2020 US General Election Thread IX: One Month and Counting

[West Leas Oros 2]

The most famous one "a vote third party is a wasted vote", or "there aren't other options, only democrat and republican". Over time, these ideas got so ingrained in the public consciousness that now people spread their propaganda for them.

Indeed. Like if only a green or libertarian was potus because everything would change.

Nah, they'd be powerless if congress were still establishment controlled.

[San Lumen]

So despite the spoiler effect and split opposition votes being demonstrable statistics, it's all a lie crafted to destroy third parties.

If that were true, how come other countries don't have these problems.

They have viable third parties that have built themselves over decades. Third parties in the US are largely a joke. They dont run viable candidates or run campaigns to make them viable.

[The Black Forrest]

Shouldn't inappropriately be one word?

Yes it should. Still worth a chuckle though. Suppose I could’ve made one...

Hmmm? I missed the funny part.

[West Leas Oros 2]

The most famous one "a vote third party is a wasted vote", or "there aren't other options, only democrat and republican". Over time, these ideas got so ingrained in the public consciousness that now people spread their propaganda for them.

In most cases it is. The third party candidate isn't viable or barely runs a campaign. That is a wasted vote.

That's mostly because they don't get funding because they don't have the massive party monoliths or the big corporations to back them up. Why try when the big two can just buy their way to victory?

[West Leas Oros 2]

If that were true, how come other countries don't have these problems.

They have viable third parties that have built themselves over decades. Third parties in the US are largely a joke. They dont run viable candidates or run campaigns to make them viable.

Again, I'd like you to think about why that is. Yes, it will take decades, but if those parties in other countries just gave up, they wouldn't be here today. This is only more reason to give third parties a chance. They haven't had decades to build themselves, because the big parties control the money and the narrative.

[San Lumen]

They have viable third parties that have built themselves over decades. Third parties in the US are largely a joke. They dont run viable candidates or run campaigns to make them viable.

Again, I'd like you to think about why that is.

It has nothing to do with the mass conspiracy you seem to think it is.

[Cannot think of a name]

The most famous one "a vote third party is a wasted vote", or "there aren't other options, only democrat and republican". Over time, these ideas got so ingrained in the public consciousness that now people spread their propaganda for them.

Indeed. Like if only a green or libertarian was potus because everything would change.

Even the Green and Libertarian Parties don’t want to win the presidency, they just want that golden 5% so they can build up the coalition they need to be an actual national party...then they’ll run a serious candidate for president. Until then they might as well run a cardboard cutout.

[The Black Forrest]

Indeed. Like if only a green or libertarian was potus because everything would change.

Nah, they'd be powerless if congress were still establishment controlled.

It’s called grass roots building. That of course takes time and effort. Only the quick fix is wanted.

[Eukaryotic Cells]

If I'm Trump heading into these debates, I would focus on the following:

1) Hit Biden on trade policy. This is one area where Biden is vulnerable, and it's important in several battleground states.

Counterpunch on how much Trump’s rearranging deck chairs ended up hurting farmers and other workers in those key areas and how much of Trump’s focus was on flattery rather than results.

2) Try to provoke gaffes or mumbling from Biden. Carefully study if there's anything which triggers this.

No set up or counterpunch needed here, just wait for some absolutely batshit thing to come out of Trump’s mouth on purpose that will easily overshadow a guy with a stutter making an awkward word choice.

3) Try to survive the round of questions about COVID. Don't let Biden beat you over the head with this.

Beat Trump over the head with his absolutely terrible response to COVID and its ever increasing death count while the president instead focuses on other shit and pretend the pandemic is over.

"China is bad, and Biden let China into the WTO" will be a convincing line of attack, even though I don't agree with the assumptions behind it.

Trump being rambling/incoherent/batshit has no effect. People expect it at this point, or don't care about it. Trump's team will make a bunch of "Biden is senile" attack ads if Biden stumbles at any point.

If Biden goes after Trump effectively on COVID, he could score some big hits on him. This is Trump's main vulnerability, I think.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Again, I'd like you to think about why that is.

It has nothing to do with the mass conspiracy you seem to think it is.

It's not a conspiracy. It's just money in politics. Shaking up the status quo doesn't pay, so the corporate powers that be continue to support the big, neoliberal establishment. It's not a conspiracy, it's cold hard cash.

[Kannap]

The most famous one "a vote third party is a wasted vote", or "there aren't other options, only democrat and republican". Over time, these ideas got so ingrained in the public consciousness that now people spread their propaganda for them.

In most cases it is. The third party candidate isn't viable or barely runs a campaign. That is a wasted vote.

Except if somebody is voting for the person they believe would be best for the job, it's not a wasted vote.

Though electoralism is a joke anyway.

[The Black Forrest]

Indeed. Like if only a green or libertarian was potus because everything would change.

Even the Green and Libertarian Parties don’t want to win the presidency, they just want that golden 5% so they can build up the coalition they need to be an actual national party...then they’ll run a serious candidate for president. Until then they might as well run a cardboard cutout.

There won’t be a serious candidate without building a base across the country. People don’t swap parties willynilly. The old devil you know is in play....

[West Leas Oros 2]

Nah, they'd be powerless if congress were still establishment controlled.

It’s called grass roots building. That of course takes time and effort. Only the quick fix is wanted.

So then why does this thread oppose third parties doing grass roots campaigns?

[Cannot think of a name]

Nah, they'd be powerless if congress were still establishment controlled.

It’s called grass roots building. That of course takes time and effort. Only the quick fix is wanted.

