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2020 US General Election Thread IX: One Month and Counting

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Will the Third Debate Even Happen?

Yes
27
16%
No
61
36%
I Don't Know
36
21%
Too Early to Say
44
26%
 
Total votes : 168

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:30 am

Valrifell wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
Make it retroactive to 2017.


I was catching up on the thread so I don't know if this was addressed, but ex post facto (retroactive) laws are unconstitutional. See Article 1 Section 9 and Article 1 Section 10 for the ban on retroactive laws for federal and state governments respectively.

So you could pass a new Judiciary Act downsizing the court and say "Kavanaugh and Gorsuch aren't justices anymore hah ha! We win!" but then what would happen is that absolutely no one would buy that since the constitutional law is clear. There were 9 seats at appointment, not 7, you can't retroactively say there were only 7 relevant seats and that the two latest appointments are illegitimate, that's not how that works.

You'd cause a constitutional crisis is what you'd do.


That's pretty strong I think.

Added to which, the Constitution provides no way for Congress to remove judges other than the impeachment process. Removing them by a retroactive law declaring them to have been never duly appointed, would achieve the same as impeachment+removal but without the 2/3 supermajority required in the Senate. If such an easy way to remove justices was envisioned then it would surely have been mentioned. And surely have been used, too.

In 1801 the Court was reduced from 6 to 5 but the legislation stipulated that it be done by 'attrition' and after an election the law was changed back without any of the seats becoming vacant. The Act did have effect of allowing President Adams to appoint 16 "midnight judges" to new seats on the circuit courts. It was pretty much a constitutional crisis, but leading to the Marbury v. Madison ruling it shows that crises are not always bad!
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:30 am

Kowani wrote:
Ifreann wrote:He said to Trump's face what most of the world has been shouting at their TV for the last five years.



Republicans kinda hate Mister Rogers for teaching children that they're special just the way they are. That reads to Republicans as entitlement, to them you can't just be special, you have to earn it.

“Muh snowflakes”

Basically, yeah.

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:32 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Ngl I think the high point of this whole election season and the one I'll remember most is Biden simply saying "Will you shut up man?".

That so perfectly captures this presidency.

That honestly made me like Biden a little tbh. Like yeah its rude but man have I wanted to scream that in Trumps face.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:43 am

Andsed wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Ngl I think the high point of this whole election season and the one I'll remember most is Biden simply saying "Will you shut up man?".

That so perfectly captures this presidency.

That honestly made me like Biden a little tbh. Like yeah its rude but man have I wanted to scream that in Trumps face.


It was rude but in an old-fashioned gentlemanly way.

There must be a hundred other ways to say "shut up" and most of them ruder. "Shut up" is time-honoured!
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:51 am

Valrifell wrote:
Jerzylvania wrote:
Make it retroactive to 2017.


I was catching up on the thread so I don't know if this was addressed, but ex post facto (retroactive) laws are unconstitutional. See Article 1 Section 9 and Article 1 Section 10 for the ban on retroactive laws for federal and state governments respectively.

So you could pass a new Judiciary Act downsizing the court and say "Kavanaugh and Gorsuch aren't justices anymore hah ha! We win!" but then what would happen is that absolutely no one would buy that since the constitutional law is clear. There were 9 seats at appointment, not 7, you can't retroactively say there were only 7 relevant seats and that the two latest appointments are illegitimate, that's not how that works.

You'd cause a constitutional crisis is what you'd do.

And I’d drive right over it. What are they going to do arrest me?
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:54 am

Andsed wrote:That honestly made me like Biden a little tbh. Like yeah its rude but man have I wanted to scream that in Trumps face.

"Shut up" is actually mild compared to the rest of the arsenal in the English language. I would have brought out the biggest bombs if I had been in Biden's place, but that hostile temperament is probably why I'm an angry Internet commentator and not a leader.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:55 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
I was catching up on the thread so I don't know if this was addressed, but ex post facto (retroactive) laws are unconstitutional. See Article 1 Section 9 and Article 1 Section 10 for the ban on retroactive laws for federal and state governments respectively.

