears.
But yes this is concerning, although I expect both sides to back down shortly, as they did before, given the unusually bad global economic situation, and the US being distracted by other concerns, we cannot assume backing down is guaranteed.

[Saiyan Galactic Empire]

I read the title as America and almost had a aw for fucks sake moment.

If it was usa vs Azerbaijan then Itd be over before we could do a topic on it. Either the US military would already have wiped them out or russia got involved and thered be no articles at all.

[Greed and Death]

I read the title as America and almost had a aw for fucks sake moment.

I mean, Trump did try that in certain cities. He also keeps refusing to say he’ll leave peacefully if Biden wins, and as a person with African parents, I know that’s definitely not a good combination.

Trump deputized officers in Portland so he can bring federal charges and circumvent the local prosecutor's hesitancy to bring charges.
https://kval.com/news/local/i-want-viol ... y-may-face

[Insaanistan]

It’s all fun and games until Trump realizes Azerbaijan has oil.

[Novus America]

It’s all fun and games until Trump realizes Azerbaijan has oil.

We have been over this many times, that “war for oil” meme went out with Nu Metal.
It is a relic of the early 2010s.

The US has if anything to much oil, not too little.
There is an oil glut, not an oil shortage.

Trump would not care. This does not help him politically, and he has more pressing concerns.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... production

Azerbaijan is number 24. We are number one. Azerbaijani oil is not particularly important to us, nor do we need it.
The amount we import from them is inconsequential.

[Insaanistan]

It’s all fun and games until Trump realizes Azerbaijan has oil.

We have been over this many times, that “war for oil” meme went out with Nu Metal.
It is a relic of the early 2010s.

The US has if anything to much oil, not too little.
There is an oil glut, not an oil shortage.

Trump would not care. This does not help him politically, and he has more pressing concerns.

It’s a joke, though I understand everything until the last line.
Seriously: When has Trump ever not done something simply because it doesn’t help him politically and he has something more important to do.
Also, we are pretty oil hungry: it’s the only real reason Saudi is our best friend in the Middle East and we keep interfering in foreign electi-I mean making sure elections are transparent.

[Rio Cana]

Israel which sells weapons to Azerbaijan imports 40% of there oil from Azerbaijan. But Israel is trying to wean off imported oil by developing its off shore gas reserves.

[Kowani]

Well, this is rather unfortunate.

[Costa Hermosa]

Damnit Erdogan, stop flexing those non-existent muscles of yours!

Off-topic -

Costa Hermosa (translation -Beautiful Coast). Nice name.

Why does it seem that the following would be the modern music that your citizens listen too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWUrfcGfeo

Back to topic. The Turkish leader if he gets involved would be chewing more then he can bite.

Yeah, over-extended much?

Off-topic: I was lucky to snatch it when nobody was looking. Costa Hermosa's founding marks the date I started learning Spanish as my third language in school.

Such off-topic, much wow: It's quite sad, because I have an interesting alternate history theory behind this nation (basically, it's the continuation - and evolution - of this breakaway state on the Yucatán peninsula), yet I lack the time and historical background knowledge to put all of it out there for the world to see.

I've falsely convinced myself that I've encountered a metaphorical stone wall in my worldbuilding project in the form of the language barrier. Now I'm even afraid to continue working on my nation – this is re-enforced by the presumed lack of any reliable historical sources on the subject matter.

[Novus America]

We have been over this many times, that “war for oil” meme went out with Nu Metal.
It is a relic of the early 2010s.

The US has if anything to much oil, not too little.
There is an oil glut, not an oil shortage.

Trump would not care. This does not help him politically, and he has more pressing concerns.

It’s a joke, though I understand everything until the last line.
Seriously: When has Trump ever not done something simply because it doesn’t help him politically and he has something more important to do.
Also, we are pretty oil hungry: it’s the only real reason Saudi is our best friend in the Middle East and we keep interfering in foreign electi-I mean making sure elections are transparent.

Actually Trump usually gets involved in things for a reason, or a perceived one. There is a method to his madness.
At most he might offer to mediate, to try to be viewed as a peacemaker, but few Americans care about this. He gets involved for some perceived political gain.

And actually Trump has been less inclined to military intervention than his immediate predecessors.

I do not see any reasonable way for him to get significantly involved, let alone start a war here.

And on the last part, no. We make nearly as much oil as we consume, and most our imports come from Mexico and Canada.

US oil production is some 95% of US consumption. Net imports are only 5% of consumption.

Saudi oil is only 6% of imports. So they are 6% of 5%.
Or .3%. Virtually nothing.

We care about Saudi Arabia (although they are hardly our “best friend”, we have much better relations with Israel, Jordan, the UAE, Kuwait and Bahrain) because of their geographical position as a counter to Iran, and fear if they fall, they would be replace by something even worse.
NOT because they supply us with much oil, because they do not.
Not because we need their oil, because we do not.

You really think we as the number one oil producer (the US) wants or needs number 24’s (Azerbaijan) oil?

Your foreign policy viewpoint is hopelessly dated. The world has changed, oil is no longer our priority.

