Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict: The Great Betrayal

[Salus Maior]

I’ve also never said that either.

Yet you describe it as a strategic necessity.

I never justified the ethnic cleansing.

If you want to feel real ‘holier than thou’ by attacking positions I don’t actually have, you go ahead. Hope you feel good about yourself today.

[Punished UMN]

Yet you describe it as a strategic necessity.

I never justified the ethnic cleansing.

If you want to feel real ‘holier than thou’ by attacking positions I don’t actually have, you go ahead. Hope you feel good about yourself today.

The fact that you see any kind of disagreement as personal spite isn't my problem. The problem is that I explicitly mentioned the ethnic cleansing of Azeris from the security corridor and your response was "If Armenia had done any less to secure Artsakh" etc etc. How is that not describing it as a strategic necessity?

[Novus America]

Cool. I don't see how needing to defend territory that isn't legally yours gives you any legal right to occupy land that isn't yours and expel its residents.

The law in this case not giving any shit to what the native people actually want.

We both know that international law is bullshit, UMN. Unless you’ve suddenly become a total shill for that.

Right to a lot of the area (but we still have the problem of what the people of places like Aghdam wanted, they did not want their city leveled) but the problem with that argument, if you say you are right, and the law is wrong, unless you can back it up with force, you still lose.
As Armenia discovered.
Right or wrong aside.

Sometimes breaking the law is absolutely morally justified (and the principles of territorial integrity and self determination in international law do contradict each other) but when you break the law, even an unjust law, you still face the consequences of breaking it.

[Salus Maior]

Armenia failed to secure Artsakh anyways. Because simply taking more land did not overcome its other failures.

They secured it for a couple decades and won every conflict up to this point. I wouldn’t call it a total failure.

[Salus Maior]

The fact that you see any kind of disagreement as personal spite isn't my problem. The problem is that I explicitly mentioned the ethnic cleansing of Azeris from the security corridor and your response was "If Armenia had done any less to secure Artsakh" etc etc. How is that not describing it as a strategic necessity?

Because keeping a large amount of people whose loyalty lies with Azerbaijan within the border of a country at war with Azerbaijan isn’t conducive to a secure position. That’s the logic at play here, and it’s honestly not that wrong as far as practical reality and the nature of the war is concerned.

That doesn’t make it right, and that doesn’t excuse the worst things Armenia did, but what else were they supposed to do in an existential conflict based on ethnic lines?

[Novus America]

Armenia failed to secure Artsakh anyways. Because simply taking more land did not overcome its other failures.

They secured it for a couple decades and won every conflict up to this point. I wouldn’t call it a total failure.

Perhaps not a total failure short term, but certainly a failure long term.
Clearly it was not a long term viable strategy.

They did overextend, taking more than they could hold.

And it is over now. Each year it will get worse.
It is all downhill for Armenians from here unfortunately.

Barring some miracle that fixes their endemic political chaos, economic inferiority and low fertility.

[Salus Maior]

They secured it for a couple decades and won every conflict up to this point. I wouldn’t call it a total failure.

Perhaps not a total failure short term, but certainly a failure long term.
Clearly it was not a long term viable strategy.

They did overextend, taking more than they could hold.

And it is over now. Each year it will get worse.
It is all downhill for Armenians from here unfortunately.

Barring some miracle that fixes their endemic political chaos, economic inferiority and low fertility.

Yeah, I know.

[Salus Maior]

There was no ethnic cleansing of armenians by the turks. both sides slaughtered one another. armenia is bringing up this topic over and over again due to modern-day political issues.

Then I would suggest you read a book sometime that’s not from a Turkish author.

[Rio Cana]

According to a youtube source. A group of so called foreign fighters in Nagorno Karabakh that were fighting for the Azeris tried crossing into Iran. This group also fired some shoots into Iranian settlements. In response, the Iranian military used there artillery to attack these foreign groups stationed in Azeri territory. Some think Turkey will use Azerbaijan to station foreign fighters in order to launch attacks into Iran.

Source but its in Spanish - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNmIxtsdks

[Dakran]

According to a youtube source. A group of so called foreign fighters in Nagorno Karabakh that were fighting for the Azeris tried crossing into Iran. This group also fired some shoots into Iranian settlements. In response, the Iranian military used there artillery to attack these foreign groups stationed in Azeri territory. Some think Turkey will use Azerbaijan to station foreign fighters who in order to launch attacks into Iran.

Source but its in Spanish - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNmIxtsdks

Well that's certainly... something.

[Rio Cana]

According to a youtube source. A group of so called foreign fighters in Nagorno Karabakh that were fighting for the Azeris tried crossing into Iran. This group also fired some shoots into Iranian settlements. In response, the Iranian military used there artillery to attack these foreign groups stationed in Azeri territory. Some think Turkey will use Azerbaijan to station foreign fighters who in order to launch attacks into Iran.

Source but its in Spanish - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNmIxtsdks

Well that's certainly... something.

According to the following report, when it comes to Iran, Iran is the big loser in this war.

Read - https://www.arabnews.com/node/1762626

[Nakena]

The sad thing is that dog Aliyev has only had his popularity increased by this war. The Azeris truly are modern lemmings.

typtical tactic of fledging unpopular autocrat. Start a war!