So you could pass a new Judiciary Act downsizing the court and say "Kavanaugh and Gorsuch aren't justices anymore hah ha! We win!" but then what would happen is that absolutely no one would buy that since the constitutional law is clear. There were 9 seats at appointment, not 7, you can't retroactively say there were only 7 relevant seats and that the two latest appointments are illegitimate, that's not how that works.

You'd cause a constitutional crisis is what you'd do.

And I’d drive right over it. What are they going to do arrest me?

They will simply cast a magic spell to seal you away in the Shadow Realm for all eternity.

Oh, sorry, are we not playing pretend?

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:03 am

Ifreann wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:And I’d drive right over it. What are they going to do arrest me?

They will simply cast a magic spell to seal you away in the Shadow Realm for all eternity.

Oh, sorry, are we not playing pretend?

Well it’s not really pretend when it’s happened before, with Old Hickory telling the court to go fuck themselves. Hell a lot of our system is based on unenforced precedent and tradition and is super easy to break as Trump has shown.

Besides what’s the problem with us saying how we’d change the system.
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Postby Page » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:04 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Andsed wrote:That honestly made me like Biden a little tbh. Like yeah its rude but man have I wanted to scream that in Trumps face.


It was rude but in an old-fashioned gentlemanly way.

There must be a hundred other ways to say "shut up" and most of them ruder. "Shut up" is time-honoured!


Honestly I'm sick of decorum altogether. I want to hear politicians talk to each other like South Park kids.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:06 am

Page wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
It was rude but in an old-fashioned gentlemanly way.

There must be a hundred other ways to say "shut up" and most of them ruder. "Shut up" is time-honoured!


Honestly I'm sick of decorum altogether. I want to hear politicians talk to each other like South Park kids.

Elect me to congress and I’ll make your dream come true. The censors will blush
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:08 am

Page wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
It was rude but in an old-fashioned gentlemanly way.

There must be a hundred other ways to say "shut up" and most of them ruder. "Shut up" is time-honoured!


Honestly I'm sick of decorum altogether. I want to hear politicians talk to each other like South Park kids.


Ah the good old days, when the sitting Secretary of State called the sitting Vice President a hermaphrodite, and nobody thought it was weird.
Last edited by Tarsonis on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:11 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:They will simply cast a magic spell to seal you away in the Shadow Realm for all eternity.

Oh, sorry, are we not playing pretend?

Well it’s not really pretend when it’s happened before, with Old Hickory telling the court to go fuck themselves. Hell a lot of our system is based on unenforced precedent and tradition and is super easy to break as Trump has shown.

Besides what’s the problem with us saying how we’d change the system.

Discussing how one thinks the government should function and fantasising about wielding dictatorial power are pretty obviously not the same thing.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:14 am

Ifreann wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Well it’s not really pretend when it’s happened before, with Old Hickory telling the court to go fuck themselves. Hell a lot of our system is based on unenforced precedent and tradition and is super easy to break as Trump has shown.

Besides what’s the problem with us saying how we’d change the system.

Discussing how one thinks the government should function and fantasising about wielding dictatorial power are pretty obviously not the same thing.

The only one who thinks everyone is fantasizing is you. All I’m saying is what I’d do in such a situation. No different than others saying they try to pack the court if they where President
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:18 am

So, people from Texas are claiming that places that should be open till 1900 to vote pretend to be closed after 1700 for people who "look liberal" (e.g. by having fancy haircolours).

Can any locals shed some light if there is any truth to that voter supression ?
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Greater Miami Shores
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:23 am

The Alma Mater wrote:So, people from Texas are claiming that places that should be open till 1900 to vote pretend to be closed after 1700 for people who "look liberal" (e.g. by having fancy haircolours).

Can any locals shed some light if there is any truth to that voter supression ?

