Fl. Gov. Propose law to legalize running over BLM protesters

[Bombadil]

It's amazing how similar some Republican senators are the same as the Chinese CCP party, same approach to dissent.

Being able to force protesters out of the way after repeated warnings after being mobbed isn't the same as shooting protesters on site, if that indeed is what you're comparing it to.

The thing is that violence only occurs when the system is not responding to a social issue. Both in HK and with BLM, a social issue is not being properly addressed if not a blind eye being turned to it. Although HK didn't start out as such both essentially faced an unaccountable police force using violence and then the state essentially backing them in that violence.

Here the state is backing citizen use of violence, which really only encourages citizen participation. If you don't want to be affected by protests then stay away from them, don't drive around in them, take guns along to them.. let the police handle it and the state should very much be ensuring the police handle it within the law.

In HK the CCPs response was not to address the issue but to clamp down on dissent, blame everything on the protests, insinuate foreign forces were driving it, allow the police to continue with violence. In the US they seem to be actively encouraging and protecting citizen involvement.

We had a year of protests in HK, where I wanted to I could stay well clear of them, and they would have remained peaceful if the state didn't use violence to disperse them.

Normally any protest is upfront about where they're happening, so just stay away from them.

However, more specifically, 'charges for donating to protests that result in property damage'. - that's similar to what they did here, made donating to protests illegal.. because who can tell if they're going to turn violent or not, it's almost making donating to contentious causes illegal.

[Purpelia]

In HK the CCPs response was not to address the issue but to clamp down on dissent, blame everything on the protests, insinuate foreign forces were driving it, allow the police to continue with violence. In the US they seem to be actively encouraging and protecting citizen involvement.

But what do you do if you live or work in the effected area? What if you have family or friends who might be hurt or their property vandalized? What if you will loose your job if you don't show up and you have to get past the crowd? Or if you are caught by surprise? Or if you are just a honest citizen who wants to live your honest normal life without having to be intimidated by a violent horde?

It is altogether wrong both from a legal and a moral standpoint to go "Rioters will be rioters. If you don't want to get hurt just stay away." It's plain and simply victim blaming. No different than saying "If you don't want to get raped don't wear a short skirt and go to parties." In both cases the private citizen has a right to be protected from the violent behavior of others and it is those violent others who should in fact be punished for their violence.

[Vassenor]

3. Racist: The fact they are a movement based entirely on the idea that race is the primary determinant of a persons character and fate in life. It's literally in their name.

I'm not following your logic here. Apparently saying police racism is bad is itself racism somehow.

[Bombadil]

In HK the CCPs response was not to address the issue but to clamp down on dissent, blame everything on the protests, insinuate foreign forces were driving it, allow the police to continue with violence. In the US they seem to be actively encouraging and protecting citizen involvement.

But what do you do if you live or work in the effected area? What if you have family or friends who might be hurt or their property vandalized? What if you will loose your job if you don't show up and you have to get past the crowd? Or if you are caught by surprise? Or if you are just a honest citizen who wants to live your honest normal life without having to be intimidated by a violent horde?

It is altogether wrong both from a legal and a moral standpoint to go "Rioters will be rioters. If you don't want to get hurt just stay away." It's plain and simply victim blaming. No different than saying "If you don't want to get raped don't wear a short skirt and go to parties."

Are BLM protestors attacking random people for no reasons, I doubt it - I could happily walk among HK protests with nary a hint of violence. The BLM protests have an issue, and personally I think it's a valid issue. Certainly where there's violence the police should step in within the boundaries of the law, but I don't see the point of other people getting actively involved and certainly not protected for doing so.

It's completely different to the short skirt thing as BLM, as far as I understand, are not hunting innocent people.

As I understand it the protests are largely peaceful, and only violent when people go in and create a scene for no reason.

[Vassenor]

But what do you do if you live or work in the effected area? What if you have family or friends who might be hurt or their property vandalized? What if you will loose your job if you don't show up and you have to get past the crowd? Or if you are caught by surprise? Or if you are just a honest citizen who wants to live your honest normal life without having to be intimidated by a violent horde?

