NationStates

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:40 pm**

Neuer Deutsches Reich wrote:https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.tellerreport.com/amp/2020-09-25-danger-to-public-order--reich-flags-on-german-streets---is-a-ban-coming-soon-.rkabkoEirw.html

In Germany, history is a touchy subject. Too many people of all over the world only know of the nazi period and will say that things from other German history were of the Nazi’s. Indeed it was a dark period, but not all German history consists of that short period! A country rich of glorious and lovely history, from the Germanic tribes to the unification of the German states. The same flag of the first unified Germany, possibly banned because of the nazi’s? In my opi nion, it is nearly treason if the government even dares to ban the flag. On the other hand there are also people using it wrong and give it a bad name. The Nazi flag is forbidden, so people often use the Imperial German flag instead. They think by using it they can be more like the National-Socialists, but because of dumb people like that, the flag should be banned? Will the neo-Nazi’s that don’t understand the history of the flag, decide its fate? Should all old flags of every nation be banned because of people misusing it? Should we drastically improve history lessons so people understand the past better? What do you think?

Banning the Black-White-Red flag?! That's just INSANE!

Remember when the World Wildlife Fund made the WWE blur out their Attitude Era Logo? It got annoying and distracting VERY fast! Plus, blurring out ALL of those tapes must have been one of the most frustrating jobs to do back in 2002. Thankfully, the Pandas came to their senses in 2012 and allowed the WWE to use the logo in old footage.

Banning the Imperial Flag would be that, but on a MUCH larger level. It just opens up a can of worms. If the ban DOES pass (which is unlikely), I can only hope for a WWE 2012 situation where Germany unbans the flag like the 2012 court case unbanned the WWF Scratch Logo.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:40 pm**

I wouldn't trust Germany with an empty can of insecticide, let alone an Imperial flag. Ban it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:41 pm**

US-SSR wrote:I wouldn't trust Germany with an empty can of insecticide, let alone an Imperial flag. Ban it.

Wow, you should be thanking them, for without them you wouldn't exist.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:42 pm**

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The German Imperial flag (and it's variants) was used by the Nazis. If it didn't, the German Empire has it's own dark history of colonialism in Africa and it being the first nation in WWI to use chemical weapons, probably some other stuff I'm missing.

You can ban the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes on the same terms.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:45 pm**

Benuty wrote:
Heloin wrote:Imperial Germany did do a whole lot of genocide in the colonies. Maybe the empires of the 19th century all just sucked.

To be fair genocide was pretty much the forte of anyone who wanted to put down a rebellion, even the Europeans weren't safe (Balkans specifically).

That to be fair is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:46 pm**

Heloin wrote:
Benuty wrote:To be fair genocide was pretty much the forte of anyone who wanted to put down a rebellion, even the Europeans weren't safe (Balkans specifically).

That to be fair is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

I am just saying that century handed out genocide like it was the treatment for the common cold. Got a problem? Just massacre everyone, and make the rest who survive near slaves to toil for you in exchange to live.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:47 pm**

Heloin wrote:
Benuty wrote:To be fair genocide was pretty much the forte of anyone who wanted to put down a rebellion, even the Europeans weren't safe (Balkans specifically).

That to be fair is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Britain, Turkey, and America were just as bad if not worse.

And Turkey actually still has the same flag as they did before.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:48 pm**

Salus Maior wrote:
Heloin wrote:That to be fair is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Britain, Turkey, and America were just as bad if not worse.

And Turkey actually still has the same flag as they did before.

The ironic part is that their military junta at least acknowledged their war crimes, but the moment the founding father gets involved its "oh no we can't admit we were wrong".

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:51 pm**

Haruhi Japan wrote:It is official, Germany is no longer Germany.

Germany is more like East France now with the way they've ran their country. The last true German state was East Germany. That's why I based the Hurricania Imperium on pre-1918 Germany.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:54 pm**

Oerkar wrote:A reason the German Imperial flag is banned in Germany is because it’s fascist and Nazi and a disgusting part of Germany’s past that brings up horrible and sick memories for Germans that they want to put behind them and forget.I can’t be any clearer for you than that!

