Oppression and “Getting Revenge”

[Kowani]

You’re capable of critical thinking, I think. Do that.

Yo, I'm stealing that phrase.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You’re capable of critical thinking, I think. Do that.

Yo, I'm stealing that phrase.

Go ahead. It isn’t copyrighted. ;3

[Kowani]

Yo, I'm stealing that phrase.

Go ahead. It isn’t copyrighted. ;3

If it was, Disney would probably own it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Go ahead. It isn’t copyrighted. ;3

If it was, Disney would probably own it.

Fucking Disney.

To add something I forgot in my initial post: it’s good to also check why someone may feel the way they do regarding BLM or MeToo. If their experience with adherents hasn’t been positive, that colors perceptions. I’ve seen incredibly hateful posts online addressed to men and hashtagged with #metoo. If shit is all you receive, it’s kind of understandable to consider the movements in a negative light.

That being said, we should be careful with generalizations too. Not every person who’s pro BLM is in it to hate white people. Not every person who subscribes to MeToo is a man hater.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Considering that racist hispanic gangs usually target black people first, I wouldn't join even if I hated whites with a passion. And I don't believe in "racial revenge." Not everyone in an ethnic group is guilty of what some people do. Killing whites because of MAGA is dumb, and it'll lead to an ethnic conflict akin to the troubles or Lebanon. Fuck that.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Just my two cents: BLM, MeToo, to name two of the things you mentioned, all started with particular positive intentions at heart, I think. The problem lies, imo, in the penchant for going to extremes and the adultering that some people engage in.

It’s one thing to listen to and strive to enact change based on the actual and legitimate issues pointed out by these two movements, and another to completely muddy the waters to perhaps advance more radical ideas. I mean, lampooning such by using the legitimate grievances brought up by black people or by those who have been victims of sexual assault. Sadly that has happened with both BLM and MeToo.

Neither movement should be about hating either whites or men.

And neither movement is.

Many of the people in said movements are bigots, just like many palestinian militants are anti semitic or many IRA men are anti British, or many people of any movement I support have issues. BLM is a good movement but it has some bad people in it. That's to be expected in this world. You'll never get perfection.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Yes. I think you're one of the only leftists that is not trying to embolden the "revenge" types, as a growing amount of liberals and leftists are subscribing to the idea that racism is prejudice plus power, which is a deliberate attempt to downplay anti-white bigotry.

Anyone who watches a video of 5 black guys beating an old white lady to death and says "this is not racist" automatically disqualifies themselves in my eyes from being taken seriously.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

You’re capable of critical thinking, I think. Do that.

Yo, I'm stealing that phrase.

Lol same.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Yes. I think you're one of the only leftists that is not trying to embolden the "revenge" types, as a growing amount of liberals and leftists are subscribing to the idea that racism is prejudice plus power, which is a deliberate attempt to downplay anti-white bigotry.

Sorry, but "racism is prejudice plus power" makes a certain amount of sense. I would phrase it "racism from those who have power towards those without, is a more serious problem than racism from those without power towards those with it". It's still not quite right, implying that classes of people have power while other classes have none, but with the caveat that it should only be applied individually and not "every white person has more institutional power than every black person".

Applied individually, maybe you'd agree that your boss being racist to you is a worse thing than you being racist to your boss.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Yes. I think you're one of the only leftists that is not trying to embolden the "revenge" types, as a growing amount of liberals and leftists are subscribing to the idea that racism is prejudice plus power, which is a deliberate attempt to downplay anti-white bigotry.

Sorry, but "racism is prejudice plus power" makes a certain amount of sense. I would phrase it "racism from those who have power towards those without, is a more serious problem than racism from those without power towards those with it". It's still not quite right, implying that classes of people have power while other classes have none, but with the caveat that it should only be applied individually and not "every white person has more institutional power than every black person".

Applied individually, maybe you'd agree that your boss being racist to you is a worse thing than you being racist to your boss.

Systemic racism is worse than individual racism. There

[West Leas Oros 2]

Just my two cents: BLM, MeToo, to name two of the things you mentioned, all started with particular positive intentions at heart, I think. The problem lies, imo, in the penchant for going to extremes and the adultering that some people engage in.

It’s one thing to listen to and strive to enact change based on the actual and legitimate issues pointed out by these two movements, and another to completely muddy the waters to perhaps advance more radical ideas. I mean, lampooning such by using the legitimate grievances brought up by black people or by those who have been victims of sexual assault. Sadly that has happened with both BLM and MeToo.

Neither movement should be about hating either whites or men.

I never mentioned either of those. I get enough straw manning from people saying shit like "WHY ARE YOU AGAINST EQUALITY?".

You know what I'm against? I'll give you a hint: it's not equality. I made this thread because I worry that in the future, people will be distributing the SCUM manifesto in schools or citing melanin theory in courts of law. I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Just my two cents: BLM, MeToo, to name two of the things you mentioned, all started with particular positive intentions at heart, I think. The problem lies, imo, in the penchant for going to extremes and the adultering that some people engage in.

It’s one thing to listen to and strive to enact change based on the actual and legitimate issues pointed out by these two movements, and another to completely muddy the waters to perhaps advance more radical ideas. I mean, lampooning such by using the legitimate grievances brought up by black people or by those who have been victims of sexual assault. Sadly that has happened with both BLM and MeToo.

Neither movement should be about hating either whites or men.

I never mentioned either of those. I get enough straw manning from people saying shit like "WHY ARE YOU AGAINST EQUALITY?".