[Rio Cana]

If I were Armenia the only reason I would give up Artsakh would be if Turkey ceded a corridor to the sea. Yes, Armenia would lose Armenian ancient cultural sites in Artsakh but economically speaking, it would be a huge boast to Armenia's economy.

It would at the minimum be all the territory starting from the border with Georgia and Armenia to the roads you see in Turkey on the following map. Since Azerbaijan is oil rich let them pay the expropriation costs of any Turks living in that corridor and for moving any Armenia ancient cultural site from Artsakh.

Map - https://www.ecoi.net/en/file/local/1262 ... l-2002.jpg

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

The aggressive state of Armenia that committed the Khojaly Genocide should urgently abandon its aggressive stance.Turkish people stand by Azerbaijan against Armenia aggression. Turkey should support their brothers rather than to support the Arabic desert.My only wish is to end the brutality in the region and to ensure peace.

[Rio Cana]

Off-topic -

Costa Hermosa (translation -Beautiful Coast). Nice name.

Why does it seem that the following would be the modern music that your citizens listen too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWUrfcGfeo

Back to topic. The Turkish leader if he gets involved would be chewing more then he can bite.

Yeah, over-extended much?

Off-topic: I was lucky to snatch it when nobody was looking. Costa Hermosa's founding marks the date I started learning Spanish as my third language in school.

Such off-topic, much wow: It's quite sad, because I have an interesting alternate history theory behind this nation (basically, it's the continuation - and evolution - of this breakaway state on the Yucatán peninsula), yet I lack the time and historical background knowledge to put all of it out there for the world to see.

I've falsely convinced myself that I've encountered a metaphorical stone wall in my worldbuilding project in the form of the language barrier. Now I'm even afraid to continue working on my nation – this is re-enforced by the presumed lack of any reliable historical sources on the subject matter.

My answer in the spoiler

If you want to know more about the breakaway Republic of Yucatán then check Mexican sources. For example this source from youtube who says not many Mexicans know that Yucatán was independent. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEZN4uswsE

Yucatán separated twice from México. First in 1841. México sent in the army but in 1843 they reached a deal in which they would be given autonomy inside México. Then in 1846 almost five months before the start of the US - Mexican war they separated again because the Mexican congress said Yucatán could not have a special autonomy which the other Mexican states did not have. It only lasted two years by which time the US - Mexican war had ended. The Mayans were waging a fierce war against the Creoles who asked European nations and even the US for help. In return they offered to join that nation which came to rescue them. No one except México accepted the offer so they rejoined México.

During Spanish times for administrative purposes at one time parts of New Spain were divided into captaincy generals. Yucatán was its own captaincy general in 1565. Supposedly, it was under the direct control of the King of Castile when it came to the military and government. But since they had no judicial representatives they had to rely on México city which was the seat of New Spain.

This on the captaincy general of Yucatán. Captaincy generals were also at times referred to has Reinados (Kingdoms). Includes a map. Must scroll down to get to it - https://laamericaespanyola.wordpress.co ... generales/
The following contain a map which show the different - https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organización_territorial_del_Virreinato_de_Nueva_España

[SD_Film Artists]

One thing is for sure, you cannot rely on Azeri news services. They have the money from all that oil to pay for news propaganda worldwide but in the end they lack the democracy. Armenia, far from being an example of a modern western democratic nation, is a much more democratic nation then Azerbaijan.

Freedom house score for Armenia - https://freedomhouse.org/country/armeni ... ansit/2020

Freedom house score for Azerbaijan - https://freedomhouse.org/country/azerba ... ansit/2020

I'm not surprised. Azeri media has been putting out anti-Armenian 'news' stories long after this summer's skirmishes settled down, as if it's just their default function.

[Vistulange]

One thing is for sure, you cannot rely on Azeri news services. They have the money from all that oil to pay for news propaganda worldwide but in the end they lack the democracy. Armenia, far from being an example of a modern western democratic nation, is a much more democratic nation then Azerbaijan.

Freedom house score for Armenia - https://freedomhouse.org/country/armeni ... ansit/2020

Freedom house score for Azerbaijan - https://freedomhouse.org/country/azerba ... ansit/2020

I'm not surprised. Azeri media has been putting out anti-Armenian news stories long after this summer's skirmishes settled down, as if it's just their default function.

It probably is their default mode of operation. Anti-Armenian propaganda is very commonplace and normalised in Azerbaijan, from what I hear.

[Insaanistan]

Azerbaijan has now declared martial law and mobilized.

[Thermodolia]

Armenia is in trouble. They have fewer soldiers, vehicles, and aircraft. So far as I can tell they only have one advantage - 4 modern su30 fighters. If pilots were well trained they can maintain air parody at least.

Armenia has always been the weaker party in this fight. Yet it's held out and won for 32 years. If Turkey tries to directly intervene it's possible that could drag Russia or even Iran, weirdly enough, into the conflict.

If Turkey intervenes it will drag the CSTO into the fight.

Which could give us an excuse to kick Turkey out of NATO for fear of them dragging us into war with the russians