How can the German Imperial flag be Nazi and Fascist? It was designed and used before these ideologies even really existed and certainly before they had much of an impact on world politics. If you mean that it’s been appropriated by Nazis, then that is somewhat true, but as others have pointed out you can’t ban every symbol or flag which has some negative connotations. If you did, then you would be banning almost every national flag in the world, almost every religious symbol and countless other symbols across the world. That being said, just banning symbols would be ineffective, so you would have to suppress cultures, ban ideologies and destroy national monuments and what about national languages? Would you also suppress them as well? If you did all of these things, in an effort to remove fascism and Nazism, you would yourself become a totalitarian dictator practicing the oppression of your citizens. For this reason, I don’t think that the German Imperial flag should be banned and apart from very limited circumstances, I don’t think any symbols should be banned, because symbols are nothing without the ideologies behind them, which can only be fought through education and civil debate.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:57 pm**

Nilrahrarfan wrote:
Haruhi Japan wrote:It is official, Germany is no longer Germany.

Germany is more like East France now with the way they've ran their country. The last true German state was East Germany. That's why I based the Hurricania Imperium on pre-1918 Germany.

I would read up on the ostalgie phenomenon if I were you, apparently, a lot of east germans miss the old days, and its a fascinating subject.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:59 pm**

And besides, what's going to happen if they ban it? The Nazis will then just adopt another symbol.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:02 pm**

Salus Maior wrote:And besides, what's going to happen if they ban it? The Nazis will then just adopt another symbol.

Then we ban that symbol. Duh. /s

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:03 pm**

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:And besides, what's going to happen if they ban it? The Nazis will then just adopt another symbol.

Then we ban that symbol. Duh. /s

The soviets had a fascinating tactic, just send your dissidents to mental asylums, and turn them into empty shells that conform to societal consensus.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:04 pm**

Nilrahrarfan wrote:
Haruhi Japan wrote:It is official, Germany is no longer Germany.

Germany is more like East France now with the way they've ran their country. The last true German state was East Germany. That's why I based the Hurricania Imperium on pre-1918 Germany.

Not really. Modern Germany is still very different from France in terms of politics. German politics is far less militantly secular, for example.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:05 pm**

South His Majestys most loyal kangaroos wrote:
Oerkar wrote:A reason the German Imperial flag is banned in Germany is because it’s fascist and Nazi and a disgusting part of Germany’s past that brings up horrible and sick memories for Germans that they want to put behind them and forget.I can’t be any clearer for you than that!

How can the German Imperial flag be Nazi and Fascist? It was designed and used before these ideologies even really existed and certainly before they had much of an impact on world politics. If you mean that it’s been appropriated by Nazis, then that is somewhat true, but as others have pointed out you can’t ban every symbol or flag which has some negative connotations. If you did, then you would be banning almost every national flag in the world, almost every religious symbol and countless other symbols across the world. That being said, just banning symbols would be ineffective, so you would have to suppress cultures, ban ideologies and destroy national monuments and what about national languages? Would you also suppress them as well? If you did all of these things, in an effort to remove fascism and Nazism, you would yourself become a totalitarian dictator practicing the oppression of your citizens. For this reason, I don’t think that the German Imperial flag should be banned and apart from very limited circumstances, I don’t think any symbols should be banned, because symbols are nothing without the ideologies behind them, which can only be fought through education and civil debate.

Here we go.I want it to be BANNED because I find it offensive.I don’t need to debate that with you.I think you should know better than to talk like that.Yes the German Imperial flag was appropriated by the Nazis.The Weimar Republic flag shouldn’t be banned because that was a good Socialist government at the time that had free culture and despised things like Nazism.I just want the German Imperial flag banned for my own reasons.I see it as a symbol of the past and I am forward thinking,so get rid of all things that hinder true progress.Burn the flag for all I care.Just get rid of it.I don’t like symbols of hatred and neither should you.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:05 pm**

Salus Maior wrote:And besides, what's going to happen if they ban it? The Nazis will then just adopt another symbol.

If they ban the Black-White-Red flag, here's what the AFD and NDP will use in its place

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:06 pm**

The Germans need to stop covering up the past but instead learn from it

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:07 pm**

Bienenhalde wrote:
Nilrahrarfan wrote:Germany is more like East France now with the way they've ran their country. The last true German state was East Germany. That's why I based the Hurricania Imperium on pre-1918 Germany.