It is altogether wrong both from a legal and a moral standpoint to go "Rioters will be rioters. If you don't want to get hurt just stay away." It's plain and simply victim blaming. No different than saying "If you don't want to get raped don't wear a short skirt and go to parties."

Are BLM protestors attacking random people for no reasons, I doubt it - I could happily walk among HK protests with nary a hint of violence. The BLM protests have an issue, and personally I think it's a valid issue. Certainly where there's violence the police should step in within the boundaries of the law, but I don't see the point of other people getting actively involved and certainly not protected for doing so.

It's completely different to the short skirt thing as BLM, as far as I understand, are not hunting innocent people.

As I understand it the protests are largely peaceful, and only violent when people go in and create a scene for no reason.

Usually involving the white nats trying to start shit.

[Purpelia]

3. Racist: The fact they are a movement based entirely on the idea that race is the primary determinant of a persons character and fate in life. It's literally in their name.

I'm not following your logic here. Apparently saying police racism is bad is itself racism somehow.

Racism is the belief that ones racial identity is the primary determining factor of that person. As in the belief that not only does race matter but you are what your race says you are. The BLM movement is a movement of black people for black people for the explicit purpose of handling issues of the black race. Therefore it is by definition a racist movement. And not all racism is always bad. It only becomes bad when you use it as an excuse to hurt people. Star Trek is a racist show, what with their stated belief that each species is entirely determined by their racial characteristics (Vulcans are logical, all Klingons are violent etc.) But it ain't evil.

Furthermore from the perspective of an outside observer it is very clear that your police isn't really racist so much as it is acting as a hyper violent occupation force. And they are taking their violent urges out on the poor semi-criminal population which just happens to be predominantly black. But the core issues are police violence and economics and not inherent racism. If all your semi criminal urban poor were white they would likely be just as violent, militarized and generally bad.
If you will excuse a slight (but only slight) hyperbole the last time we in Europe had police like that they wore black and spoke German. And that is a bad thing^TM.

Are BLM protestors attacking random people for no reasons, I doubt it - I could happily walk among HK protests with nary a hint of violence. The BLM protests have an issue, and personally I think it's a valid issue. Certainly where there's violence the police should step in within the boundaries of the law, but I don't see the point of other people getting actively involved and certainly not protected for doing so.

It's completely different to the short skirt thing as BLM, as far as I understand, are not hunting innocent people.

As I understand it the protests are largely peaceful, and only violent when people go in and create a scene for no reason.

They are clearly doing property damage. And that by definition is hurting people. Or do you think having your home or business burned down is not harm?

Again, nobody here is (well I hope not anyway as that would be insane) saying that all protesters are bad and that these protests should be shut down. But it is equally invalid to say that a person should just stay away or not defend them self if things get violent or that one should permit protesters to cause harm to their normal, sensible and innocent daily life just because they have a problem. And of course the government is going to use the violent side of the protests as proof that they are all evil and need putting down. That's what governments do. But that does not excuse those that do turn violent.

[Bombadil]

Are BLM protestors attacking random people for no reasons, I doubt it - I could happily walk among HK protests with nary a hint of violence. The BLM protests have an issue, and personally I think it's a valid issue. Certainly where there's violence the police should step in within the boundaries of the law, but I don't see the point of other people getting actively involved and certainly not protected for doing so.

It's completely different to the short skirt thing as BLM, as far as I understand, are not hunting innocent people.

As I understand it the protests are largely peaceful, and only violent when people go in and create a scene for no reason.

Usually involving the white nats trying to start shit.

I mean, fuck, I read about vigilantes conducting road checks in Washington state, just pulling people up and asking whether they were from around these parts.. what the fuck.. the state shouldn't be encouraging people to take such actions, and these sort of things do that - as well as being part of the whole 'the protestors are all hoodlums' to distract from the underlying issue.

Same tactic used all the time to suppress valid social concerns that the state doesn't want to deal with. What's the phrase we use around here about attack the post not the poster.

[Bombadil]

I'm not following your logic here. Apparently saying police racism is bad is itself racism somehow.

