The Huskar Social Union wrote:BBC has a map of how the peace treaty will supposedly be implemented
Fuck. That map is absolutely vile.
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by Albionist Great Britain » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:03 am
The Huskar Social Union wrote:BBC has a map of how the peace treaty will supposedly be implemented
by The Huskar Social Union » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:05 am
Albionist Great Britain wrote:The Huskar Social Union wrote:BBC has a map of how the peace treaty will supposedly be implemented
Fuck. That map is absolutely vile.
by Salus Maior » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:05 am
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:I am very afraid of the radicals in the Armenian government. because they can brutally kill women and children for the supposed dream of great Armenia.There is this hostility from the bad mentality of politicians and radicals, it is just that neither side should be racist towards each other.Senkaku wrote:Probably so, hybrid war and all that. Hopefully it doesn't lead the Azerbaijanis to continue attacking and taking more territory, would be my main concern.
Not saying it's not a bitter pill to ask the Armenian people to swallow, but I am not interested in seeing North America reduced to radioactive ash because they were losing a war against some crazy Turk's friends and called Moscow for help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_ ... Federation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_ ... of_Armenia
by Salus Maior » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:14 am
Duvniask wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
Considering the Armenian people just couped their government over this, they're not going to swallow it.
They're probably going to support an insurgency in Artsakh for as long as possible.
They haven't couped the government yet. They just broke into parliament and beat up the President of the National Assembly, Ararat Mirzoyan.
by Senkaku » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:35 am
Salus Maior wrote:Senkaku wrote:Fighting this ferociously over a couple of towns in an area smaller than Delaware remains bananas to me, but whatever. If they want to, then I guess go for it, but they're surrounded by powerful enemies who seem to be winning, and their history should show them that things can always get worse. Azerbaijan lost the last war, bought new weapons, and won this one. The Armenians are perfectly capable of doing the same if they'd rather do that than... any other meaningful collective national effort, I guess.
That's because you're looking at this from the position of American privilege. And I don't mean that as a jab.
The Armenian people have been on the losing side of history for a very long time, and they've lost so much of their heritage and homeland already through unimaginable injustices. We in the West, especially not in America, really know what it's like to live through that and be born in that context. We take for granted the security of our homeland, and the fact that we have a homeland.
by Rio Cana » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:37 am
Senkaku wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
Considering the Armenian people just couped their government over this, they're not going to swallow it.
They're probably going to support an insurgency in Artsakh for as long as possible.
Fighting this ferociously over a couple of towns in an area smaller than Delaware remains bananas to me, but whatever. If they want to, then I guess go for it, but they're surrounded by powerful enemies who seem to be winning, and their history should show them that things can always get worse. Azerbaijan lost the last war, bought new weapons, and won this one. The Armenians are perfectly capable of doing the same if they'd rather do that than... any other meaningful collective national effort, I guess.
by The Restored Danelaw » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:37 am
Senkaku wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
That's because you're looking at this from the position of American privilege. And I don't mean that as a jab.
The Armenian people have been on the losing side of history for a very long time, and they've lost so much of their heritage and homeland already through unimaginable injustices. We in the West, especially not in America, really know what it's like to live through that and be born in that context. We take for granted the security of our homeland, and the fact that we have a homeland.
Oh, I know. I just also don't understand why at a certain point, you wouldn't just... leave, or at least give up on trying to control stuff outside your borders. The Russians seem willing to protect them from outright invasion at least, at a certain point when you're the size of Armenia facing down the Turkish colossus you should maybe question if this isn't a futile endeavor and it might not be a better idea to hunker down and stock up on Russian missiles until some part of the equation changes.
June 14, 2021
Yorwick Daily: Kingly Heere takes Sanct James. Nahowland gives up the Crig in Miscitoland after nearly half a year of fighting. | Spanning breaks out between the Gemeanwealth and China when HMS Siegfried sinks down 3 Chineish boats wrongfully sailing in Angledanish waters near Eadwardhaven. | OFN's General Forsamling sheds to 'deal with the Crisis in Indey'. Japan, the Danelaw, New England give the Farmers' regearing in Indey a Lastsay until July 1 to give up to the Regearingstrue in Hyderabad "or else." | Gang Shao, China's President comes out ill with a deadly shape of forstanderscrab. Loremen warn that an Eld of Criglords may be forthcoming in China if Shao dies before naming an erfollower.
by Punished UMN » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:44 am
The Restored Danelaw wrote:Senkaku wrote:Oh, I know. I just also don't understand why at a certain point, you wouldn't just... leave, or at least give up on trying to control stuff outside your borders. The Russians seem willing to protect them from outright invasion at least, at a certain point when you're the size of Armenia facing down the Turkish colossus you should maybe question if this isn't a futile endeavor and it might not be a better idea to hunker down and stock up on Russian missiles until some part of the equation changes.
