2020 US General Election Thread IX: One Month and Counting

[Telconi]

Yes, absolutely



Yes, absolutely

Anyone who doesn't share your beliefs shouldn't be allowed to run? That's not much of a democracy if your not going to allow opposing views to be represented or shared.

I disagree with many views other than the wanton violation of human rights, they're welcome to express those.

[Kannap]

Hate speech is not free speech.

The first amendment disagrees hence why the Nazi party or any other far right party hasn't been outlawed.

But they should be. And we should make it clear that hate speech isn't free speech.

Based on your standard if Im on the Board of Elections and you run for office and I think your views on democracy and how procedure should be thrown out because you find it annoying or think the people dont deserve a vote do I get to bar you from the ballot?

That's a nice strawman you have there, would be a shame if something were to happen to it.

[Estanglia]

To be fair, the fire in a theater thing is problematic, and probably legal.

But that point aside, we do restrict speech which causes eminent threat, Nazi rhetoric is by it's very nature eminently threatening.

Why was a literal Nazi allowed to run in Illinois in 2018 then?

...Why does a Nazi running in 2018 change anything?

[Telconi]

To be fair, the fire in a theater thing is problematic, and probably legal.

But that point aside, we do restrict speech which causes eminent threat, Nazi rhetoric is by it's very nature eminently threatening.

Why was a literal Nazi allowed to run in Illinois in 2018 then?

Because the government is shitty.

[San Lumen]

Anyone who doesn't share your beliefs shouldn't be allowed to run? That's not much of a democracy if your not going to allow opposing views to be represented or shared.

I disagree with many views other than the wanton violation of human rights, they're welcome to express those.

Yet you don't want anyone who has opposing beliefs to yours to be able to vote or hold office.

The first amendment disagrees hence why the Nazi party or any other far right party hasn't been outlawed.

But they should be. And we should make it clear that hate speech isn't free speech.

Based on your standard if Im on the Board of Elections and you run for office and I think your views on democracy and how procedure should be thrown out because you find it annoying or think the people dont deserve a vote do I get to bar you from the ballot?

That's a nice strawman you have there, would be a shame if something were to happen to it.

You said that pro life and people who want LGBT rights repealed shouldn't be allowed to run. How can you say you believe in democracy if you don't think those who disagree with you should be allowed to run?

[Dresderstan]

To be fair, the fire in a theater thing is problematic, and probably legal.

But that point aside, we do restrict speech which causes eminent threat, Nazi rhetoric is by it's very nature eminently threatening.

Why was a literal Nazi allowed to run in Illinois in 2018 then?

Because we have a shit and ineffective system that doesn't have good candidate vetting.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

But that point aside, we do restrict speech which causes eminent threat, Nazi rhetoric is by it's very nature eminently threatening.

Wait, what? Did I miss a Supreme Court ruling Antifa v. US?

There's a wide range of "Nazi rhetoric" and I'm quite sure it is not all banned.

[San Lumen]

Why was a literal Nazi allowed to run in Illinois in 2018 then?

Because the government is shitty.

He met the requirements of the office and had enough valid signatures to run. There was no legal way whatsoever to bar him from running. The same goes for any other far right nut job running this year.

[Telconi]

I disagree with many views other than the wanton violation of human rights, they're welcome to express those.

Yet you don't want anyone who has opposing beliefs to yours to be able to vote or hold office.

But they should be. And we should make it clear that hate speech isn't free speech.



That's a nice strawman you have there, would be a shame if something were to happen to it.

You said that pro life and people who want LGBT rights repealed shouldn't be allowed to run. How can you say you believe in democracy if you don't think those who disagree with you should be allowed to run?

I don't understand how you manage to get the exact opposite meaning from someone's statements. It's truly impressive.

[Telconi]

Because the government is shitty.

He met the requirements of the office and had enough valid signatures to run. There was no legal way whatsoever to bar him from running. The same goes for any other far right nut job running this year.

Yes, these are details as to why it's shitty.

[Estanglia]

Because the government is shitty.

He met the requirements of the office and had enough valid signatures to run. There was no legal way whatsoever to bar him from running. The same goes for any other far right nut job running this year.

And?

[West Leas Oros 2]

But that point aside, we do restrict speech which causes eminent threat, Nazi rhetoric is by it's very nature eminently threatening.

Wait, what? Did I miss a Supreme Court ruling Antifa v. US?

There's a wide range of "Nazi rhetoric" and I'm quite sure it is not all banned.

I’d pay to see a court case called that.

[Kannap]

Vague amendment is vague.

Am I being hateful or threatening because I call for actual electoral reform? That's not the same as calling for the deaths of gays, blacks and Jews, it's incomparable.

How is it vague? The qualifications to run for office are clear.

And we can make them clearer.

A number of Qanon supporters are running for office this year. Based on your standard they should be barred from running.

That's right

The nominees where chosen in the primary. In a democracy shouldn't the people be able to decide if they want said person in office?

You don't believe in people deciding whether or not they want a particular person in office, since you oppose recall elections.