[Novus America]

The sad thing is that dog Aliyev has only had his popularity increased by this war. The Azeris truly are modern lemmings.

typtical tactic of fledging unpopular autocrat. Start a war!

It is. Unfortunately this will also boost Erdogan.
The difficulty with the tactic is if you lose, your regime usually falls.
But they won here. It is a high risk tactic but sometimes it pays off. It did here.

[Punished UMN]

The fact that you see any kind of disagreement as personal spite isn't my problem. The problem is that I explicitly mentioned the ethnic cleansing of Azeris from the security corridor and your response was "If Armenia had done any less to secure Artsakh" etc etc. How is that not describing it as a strategic necessity?

Because keeping a large amount of people whose loyalty lies with Azerbaijan within the border of a country at war with Azerbaijan isn’t conducive to a secure position. That’s the logic at play here, and it’s honestly not that wrong as far as practical reality and the nature of the war is concerned.

That doesn’t make it right, and that doesn’t excuse the worst things Armenia did, but what else were they supposed to do in an existential conflict based on ethnic lines?

"What else were they supposed to do except ethnic cleansing?"

Okay so your position is just open hypocrisy.

[Wropdeedop]

https://mobile.twitter.com/roubby_matossy/status/1320702386537717760

Anyone got thoughts on this guy’s analysis?

[Albionist Great Britain]

typtical tactic of fledging unpopular autocrat. Start a war!

It is. Unfortunately this will also boost Erdogan.
The difficulty with the tactic is if you lose, your regime usually falls.
But they won here. It is a high risk tactic but sometimes it pays off. It did here.

From what I know, popularity doesn’t protect dictator scum from ‘accidents’. However, unfortunately regarding that, the lack of spine from either the SIS or CIA to see to that possibility makes it an impossibility. I honestly want Aliyev and his clique out as soon as possible, ideally with Erdogan dragged along with him, whichever way’s quickest and more cleanly puts down Panturk supremacism.

[Albionist Great Britain]

According to a youtube source. A group of so called foreign fighters in Nagorno Karabakh that were fighting for the Azeris tried crossing into Iran. This group also fired some shoots into Iranian settlements. In response, the Iranian military used there artillery to attack these foreign groups stationed in Azeri territory. Some think Turkey will use Azerbaijan to station foreign fighters in order to launch attacks into Iran.

Source but its in Spanish - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNmIxtsdks

Hopefully Iran becomes more belligerent and deals with these transgressions.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

According to a youtube source. A group of so called foreign fighters in Nagorno Karabakh that were fighting for the Azeris tried crossing into Iran. This group also fired some shoots into Iranian settlements. In response, the Iranian military used there artillery to attack these foreign groups stationed in Azeri territory. Some think Turkey will use Azerbaijan to station foreign fighters in order to launch attacks into Iran.

Source but its in Spanish - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNmIxtsdks

Hopefully Iran becomes more belligerent and deals with these transgressions.

Never thought I'd support Iran in a dispute before...

2020 is strange.

[Dakran]

Hopefully Iran becomes more belligerent and deals with these transgressions.

Never thought I'd support Iran in a dispute before...

2020 is strange.

It's like the ruleset was set to random, and it just exponentially got worse the closer we got to the end of the year.

[The Marlborough]

Well damn: Armenia claims to have prevented a coup and an assassination attempt on the PM

Shame.

[Salus Maior]

Because keeping a large amount of people whose loyalty lies with Azerbaijan within the border of a country at war with Azerbaijan isn’t conducive to a secure position. That’s the logic at play here, and it’s honestly not that wrong as far as practical reality and the nature of the war is concerned.

That doesn’t make it right, and that doesn’t excuse the worst things Armenia did, but what else were they supposed to do in an existential conflict based on ethnic lines?

"What else were they supposed to do except ethnic cleansing?"

Okay so your position is just open hypocrisy.

If you would know of an alternative Armenia could have realistically done that wouldn’t have handicapped their efforts to protect the Armenian population of NK I would be sincerely glad to hear it.

I’m well aware of my own hypocrisy. I don’t take any joy in that.

[Salus Maior]

According to a youtube source. A group of so called foreign fighters in Nagorno Karabakh that were fighting for the Azeris tried crossing into Iran. This group also fired some shoots into Iranian settlements. In response, the Iranian military used there artillery to attack these foreign groups stationed in Azeri territory. Some think Turkey will use Azerbaijan to station foreign fighters in order to launch attacks into Iran.

Source but its in Spanish - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNmIxtsdks

Well, I guess they’ve got what was coming to them considering they backed Azerbaijan.

[Heloin]

Aside from Agdam and a few towns the whole of the region still had a Armenian majority pre 1988.

So how does that justify expelling 351,000 Azeris from its territory and conducting massacres during the Karabakh war?

You're the one pretending that's what I said.

[Wropdeedop]

So how does that justify expelling 351,000 Azeris from its territory and conducting massacres during the Karabakh war?

You're the one pretending that's what I said.

Then what are you saying?

[Heloin]

You're the one pretending that's what I said.

Then what are you saying?

I'm more curious why someone's sockpuppet has deleted this comment three times already.