Frankly because there's no insurance Russia will help them if it's willing to adhere to unjust laws not to involve itself in Artsakh already. As nobody really came to their aid against a genocidal enemy that has repeatedly called for their extermination simply because a land historically and demographically Armenian was unilaterally "granted" to Baku, there is no guarantee anyone will when Turks come to just, you know, finish the job. After all, it is just some fool thing in the Caucasus, what's more important? Some Armenians who can cut their losses and just, go live somewhere else (or more accurately be killed by a genocidal enemy) or avoiding WWIII?
by Rio Cana » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:45 am
Senkaku wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
That's because you're looking at this from the position of American privilege. And I don't mean that as a jab.
The Armenian people have been on the losing side of history for a very long time, and they've lost so much of their heritage and homeland already through unimaginable injustices. We in the West, especially not in America, really know what it's like to live through that and be born in that context. We take for granted the security of our homeland, and the fact that we have a homeland.
Oh, I know. I just also don't understand why at a certain point, you wouldn't just... leave, or at least give up on trying to control stuff outside your borders. The Russians seem willing to protect them from outright invasion at least, at a certain point when you're the size of Armenia facing down the Turkish colossus you should maybe question if this isn't a futile endeavor and it might not be a better idea to hunker down and stock up on Russian missiles until some part of the equation changes.
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:46 am
by Duvniask » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:47 am
by The Restored Danelaw » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:49 am
Punished UMN wrote:There's fundamentally a legal difference between invading Artsakh and invading Armenia-proper that would change things.
June 14, 2021
Yorwick Daily: Kingly Heere takes Sanct James. Nahowland gives up the Crig in Miscitoland after nearly half a year of fighting. | Spanning breaks out between the Gemeanwealth and China when HMS Siegfried sinks down 3 Chineish boats wrongfully sailing in Angledanish waters near Eadwardhaven. | OFN's General Forsamling sheds to 'deal with the Crisis in Indey'. Japan, the Danelaw, New England give the Farmers' regearing in Indey a Lastsay until July 1 to give up to the Regearingstrue in Hyderabad "or else." | Gang Shao, China's President comes out ill with a deadly shape of forstanderscrab. Loremen warn that an Eld of Criglords may be forthcoming in China if Shao dies before naming an erfollower.
by Punished UMN » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:51 am
The Restored Danelaw wrote:Punished UMN wrote:There's fundamentally a legal difference between invading Artsakh and invading Armenia-proper that would change things.
If you can use flimsy legal defenses not to help your ally not get 140,000 of its people ethnically cleansed and/or genocided, there is no guarantee you won't use some other flimsy excuse when they inevitably take their aggression one step further. The thing every country unfortunate enough to have to rely on Russian protection knows by heart is that Russia simply cannot be trusted to protect you. It's just that you don't have another option.
by Albionist Great Britain » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:53 am
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:How democratic can the opinions of those who support the coup in Armenia be ? Back to the point I mentioned, radical lack of education is the real problem of the region. The events in Armenia are really sad, I hope the barbarians who attacked the parliament will be arrested as soon as possible.(Image)
by The Restored Danelaw » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:53 am
Punished UMN wrote:The Restored Danelaw wrote:If you can use flimsy legal defenses not to help your ally not get 140,000 of its people ethnically cleansed and/or genocided, there is no guarantee you won't use some other flimsy excuse when they inevitably take their aggression one step further. The thing every country unfortunate enough to have to rely on Russian protection knows by heart is that Russia simply cannot be trusted to protect you. It's just that you don't have another option.
Something that the entire world agrees is the bedrock of the international legal order is not a "flimsly legal defense."