My main beef with self satisfied and identified ‘third party’ folks who ever four years discuss the third party candidate as a serious option just as a chip to get them out of the conversation about current politics. If you’re not there on off years voting way, way down ballot for Greens or whatever in winnable seats, get off my lawn.

[Greater Miami Shores]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/joe-biden-accuses-donald-trump-silence-dictator-lukashenko-belarus-n1241177

Joe Biden accuses Donald Trump of silence on 'dictator' Lukashenko in Belarus. Lukashenko was abruptly inaugurated this week in what Biden called a "sham ceremony."

I want to add a few comments to my previous post I quoted you on, so I included my previous comments below after these new comments:

I bet a President Biden would not break economic, political, cultural and tourist diplomatic relations with Belarus dictator, Lukashenko, despite accusing Trump of having those diplomatic relations.

Even Democrats President and Vice President Joe Biden had those diplomatic relations with Belarus dictator Lukashenko.

The USA under Democrats President Obama, and Vice President Joe Biden had those diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia and many more such nations.

But my fellow Republicans and I wish to see President Trump win, you and your friends wish to see Biden win.

Now my Previous comments:
Democrat Joe Biden is a Hypocrite. Strongly criticized Bernie's praise of Fidel and Cuba for political reasons, while he supports friendly, economic, political, cultural and tourist diplomatic relations with the communist Castro revolutionary eternal dictators regime, that calls itself so, that says we are the continuity of the revolution, this statement says it all. The Same Policy of Democrat Obama. See Democrat Joe Biden is a Political Hypocrite too.

Joe Biden and the Democrats play politics too, they both do it, in politics everything works both ways, this is a FACT and I am not lying.

[West Leas Oros 2]

In most cases it is. The third party candidate isn't viable or barely runs a campaign. That is a wasted vote.

Except if somebody is voting for the person they believe would be best for the job, it's not a wasted vote.

Though electoralism is a joke anyway.

Considering that people play apologia for oligarchs and then turn around and claim the third parties are the ones hurting democracy, yeah, it kind of is.

[Cannot think of a name]

Even the Green and Libertarian Parties don’t want to win the presidency, they just want that golden 5% so they can build up the coalition they need to be an actual national party...then they’ll run a serious candidate for president. Until then they might as well run a cardboard cutout.

There won’t be a serious candidate without building a base across the country. People don’t swap parties willynilly. The old devil you know is in play....

That’s what I meant by coalition.

[West Leas Oros 2]

It’s called grass roots building. That of course takes time and effort. Only the quick fix is wanted.

My main beef with self satisfied and identified ‘third party’ folks who ever four years discuss the third party candidate as a serious option just as a chip to get them out of the conversation about current politics. If you’re not there on off years voting way, way down ballot for Greens or whatever in winnable seats, get off my lawn.

Sure. Good thing most people aren't like that.

[Dresderstan]

Except if somebody is voting for the person they believe would be best for the job, it's not a wasted vote.

Though electoralism is a joke anyway.

Considering that people play apologia for oligarchs and then turn around and claim the third parties are the ones hurting democracy, yeah, it kind of is.

The ones hurting Democracy are the two big parties, their corporate shills payrolling them, the corporatist media and the elitists of them all, and the brainwashed idiocy of the American electorate who have bought the message of "third party bad" because how dare someone try to break the duopoly that is killing this country.

[San Lumen]

In most cases it is. The third party candidate isn't viable or barely runs a campaign. That is a wasted vote.

Except if somebody is voting for the person they believe would be best for the job, it's not a wasted vote.

Though electoralism is a joke anyway.

That could happen in Indiana for governor. The Libertarian candidate could get a significant portion of the vote.

[Kannap]

Except if somebody is voting for the person they believe would be best for the job, it's not a wasted vote.

Though electoralism is a joke anyway.

That could happen in Indiana for governor. The Libertarian candidate could get a significant portion of the vote.

Not sure how that's relevant to what I said, but good for that candidate I guess.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Considering that people play apologia for oligarchs and then turn around and claim the third parties are the ones hurting democracy, yeah, it kind of is.

The ones hurting Democracy are the two big parties, their corporate shills payrolling them, the corporatist media and the elitists of them all, and the brainwashed idiocy of the American electorate who have bought the message of "third party bad" because how dare someone try to break the duopoly that is killing this country.

Follow the money. That's all I'll say. Democracy is the eternal enemy of moneyed interests.

[Cannot think of a name]

My main beef with self satisfied and identified ‘third party’ folks who ever four years discuss the third party candidate as a serious option just as a chip to get them out of the conversation about current politics. If you’re not there on off years voting way, way down ballot for Greens or whatever in winnable seats, get off my lawn.

Sure. Good thing most people aren't like that.

Well, I only have NSG as my sample size with ‘third party’ people for the most part only emerging every four years to be smug dicks about the election and acting like the actual candidates matter. I won’t pretend to have taken a survey.

[San Lumen]

That could happen in Indiana for governor. The Libertarian candidate could get a significant portion of the vote.

Not sure how that's relevant to what I said, but good for that candidate I guess.

the latest poll showed it but we might get a new one soon.

[The Black Forrest]

It’s called grass roots building. That of course takes time and effort. Only the quick fix is wanted.

So then why does this thread oppose third parties doing grass roots campaigns?

They aren’t doing grass roots campaigns. It’s just bitching about the two party conspiracy.

Mind you; nothing wrong with saying vote green. Just like people saying considering how bad trump and the republicans are...it’s a waste of a vote.