Not really. Modern Germany is still very different from France in terms of politics. German politics is far less militantly secular, for example.

I don't know about you, but its time for a return of the rightful Frankish rulers of Germany.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:07 pm**

Oerkar wrote:
South His Majestys most loyal kangaroos wrote:How can the German Imperial flag be Nazi and Fascist? It was designed and used before these ideologies even really existed and certainly before they had much of an impact on world politics. If you mean that it’s been appropriated by Nazis, then that is somewhat true, but as others have pointed out you can’t ban every symbol or flag which has some negative connotations. If you did, then you would be banning almost every national flag in the world, almost every religious symbol and countless other symbols across the world. That being said, just banning symbols would be ineffective, so you would have to suppress cultures, ban ideologies and destroy national monuments and what about national languages? Would you also suppress them as well? If you did all of these things, in an effort to remove fascism and Nazism, you would yourself become a totalitarian dictator practicing the oppression of your citizens. For this reason, I don’t think that the German Imperial flag should be banned and apart from very limited circumstances, I don’t think any symbols should be banned, because symbols are nothing without the ideologies behind them, which can only be fought through education and civil debate.

Here we go.I want it to be BANNED be Ayse I find it offensive.I don’t need to debate that with you.I think you should know better than to talk like that.Yes the German Imperial flag was appropriated by the Nazis.The Weimar Republic flag shouldn’t be banned because that was a good Socialist government at the time that had free culture and despised things like Nazism.I just want the German Imperial flag banned for my own reasons.I see it as a symbol of the past and I am forward thinking,so get rid of all things that hinder true progress.Burn the flag for all I care.Just get rid of it.I don’t like symbols of hatred and neither should you.

That's not gonna work. It's just gonna cause MORE issues, ESPECIALLY after Wirecard. Plus, Ostalgie might be exploited by the AuthRight.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:09 pm**

The ban is because of it being used by neo-Nazis, but aren't Nazis themselves already banned in Germany? Isn't that a hat on a hat?

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:10 pm**

Nilrahrarfan wrote:
Oerkar wrote:

Here we go.I want it to be BANNED be Ayse I find it offensive.I don’t need to debate that with you.I think you should know better than to talk like that.Yes the German Imperial flag was appropriated by the Nazis.The Weimar Republic flag shouldn’t be banned because that was a good Socialist government at the time that had free culture and despised things like Nazism.I just want the German Imperial flag banned for my own reasons.I see it as a symbol of the past and I am forward thinking,so get rid of all things that hinder true progress.Burn the flag for all I care.Just get rid of it.I don’t like symbols of hatred and neither should you.

That's not gonna work. It's just gonna cause MORE issues, ESPECIALLY after Wirecard. Plus, Ostalgie might be exploited by the AuthRight.

The Soviets pretty much didn't have near the level of denazification the west did. All Stalin wanted was to turn the citizens in east Germany into proper party members. Some were just changing their former nazi party membership for a new party that was just as dictatorial. So you might be right about the auth right there.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:10 pm**

Benuty wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:Not really. Modern Germany is still very different from France in terms of politics. German politics is far less militantly secular, for example.

I don't know about you, but its time for a return of the rightful Frankish rulers of Germany.

You mean the House of Bourbon?

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:12 pm**

Nilrahrarfan wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:And besides, what's going to happen if they ban it? The Nazis will then just adopt another symbol.

If they ban the Black-White-Red flag, here's what the AFD and NDP will use in its place

Ironic that Neo-Nazis, who are rabidly anti-communist, would adopt the symbol of the former communist puppet regime in Germany.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:13 pm**

Rusozak wrote:The ban is because of it being used by neo-Nazis, but aren't Nazis themselves already banned in Germany? Isn't that a hat on a hat?

By the logic of the current rulers of East Francia (I REFUSE to call it Germany the way it's being ran right now), we should ban the North Korean flag because of Kim Jong Un.

Seriously, though. We should ONLY ban Islamic Terrorist flags. Those are a TRUE threat right now, unlike Nazism.

NationStates

Possible ban on German imperial flag, it is going to far.