June 14, 2021
Yorwick Daily: Kingly Heere takes Sanct James. Nahowland gives up the Crig in Miscitoland after nearly half a year of fighting. | Spanning breaks out between the Gemeanwealth and China when HMS Siegfried sinks down 3 Chineish boats wrongfully sailing in Angledanish waters near Eadwardhaven. | OFN's General Forsamling sheds to 'deal with the Crisis in Indey'. Japan, the Danelaw, New England give the Farmers' regearing in Indey a Lastsay until July 1 to give up to the Regearingstrue in Hyderabad "or else." | Gang Shao, China's President comes out ill with a deadly shape of forstanderscrab. Loremen warn that an Eld of Criglords may be forthcoming in China if Shao dies before naming an erfollower.
by Punished UMN » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:55 am
The Restored Danelaw wrote:Punished UMN wrote:Something that the entire world agrees is the bedrock of the international legal order is not a "flimsly legal defense."
Relying on an unjust law with no basis for its legitimacy (in this particular case, siding with Baku on the issue of Artsakh) to shy away from both helping an ally and protecting people who're about to be ethnically cleansed and/or genocided is not even a flimsy legal defense, it's just outright refusal to adhere to your side of the bargain. If international law gives Artsakh to Baku, it is international law that's wrong, as is anyone who recognizes Baku's claims.
by The Restored Danelaw » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:57 am
Punished UMN wrote:The Restored Danelaw wrote:Relying on an unjust law with no basis for its legitimacy (in this particular case, siding with Baku on the issue of Artsakh) to shy away from both helping an ally and protecting people who're about to be ethnically cleansed and/or genocided is not even a flimsy legal defense, it's just outright refusal to adhere to your side of the bargain. If international law gives Artsakh to Baku, it is international law that's wrong, as is anyone who recognizes Baku's claims.
Just because a law is unjust doesn't mean it's not the law.
June 14, 2021
Yorwick Daily: Kingly Heere takes Sanct James. Nahowland gives up the Crig in Miscitoland after nearly half a year of fighting. | Spanning breaks out between the Gemeanwealth and China when HMS Siegfried sinks down 3 Chineish boats wrongfully sailing in Angledanish waters near Eadwardhaven. | OFN's General Forsamling sheds to 'deal with the Crisis in Indey'. Japan, the Danelaw, New England give the Farmers' regearing in Indey a Lastsay until July 1 to give up to the Regearingstrue in Hyderabad "or else." | Gang Shao, China's President comes out ill with a deadly shape of forstanderscrab. Loremen warn that an Eld of Criglords may be forthcoming in China if Shao dies before naming an erfollower.
by Punished UMN » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:57 am
by The Restored Danelaw » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:00 am
I don't care who 'gets to pick and choose', what matters to me is that 140,000 people are at the risk of ethnic cleansing and genocide because Russia decided not to adhere to the spirit of an agreement it made with another country purely because an unjust law gave a land that is rightfully Armenian to a country that's all-but grounded on the idea of wiping out Armenians as a people.
June 14, 2021
Yorwick Daily: Kingly Heere takes Sanct James. Nahowland gives up the Crig in Miscitoland after nearly half a year of fighting. | Spanning breaks out between the Gemeanwealth and China when HMS Siegfried sinks down 3 Chineish boats wrongfully sailing in Angledanish waters near Eadwardhaven. | OFN's General Forsamling sheds to 'deal with the Crisis in Indey'. Japan, the Danelaw, New England give the Farmers' regearing in Indey a Lastsay until July 1 to give up to the Regearingstrue in Hyderabad "or else." | Gang Shao, China's President comes out ill with a deadly shape of forstanderscrab. Loremen warn that an Eld of Criglords may be forthcoming in China if Shao dies before naming an erfollower.
by Senkaku » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:02 am
The Restored Danelaw wrote:I don't care who 'gets to pick and choose', what matters to me is that 140,000 people are at the risk of ethnic cleansing and genocide because Russia decided not to adhere to the spirit of an agreement it made with another country purely because an unjust law gave a land that is rightfully Armenian to a country that's all-but grounded on the idea of wiping out Armenians as a people.Punished UMN wrote:Okay so who gets to pick and choose what laws we respect?