You know what I'm against? I'll give you a hint: it's not equality. I made this thread because I worry that in the future, people will be distributing the SCUM manifesto in schools or citing melanin theory in courts of law. I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

My bad, my intention wasn’t to straw man you. I confused Glorious Hong Kong’s post with your OP.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Make a thread about the possible threat of these ideologies, and of course the apologists come out.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I never mentioned either of those. I get enough straw manning from people saying shit like "WHY ARE YOU AGAINST EQUALITY?".

You know what I'm against? I'll give you a hint: it's not equality. I made this thread because I worry that in the future, people will be distributing the SCUM manifesto in schools or citing melanin theory in courts of law. I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

My bad, I confused Glorious Hong Kong’s post with your OP.

You and probably everyone else in this thread. Glad to know that opposing ideologies calling for violence against entire ethnic groups or genders is now "Anti-SJW hysteria".

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

My bad, I confused Glorious Hong Kong’s post with your OP.

You and probably everyone else in this thread. Glad to know that opposing ideologies calling for violence against entire ethnic groups or genders is now "Anti-SJW hysteria".

I never claimed your point is anti-SJW hysteria however.

[West Leas Oros 2]

You and probably everyone else in this thread. Glad to know that opposing ideologies calling for violence against entire ethnic groups or genders is now "Anti-SJW hysteria".

I never claimed your point is anti-SJW hysteria however.

Others in the thread did.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I never claimed your point is anti-SJW hysteria however.

Others in the thread did.

What I did remark, stemming from GHK’s post, was to be cautious about generalizations.

[West Leas Oros 2]

But if they move on who will explain to us how racist racial equality is or how sexist having consequences for sexual assault is?

I see you haven't given up strawmanning.

Ah yes, the classic Anti-SJW circle jerk, "hey you ever wonder if maybe people like Louis Farrakhan are racist?"

[Major-Tom]

I'm not sure I'm following exactly what the OP means, but as a rule of thumb, if your ideology is based around the idea of getting revenge, then that's certainly dangerous and not exactly desirable.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I'm not sure I'm following exactly what the OP means, but as a rule of thumb, if your ideology is based around the idea of getting revenge, then that's certainly dangerous and not exactly desirable.

Well that's kind of the gist of it. I was deliberately vague to avoid people claiming I hated "x group". Lo and behold, they still did.

[Major-Tom]

I'm not sure I'm following exactly what the OP means, but as a rule of thumb, if your ideology is based around the idea of getting revenge, then that's certainly dangerous and not exactly desirable.

Well that's kind of the gist of it. I was deliberately vague to avoid people claiming I hated "x group". Lo and behold, they still did.

I think your (deliberate) vagueness coupled with the super specific responses really threw me off.

But, yeah, revenge politics is bad y'all, it's not productive.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Yes. I think you're one of the only leftists that is not trying to embolden the "revenge" types, as a growing amount of liberals and leftists are subscribing to the idea that racism is prejudice plus power, which is a deliberate attempt to downplay anti-white bigotry.

Sorry, but "racism is prejudice plus power" makes a certain amount of sense. I would phrase it "racism from those who have power towards those without, is a more serious problem than racism from those without power towards those with it". It's still not quite right, implying that classes of people have power while other classes have none, but with the caveat that it should only be applied individually and not "every white person has more institutional power than every black person".

Applied individually, maybe you'd agree that your boss being racist to you is a worse thing than you being racist to your boss.

You're thinking of institutional racism, which is something different. Plus, I'm not the "boss" of black people and they do not fear me as such.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Yes. I think you're one of the only leftists that is not trying to embolden the "revenge" types, as a growing amount of liberals and leftists are subscribing to the idea that racism is prejudice plus power, which is a deliberate attempt to downplay anti-white bigotry.

I hope you're wrong about that. I'm not saying you're wrong (although I think you're exaggerating the role of leftists in this), but I hope you are. Call me crazy, but the more I see bullshit from my own team, the more I wonder if Stalinist methods are necessary.

[Page]

I like guillotine memes as much as the next radical leftist but in reality I am against vengeance. If there is ever a successful revolution, I would prefer a compassionate approach.

For example, the people who work for ICE as immigrant hunters or at the detention facilities, as an alternative to prison I would offer the chance for them to admit their guilty publicly, apologize, do community service, and go speak to people, speak at schools telling students how they were wrong to blindly follow orders and to not think critically about the harm they were doing, so that the next generation learns to do better.

[Major-Tom]

Sorry, but "racism is prejudice plus power" makes a certain amount of sense. I would phrase it "racism from those who have power towards those without, is a more serious problem than racism from those without power towards those with it". It's still not quite right, implying that classes of people have power while other classes have none, but with the caveat that it should only be applied individually and not "every white person has more institutional power than every black person".

Applied individually, maybe you'd agree that your boss being racist to you is a worse thing than you being racist to your boss.

You're thinking of institutional racism, which is something different. Plus, I'm not the "boss" of black people and they do not fear me as such.

I think the racism debate gets tricky and leans too heavily into semantics, because I don't think it's controversial to say that institutional racism against people of color in the US is arguably far more damaging/prevalent than anti-white racism. That isn't to say people of color can't be racist, just that institutional racism is certainly the bigger issue compared to anti-white racism, which can exist, but certainly isn't all too prevalent on an institutional level. I think the issue is that some otherwise well-intentioned youngsters misconstrue that as "racism is only prejudice + power."

Either way, not sure how that plays into the idea of revenge-based politics. With what you said, I think revenge based politics has become entrenched in the US. We no longer view political opponents as political opponents but as a sort of existential enemy that deserves "payback." It's deeply unhealthy, and I reckon even a lot of us here have been guilty of using that narrative before, without even realizing it.