I don't know, but it sounds too me like just talk.

Just rumor talk.
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:26 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Ngl I think the high point of this whole election season and the one I'll remember most is Biden simply saying "Will you shut up man?".

That so perfectly captures this presidency.


That was the best moment of the debate. He said what many people were thinking.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:27 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:So, people from Texas are claiming that places that should be open till 1900 to vote pretend to be closed after 1700 for people who "look liberal" (e.g. by having fancy haircolours).

Can any locals shed some light if there is any truth to that voter supression ?

I don't know, but it sounds too me like just talk.

Just rumor talk.


I hope so. I have seen several verified stories of youngsters having their papers destroyed by their republican parents so they cannot vote democrat - but that is just stupid shitbags being stupid (and criminal).

State officials actively trying to hinder people to vote for a specific candidate would be.. well... typically American. But bad.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:28 am

The Alma Mater wrote:So, people from Texas are claiming that places that should be open till 1900 to vote pretend to be closed after 1700 for people who "look liberal" (e.g. by having fancy haircolours).

Can any locals shed some light if there is any truth to that voter supression ?


You have proof of this? Wouldn't that be a from of profiling? Not only that its blatant discrimination.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:29 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:I don't know, but it sounds too me like just talk.

Just rumor talk.


I hope so. I have seen several verified stories of youngsters having their papers destroyed by their republican parents so they cannot vote democrat - but that is just stupid shitbags being stupid (and criminal).

State officials actively trying to hinder people to vote for a specific candidate would be.. well... typically American. But bad.


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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:31 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Andsed wrote:That honestly made me like Biden a little tbh. Like yeah its rude but man have I wanted to scream that in Trumps face.


It was rude but in an old-fashioned gentlemanly way.

There must be a hundred other ways to say "shut up" and most of them ruder. "Shut up" is time-honoured!

Trump is no gentleman, it was on my previous sig. But Biden's insults at President Trump, like shut up man, stop yapping man, and clown, were not in an old-fashion gentlemanly way of any kind. I compared it on NS, to a boxing fight, The Thrilla in Manila, with the Greatest Muhammed Ali and Joe Frazier.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:32 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Ngl I think the high point of this whole election season and the one I'll remember most is Biden simply saying "Will you shut up man?".

That so perfectly captures this presidency.


Tens of millions of viewers felt this way. It was the proverbial punch in the face to the bully.
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:36 am

Ifreann wrote:
Kowani wrote:“Muh snowflakes”

Basically, yeah.

As a Republicans we strongly disagree.

I know I can speak for us as one of us.

I have even been called this name on NS a few times, and much worse.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:38 am

Jerzylvania wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Ngl I think the high point of this whole election season and the one I'll remember most is Biden simply saying "Will you shut up man?".

That so perfectly captures this presidency.


Tens of millions of viewers felt this way. It was the proverbial punch in the face to the bully.


"Just shut up, man." - President Joe Biden to his predecessor, 2020
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Postby Jerzylvania » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:39 am

The Archregimancy wrote:I know I said I wouldn't post in this thread as an ordinary poster anymore, but given the misconceptions and hypocrisy over this issue, I think it's important to post the below.


Republicans Are Enthusiastic about Court Packing

Although Republicans are universally warning how undemocratic it would be for Democrats to expand the U.S. Supreme Court next year, at the state level they are wildly enthusiastic about the idea. Strange. Oddly, their views on court packing seem to correlate rather strongly with who is doing the packing. Here is a state-by-state rundown on recent attempts to pack state supreme courts, some successful and some not.

Alabama: For some reason, in 2009, the Democratic majority leader introduced a bill to slim down the state Supreme Court from nine to seven justices. However, all nine were Republican appointees, so it is not clear what he was up to. The bill failed.

Arizona: In 2016, Arizona Republicans successfully expanded the Arizona Supreme Court from five to seven justices over the objections of the chief justice. The state's Republican governor picked the new justices. The bill's (Republican) sponsor let the cat out of the bag when he said: "If there were a different person appointing [the justices], I might feel less comfortable."