by Punished UMN » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:03 am
The Restored Danelaw wrote:I don't care who 'gets to pick and choose', what matters to me is that 140,000 people are at the risk of ethnic cleansing and genocide because Russia decided not to adhere to the spirit of an agreement it made with another country purely because an unjust law gave a land that is rightfully Armenian to a country that's all-but grounded on the idea of wiping out Armenians as a people.Punished UMN wrote:Okay so who gets to pick and choose what laws we respect?
by Vapormancer » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:29 am
Senkaku wrote:The Restored Danelaw wrote:I don't care who 'gets to pick and choose', what matters to me is that 140,000 people are at the risk of ethnic cleansing and genocide because Russia decided not to adhere to the spirit of an agreement it made with another country purely because an unjust law gave a land that is rightfully Armenian to a country that's all-but grounded on the idea of wiping out Armenians as a people.
You expect any country to adhere to the "spirit" of an international defense treaty, rather than just the actual letter of the treaty agreement, when deciding whether or not go to war...? You do realize negotiations on that type of thing take so long because you have to expect people will only adhere to the letter of it, not the "spirit," right? That's... basically why diplomatic corps exist...
by Shofercia » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:44 am
Albionist Great Britain wrote:Russia’s going to be useless, just like how we abandoned and sold out the Poles and other victims of the Nazi and Soviet regimes, they’ve abandoned and sold out the Armenians. The Armenians need to continue their fight until every last Azeri out for their blood is driven from Artsakh.
Salus Maior wrote:Senkaku wrote:They're losing the war. They should live to fight another day instead of going out in a blaze of glory if they have any sense about them. And you'll struggle to get Americans, Europeans, or Russians to take a hardline approach either in favor of Armenia or Azerbaijan, because it turns out, most of us are not fans of letting Erdogan start World War 3 between NATO and Russia over, quite literally, some damn fool thing in the Caucasus. The Armenians will have to just eat shit now and figure things out later, as the Kurds have had to for much the same reason. Not saying they've not been very hard done by by Turkish atrocities and bullying over the years, but unfortunately in that region, especially when it comes to small powers, the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must. That's what happens when you're close to God, but far from the United States.
From what I hear, some Armenian military units are refusing to stand down.
I imagine they're going to continue an insurgency in Artsakh for a while. Which, tbh, will probably be more effective than a conventional war.
by Shofercia » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:53 am
Senkaku wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
Considering the Armenian people just couped their government over this, they're not going to swallow it.
They're probably going to support an insurgency in Artsakh for as long as possible.
Fighting this ferociously over a couple of towns in an area smaller than Delaware remains bananas to me, but whatever. If they want to, then I guess go for it, but they're surrounded by powerful enemies who seem to be winning, and their history should show them that things can always get worse. Azerbaijan lost the last war, bought new weapons, and won this one. The Armenians are perfectly capable of doing the same if they'd rather do that than... any other meaningful collective national effort, I guess.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:I am very afraid of the radicals in the Armenian government. because they can brutally kill women and children for the supposed dream of great Armenia.There is this hostility from the bad mentality of politicians and radicals, it is just that neither side should be racist towards each other.Senkaku wrote:Probably so, hybrid war and all that. Hopefully it doesn't lead the Azerbaijanis to continue attacking and taking more territory, would be my main concern.
Not saying it's not a bitter pill to ask the Armenian people to swallow, but I am not interested in seeing North America reduced to radioactive ash because they were losing a war against some crazy Turk's friends and called Moscow for help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_ ... Federation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_ ... of_Armenia
The Restored Danelaw wrote:Punished UMN wrote:Something that the entire world agrees is the bedrock of the international legal order is not a "flimsly legal defense."
Relying on an unjust law with no basis for its legitimacy (in this particular case, siding with Baku on the issue of Artsakh) to shy away from both helping an ally and protecting people who're about to be ethnically cleansed and/or genocided is not even a flimsy legal defense, it's just outright refusal to adhere to your side of the bargain. If international law gives Artsakh to Baku, it is international law that's wrong, as is anyone who recognizes Baku's claims.
by Vapormancer » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:02 pm
Shofercia wrote:
Why do you think the Russian Peacekeepers are there? To defend the people. Russia stayed neutral in the war, and that was a failure, but Russia's recent Peace Deal prevented the Genocide of Astarkh. Let's not lose sight of that.
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