[Kannap]

Yes, absolutely



Yes, absolutely

Anyone who doesn't share your beliefs shouldn't be allowed to run? That's not much of a democracy if your not going to allow opposing views to be represented or shared.

It's not so much that, it's more so that anybody with harmful beliefs should not be allowed to run.

[San Lumen]

Why was a literal Nazi allowed to run in Illinois in 2018 then?

Because we have a shit and ineffective system that doesn't have good candidate vetting.

Its not the job of the election board to do candidate vetting. Its up to the media, the other candidates themselves and ultimately the people. If someone meets the requirements of an office they are on the ballot no ifs ands or buts.

[Dresderstan]

Because the government is shitty.

He met the requirements of the office and had enough valid signatures to run. There was no legal way whatsoever to bar him from running. The same goes for any other far right nut job running this year.

He ran in a primary unopposed, something you have constantly said should not happen at all, why should he have run when he didn't even have a challenger face him?

[Dresderstan]

Because we have a shit and ineffective system that doesn't have good candidate vetting.

Its not the job of the election board to do candidate vetting. Its up to the media, the other candidates themselves and ultimately the people. If someone meets the requirements of an office they are on the ballot no ifs ands or buts.

No it should be the election board and the party otherwise they can get fucked for all I care.

[Telconi]

Because we have a shit and ineffective system that doesn't have good candidate vetting.

Its not the job of the election board to do candidate vetting. Its up to the media, the other candidates themselves and ultimately the people. If someone meets the requirements of an office they are on the ballot no ifs ands or buts.

So who decides who meets those requirements?

[Kannap]

Let me just go exercise my constitutional right to yell "fire" in a theater or "shooter" in a crowded mall.

That should seriously be legal. Anyone who sprains their ankle or thinks they caught a horrible disease from falling in the mall fountain, would be able to sue you. That's enough disincentive for you to speak so irresponsibly.

My problem with fines or the concept of suing as punishment for crime is that it just means crimes are legal for rich people.

[San Lumen]

How is it vague? The qualifications to run for office are clear.

And we can make them clearer.

A number of Qanon supporters are running for office this year. Based on your standard they should be barred from running.

That's right

The nominees where chosen in the primary. In a democracy shouldn't the people be able to decide if they want said person in office?

You don't believe in people deciding whether or not they want a particular person in office, since you oppose recall elections.

What are you going to add to said qualifications?

It's up to the people to decide who they want the nominee to be in a given election and then if they want that person to hold the job. The people of Delaware nominated a Qanon person to run for senate and Governor. They liked what they were selling. Why do you hate democracy?

[Kannap]

To be fair, the fire in a theater thing is problematic, and probably legal.

But that point aside, we do restrict speech which causes eminent threat, Nazi rhetoric is by it's very nature eminently threatening.

Why was a literal Nazi allowed to run in Illinois in 2018 then?

American democracy has already failed.

[Kannap]

Anyone who doesn't share your beliefs shouldn't be allowed to run? That's not much of a democracy if your not going to allow opposing views to be represented or shared.

I disagree with many views other than the wanton violation of human rights, they're welcome to express those.

This, exactly.

[Estanglia]

And we can make them clearer.





That's right



You don't believe in people deciding whether or not they want a particular person in office, since you oppose recall elections.

What are you going to add to said qualifications?

It's up to the people to decide who they want the nominee to be in a given election and then if they want that person to hold the job. The people of Delaware nominated a Qanon person to run for senate and Governor. They liked what they were selling. Why do you hate democracy?

Would you be okay with a convicted criminal running for office?

If the answer is "no", do you not hate democracy?

If you don't hate democracy, why is it hating democracy to bar hateful people from running but not convicted criminals?

[Dresderstan]

And we can make them clearer.





That's right



You don't believe in people deciding whether or not they want a particular person in office, since you oppose recall elections.

What are you going to add to said qualifications?

It's up to the people to decide who they want the nominee to be in a given election and then if they want that person to hold the job. The people of Delaware nominated a Qanon person to run for senate and Governor. They liked what they were selling. Why do you hate democracy?

Says the person who hates recall election and Proportional representation.

[San Lumen]

He met the requirements of the office and had enough valid signatures to run. There was no legal way whatsoever to bar him from running. The same goes for any other far right nut job running this year.

He ran in a primary unopposed, something you have constantly said should not happen at all, why should he have run when he didn't even have a challenger face him?

its too blue of a seat for any Republican to win.

Its not the job of the election board to do candidate vetting. Its up to the media, the other candidates themselves and ultimately the people. If someone meets the requirements of an office they are on the ballot no ifs ands or buts.

No it should be the election board and the party otherwise they can get fucked for all I care.

Its not their job to determine someones political beliefs and make decisions on who can run based on that. They are supposed to be non partisan.

Why didnt the Republican parties where Qanon people ran and got the nomination allow them to run? Why didn't they sue to get them tossed off the ballot? They would lose in court.

Why shouldn't it be up to the people to decide who they want in a primary and general election? Oh that's right you hate the very concept of democracy.