Georgia: In 2016, Republicans in the state legislature pushed through a bill allowing then-governor Nathan Deal (R) to add two more justices to the seven-member state Supreme Court. Deal's lawyer said that he hoped the new court would make more decisions favorable to businesses.

Florida: In 2007, the Republican-controlled Florida legislature attempted to increase the state Supreme Court from seven to 15 justices because they were upset about a ruling it had made on school vouchers. It failed. In 2011, the legislature tried again and failed again.

Iowa: After the state Supreme Court struck down the state's ban on same-sex marriage in 2009, Republicans in the legislature attempted to pack the court by adding two more justices. That didn't work because Democrats controlled the legislature at the time.

Louisiana: In 2017, a Democrat introduced a bill to expand the Louisiana Supreme Court from seven to nine justices. It failed.

Montana: In 2011, Republicans in the state legislature attempted to unpack the state's top court by removing the two most liberal justices. They were completely open about their motives. Nevertheless, the bill died in committee.

Oklahoma: Same story in Oklahoma, only this time the unpacking would have reduced the number of justices from nine to five, eliminating four Democratic appointees. The effort failed.

Pennsylvania: In 2014, the Republicans in the state legislature introduced a bill to shrink government, including eliminating the office of the lieutenant governor, reducing the size of the general assembly, and also the size of the state Supreme Court. Just by chance, all of these changes would have benefited the Republicans. It didn't make it.

South Carolina: From 1995 to 2010, Democratic state senator Robert Ford kept introducing a bill to expand the top court from five to seven justices. It kept failing. Since 2013, Republicans have been trying to pack the court and have kept failing.

Washington: In 2013, Republicans attempted to get rid of four Democratic appointees on the nine-member Supreme Court after the court shot down a Republican-imposed restriction on tax hikes. The Brennan Center for Justice characterized the move as a threat to judicial independence. It failed.

In nearly all the cases above, increasing or decreasing the size of the state Supreme Court would have helped the Republicans. Often the ideological balance of the Court was at stake. Clearly at the state level, the Republicans have been playing ideological hardball with the courts and sometimes succeeding. It would be hypocritical in the extreme if they condemned Democrats in a potential Biden administration for doing at the federal level what they have been actively trying to do at the state level for years. Needless to say, they will say that packing the state Supreme Courts with Republicans is completely different from packing the U.S. Supreme Court with Democrats. But it follows the same hallowed principle: It is legal and we have the power to do it so we will do it.


https://electoral-vote.com/#item-9


Absolutely spot on.
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Greater Miami Shores
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:40 am

Jerzylvania wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Ngl I think the high point of this whole election season and the one I'll remember most is Biden simply saying "Will you shut up man?".

That so perfectly captures this presidency.


Tens of millions of viewers felt this way. It was the proverbial punch in the face to the bully.

Yes, I am sure Democrats and Democrat supporters loved it.

I am sure Democrats and Democrat supporters strongly agree with you.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
I once tried to K Me. Posted It and Reported. Locked by Mods. I am Autistic accounts for Repetitive Nature. I am Very Civil and Respectful to all on NS and off NS. My Opinions Are Not Bad Opinions No Ones Opinions Are Bad Opinons. We are on NS, to share, discuss, argue, disagree, on Trump, elections, Republicans, Democrats, Socialists, Libertarians and whatevers, with respect. This Respect Is Given It Is Not Earned, This Respect Is Called Freedom of Expression and Democracy. This Man Always Says What He Means, I Am The Real Thing. I Make Ted Cruz look like a Leftist. I have been on NS For over 10 Years with a Perfect Record of No Baiting, Trolling, Flaming, or Using Foul Language. I Am Very Proud of It and Wish To Keep My Record Clean. But I Am Not The Only One On NS. GMS. I'm Based.

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