Racism is the belief that ones racial identity is the primary determining factor of that person. As in the belief that not only does race matter but you are what your race says you are. The BLM movement is a movement of black people for black people for the explicit purpose of handling issues of the black race. Therefore it is by definition a racist movement. And not all racism is always bad. It only becomes bad when you use it as an excuse to hurt people. Star Trek is a racist show, what with their stated belief that each species is entirely determined by their racial characteristics (Vulcans are logical, all Klingons are violent etc.) But it ain't evil.

Furthermore from the perspective of an outside observer it is very clear that your police isn't really racist so much as it is acting as a hyper violent occupation force. And they are taking their violent urges out on the poor semi-criminal population which just happens to be predominantly black. But the core issues are police violence and economics and not inherent racism. If all your semi criminal urban poor were white they would likely be just as violent, militarized and generally bad.
If you will excuse a slight (but only slight) hyperbole the last time we in Europe had police like that they wore black and spoke German. And that is a bad thing^TM.

No, racism is.. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

You can say this is an movement about race, but not a racist movement.

As for the police, there are many reports about the slow infiltration by white nationalists, hell it's why OJ Simpson got off back in the 90's.

Link

[Purpelia]

Racism is the belief that ones racial identity is the primary determining factor of that person. As in the belief that not only does race matter but you are what your race says you are. The BLM movement is a movement of black people for black people for the explicit purpose of handling issues of the black race. Therefore it is by definition a racist movement. And not all racism is always bad. It only becomes bad when you use it as an excuse to hurt people. Star Trek is a racist show, what with their stated belief that each species is entirely determined by their racial characteristics (Vulcans are logical, all Klingons are violent etc.) But it ain't evil.

Furthermore from the perspective of an outside observer it is very clear that your police isn't really racist so much as it is acting as a hyper violent occupation force. And they are taking their violent urges out on the poor semi-criminal population which just happens to be predominantly black. But the core issues are police violence and economics and not inherent racism. If all your semi criminal urban poor were white they would likely be just as violent, militarized and generally bad.
If you will excuse a slight (but only slight) hyperbole the last time we in Europe had police like that they wore black and spoke German. And that is a bad thing^TM.

No, racism is.. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

You can say this is an movement about race, but not a racist movement.

As for the police, there are many reports about the slow infiltration by white nationalists, hell it's why OJ Simpson got off back in the 90's.

Link

OJ got off because your trial system is not a legal system but theater and he got a really good lawyer who could turn the reality show that was his trial into his stage. No justice is ever done in your courts, only theater.

[Diahon]

3. Racist: The fact they are a movement based entirely on the idea that race is the primary determinant of a persons character and fate in life. It's literally in their name.

I'm not following your logic here. Apparently saying police racism is bad is itself racism somehow.

of course it is

don't you know? forcing the powers that be to be more egalitarian is bigotry in itself, for some people are iredeemable, and if they're black, well, so much the better

[-Astoria-]

Feels like a bad case of Florida Man.

[Vassenor]

Also how does "police need to stop killing people based just on the colour of their skin" constitute defining a person's worth by their race? If anything it's the opposite.

[Diahon]

Also how does "police need to stop killing people based just on the colour of their skin" constitute defining a person's worth by their race? If anything it's the opposite.

because they're gathering others of their own hue to demand change in line with an egalitarian vision of the united states, and that is bad, because an oppressed black guy is exactly on the same plane as any other person who llives on unmolested

[Bombadil]

No, racism is.. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

You can say this is an movement about race, but not a racist movement.

As for the police, there are many reports about the slow infiltration by white nationalists, hell it's why OJ Simpson got off back in the 90's.

Link

OJ got off because your trial system is not a legal system but theater and he got a really good lawyer who could turn the reality show that was his trial into his stage. No justice is ever done in your courts, only theater.

I'm from HK but.. OJ got off because the lawyers were able to build a narrative that the police had doctored evidence as they were racists, which really wasn't helped by one of the initial three police on the scene being a literal Nazi.

[Purpelia]

Also how does "police need to stop killing people based just on the colour of their skin" constitute defining a person's worth by their race? If anything it's the opposite.

Because frankly from an outsiders perspective they are. At best, they are missing the point entirely. And at worst they are demonstrating that they don't care just as long as you leave their race alone. That's how.

Fundamentally racism is not the primary cause of the american situation. Yes, it is definitively a thing and it is definitively a contributing factor. And yes, black people are likely at the receiving end of police violence because of it. But fundamentally it's the police violence that is the problem more than the racism. And that police violence is the result of deeper social and economic issues.

Yes, you have parts of your country where the police is killing people left and right and generally acting like a violent oppressive occupation force. This is something that has been primarily caused by your gun culture, massive proliferation of firearms and the collapse of your middle class economy which leaves far too many people of all races without hope of achieving the american dream that everyone in your culture is indoctrinated into striving for. This leaves you with a huge population of working poor and essentially the same conditions seen in 19th century western Europe. And your police is naturally turning to the same means with similarly bad results.

And it is these things that are the primary problem. If your society did not have these problems but retained the mass racism you might well be in a situation where said racism ends up being noticed in such grievous acts as having black people being less likely to be let off a traffic fine with a warning as opposed to what you have now where they have their children shot in the streets. Which is frankly deplorable, let's be honest.

Fundamentally your society has reached a point where it needs a class revolution and not a race one. You need deep structural reforms to your society, economy and culture. That is the only thing that is going to solve these issues at a fundamental level. And hopefully you will realize this and enact some sort of reform before either comes to pass. Because take it from someone from the continent where they happen every few years. Revolutions suck.

I'm from HK but.. OJ got off because the lawyers were able to build a narrative that the police had doctored evidence as they were racists, which really wasn't helped by one of the initial three police on the scene being a literal Nazi.

OJ got off because the american court system is a theater system designed around presenting narratives to an audience of laymen as opposed to a system based on presenting evidence to a professional arbitrator. Basically the entire jury system is more akin to the ancient Greek and Roman legal systems where the "lawyers" for each side would take turns holding speeches to a crowd until the crowd swung one way.

[Freiheit Reich]

3. Racist: The fact they are a movement based entirely on the idea that race is the primary determinant of a persons character and fate in life. It's literally in their name.

I'm not following your logic here. Apparently saying police racism is bad is itself racism somehow.

Police racism is greatly exaggerated:

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/m ... no-n484099

Black lives matter is fine as long as they don't criticize those that say 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter' or 'Red Sox supporters lives matter' etc... BLM has basically become a movement that implies 'black lives matter over all other lives.'

[-Astoria-]

[

Black lives matter is fine as long as they don't criticize those that say 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter' or 'Red Sox supporters lives matter' etc... BLM has basically become a movement that implies 'black lives matter over all other lives.'

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I'm not following your logic here. Apparently saying police racism is bad is itself racism somehow.

Police racism is greatly exaggerated:

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/m ... no-n484099

Black lives matter is fine as long as they don't criticize those that say 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter' or 'Red Sox supporters lives matter' etc... BLM has basically become a movement that implies 'black lives matter over all other lives.'

Black lives matter as much as any other lives. If you want to protest alongside them, against police brutality against white people as well, WHAT IS STOPPING YOU?

"White lives matter" works just as well. What's stopping you?

[Ethel mermania]

Rioters should be punished. If someone who's car is being assaulted should have the right of self defense.

I am OK with this.

So if I spray-paint "OFF THE PIG" on the side of your car, you can shoot to kill in self-defence?

Not what the law says.

On a personal level, if i am in the car and being forceably detained while you do it? I have no problem with it.

[Freiheit Reich]

[

Black lives matter is fine as long as they don't criticize those that say 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter' or 'Red Sox supporters lives matter' etc... BLM has basically become a movement that implies 'black lives matter over all other lives.'

If whites are so racist and hateful towards blacks as BLM makes it seem then why is the percentage of blacks being murdered by whites so small? There are so many statistics that can be shown to support the idea that white people are not as racist as they are made out to be.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/7-statis ... on-bandler

Data shows that 93 percent of black homicide victims are killed by other blacks.

Perhaps the Florida governor know this and that is a reason he is not so supportive of the protests because he knows that there is no excuse for looting or attacking innocent drivers in this cause of 'anti-racism.'

[Ethel mermania]

-- edit--

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So if I spray-paint "OFF THE PIG" on the side of your car, you can shoot to kill in self-defence?

Not what the law says.

Good.

"If someone who's car is being assaulted should have the right of self defense."

I can imagine some kind of "assault" towards a car, with someone in it, which they would plausibly take as a threat to their life.

Not spray-painting, we agree. Being pushed or rolled towards a cliff, certainly.
Trying to set a fire around the car or under the car ... I think this is the point where it makes all the difference whether they can drive away or not.

"Assault" towards a vehicle probably isn't a thing, but I don't mind using it as a general word for deliberate damage up to making it unroadworthy.

Actions lie blockading the car front and back or jamming something in the wheels so driving is impossible would make the occupant very fearful of their future safety. But in some contexts would be entirely proportionate to prevent the driver injuring or killing anyone (ie be self defense).

[Freiheit Reich]

Police racism is greatly exaggerated:

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/m ... no-n484099

Black lives matter is fine as long as they don't criticize those that say 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter' or 'Red Sox supporters lives matter' etc... BLM has basically become a movement that implies 'black lives matter over all other lives.'

Black lives matter as much as any other lives. If you want to protest alongside them, against police brutality against white people as well, WHAT IS STOPPING YOU?

"White lives matter" works just as well. What's stopping you?

Because I support the police and I believe all lives matter, not just white or black ones. Most police officers are only moderately paid for a very hard (at least hard in big cities) and mostly thankless job. They get insulted constantly and they are called racist by liberal elites. They are handcuffed from doing their jobs by liberal big city mayors. Try reading a book about the NYPD and realize how much training they go through and how much thinking they have to do every day in their job. Yeah, a few police officers are corrupt and racist but we can say the same about every profession, even respected professions like politicians, judges, and church leaders. It is really sad how ignorant most BLM protesters are when it comes to knowing what the police go through.

I am glad at least a few politicians are standing up to the decent citizens that are being terrorized by BLM protesters and saying 'enough is enough.'

[Nobel Hobos 2]

If whites are so racist and hateful towards blacks as BLM makes it seem then why is the percentage of blacks being murdered by whites so small? There are so many statistics that can be shown to support the idea that white people are not as racist as they are made out to be.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/7-statis ... on-bandler

Data shows that 93 percent of black homicide victims are killed by other blacks.

Perhaps the Florida governor know this and that is a reason he is not so supportive of the protests because he knows that there is no excuse for looting or attacking innocent drivers in this cause of 'anti-racism.'

Police racism towards black people can't be disproved by showing that white murders of black people are a small proportion.

Actually that whites mainly kill other whites and blacks mainly kill other blacks ... shows that poor America is still effectively segregated. Whole other issue.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Black lives matter as much as any other lives. If you want to protest alongside them, against police brutality against white people as well, WHAT IS STOPPING YOU?

"White lives matter" works just as well. What's stopping you?

Because I support the police and I believe all lives matter, not just white or black ones. Most police officers are only moderately paid for a very hard (at least hard in big cities) and mostly thankless job. They get insulted constantly and they are called racist by liberal elites. They are handcuffed from doing their jobs by liberal big city mayors.

In other words, you don't give a fuck about people being beaten or killed by police.

If it was White Lives Matter doing all the protests, you'd be just as much against them, correct?

Try reading a book about the NYPD and realize how much training they go through and how much thinking they have to do every day in their job. Yeah, a few police officers are corrupt and racist but we can say the same about every profession, even respected professions like politicians, judges, and church leaders. It is really sad how ignorant most BLM protesters are when it comes to knowing what the police go through.

I am glad at least a few politicians are standing up to the decent citizens that are being terrorized by BLM protesters and saying 'enough is enough.'

It will be "enough" when those politicians begin doing something about the problems in policing. You think passing some new laws will stop this? No, only meeting the protesters' demands will stop this.

As to why the police should be the first to have racism purged from their ranks: because they have discretion in when to apply and when not to apply the law. Because they go armed on the streets of every city. And because they have near-perfect immunity to commit crimes including murder. They are the absolute worst part of society you want exercising systemic racism.