LGBT Issues/Support Thread

[Ifreann]

I don't think you need to make excuses for having been a liberal until a few years ago.

Why is that?

Liberalism was doing pretty well for itself for most of your life. Makes sense to see the gay marriage and healthcare president getting ripped for wearing a tan suit or liking fancy mustard and to think that he's got the good politics. I certainly did, especially when he came after the dopey war guy.

[Sordhau]

Why is that?

Liberalism was doing pretty well for itself for most of your life. Makes sense to see the gay marriage and healthcare president getting ripped for wearing a tan suit or liking fancy mustard and to think that he's got the good politics. I certainly did, especially when he came after the dopey war guy.

*Liberalism was good at hiding how shit it was you mean. And it still is as evidenced by the plethora of people who think voting blue will somehow make a difference.

[North Korea Choson]

Liberalism was doing pretty well for itself for most of your life. Makes sense to see the gay marriage and healthcare president getting ripped for wearing a tan suit or liking fancy mustard and to think that he's got the good politics. I certainly did, especially when he came after the dopey war guy.

*Liberalism was good at hiding how shit it was you mean. And it still is as evidenced by the plethora of people who think voting blue will somehow make a difference.

I won't vote red until I see a liberal Republican.

[Sordhau]

*Liberalism was good at hiding how shit it was you mean. And it still is as evidenced by the plethora of people who think voting blue will somehow make a difference.

I won't vote red until I see a liberal Republican.

What if I told you there were more effective means of implementing real, lasting change than voting.

[Transsibiria]

Why is that?

Liberalism was doing pretty well for itself for most of your life. Makes sense to see the gay marriage and healthcare president getting ripped for wearing a tan suit or liking fancy mustard and to think that he's got the good politics. I certainly did, especially when he came after the dopey war guy.

To be fair almost everyone was somehow liberal in one way or another until around the year 2015 when things started to change.

[Mattopilos III]

I won't vote red until I see a liberal Republican.

What if I told you there were more effective means of implementing real, lasting change than voting.

B-but voting is what makes the most change!

*ignores all the riots, protests, and events that have led to any votes that made huge change being held in the first place, and not all of those events went to a vote - they just passed laws for fairer work or the likes*

[Mattopilos III]

Why is that?

Liberalism was doing pretty well for itself for most of your life. Makes sense to see the gay marriage and healthcare president getting ripped for wearing a tan suit or liking fancy mustard and to think that he's got the good politics. I certainly did, especially when he came after the dopey war guy.

But liberalism as a concept is broad, and it includes many people with contradicting views.
"Liberalism was doing well" could mean... a lot of things.

[Sordhau]

Liberalism was doing pretty well for itself for most of your life. Makes sense to see the gay marriage and healthcare president getting ripped for wearing a tan suit or liking fancy mustard and to think that he's got the good politics. I certainly did, especially when he came after the dopey war guy.

But liberalism as a concept is broad, and it includes many people with contradicting views.
"Liberalism was doing well" could mean... a lot of things.

Liberalism is the dominant ideology on the planet to the point that the overwhelming majority of political parties are some form of Liberal.

[Drongonia]

Liberalism is the dominant ideology on the planet to the point that the overwhelming majority of political parties are some form of Liberal.

Eugh, l*beralism

[Mattopilos III]

But liberalism as a concept is broad, and it includes many people with contradicting views.
"Liberalism was doing well" could mean... a lot of things.

Liberalism is the dominant ideology on the planet to the point that the overwhelming majority of political parties are some form of Liberal.

That... doesn't counter what I said. There's many "liberal" ideologies, and many non-liberal (labelled) ideologies that themselves were influenced by liberal theory.
So it means very little when you just say "liberalism is the dominant ideology" or "liberalism has been successful for a long time."
That covers A LOT of things.

[Transsibiria]

Liberalism is the dominant ideology on the planet to the point that the overwhelming majority of political parties are some form of Liberal.

No it isn't. Thats an very americentric viewpoint. If you look beyond the US and the western nations the picture looks stark differently. It certainly isn't in the islamic world or in China for example.

[Drongonia]

So it means very little when you just say "liberalism is the dominant ideology" or "liberalism has been successful for a long time."

It is though, the entire Western global hegemony (or Global American Empire as some call it) runs on a globalist, liberal capitalist ideology. Regardless of the social and economic tweaking around the edges that each nation has.

For example, Australia's dominant social ideology is a little more conservative than somewhere like Canada or New Zealand, but is still liberal.

New Zealand's economy is more socialist and has more state interference than other Anglosphere states, but it's kept within the borders of liberal capitalism for better or worse.

Obviously none of this applies for non-first world nations. Not that America won't wage wars to try and implant its ideology on these nations, though.

[Mattopilos III]

Liberalism is the dominant ideology on the planet to the point that the overwhelming majority of political parties are some form of Liberal.

No it isn't. Thats an very americentric viewpoint. If you look beyond the US and the western nations the picture looks stark differently. It certainly isn't in the islamic world or in China for example.

Russia, Cuba, DPRK, China...
And even then, Europe has quite a few successful non-liberal parties.
See: Italy, Scandinavia.

[Sordhau]

Liberalism is the dominant ideology on the planet to the point that the overwhelming majority of political parties are some form of Liberal.

That... doesn't counter what I said. There's many "liberal" ideologies, and many non-liberal (labelled) ideologies that themselves were influenced by liberal theory.
So it means very little when you just say "liberalism is the dominant ideology" or "liberalism has been successful for a long time."
That covers A LOT of things.

>liberalism is the dominant ideology
>"Yes but what does that MEAN?"

Are you for real bro?

Liberalism is the dominant ideology on the planet to the point that the overwhelming majority of political parties are some form of Liberal.

No it isn't. Thats an very americentric viewpoint. If you look beyond the US and the western nations the picture looks stark differently. It certainly isn't in the islamic world or in China for example.

It's not remotely Americentric. Pretty much every country with a Western-style liberal democracy (i.e. the overwhelming majority of countries on the planet) is ruled by some form of liberal party or another.

There are very few exceptions.

[Mattopilos III]

That... doesn't counter what I said. There's many "liberal" ideologies, and many non-liberal (labelled) ideologies that themselves were influenced by liberal theory.
So it means very little when you just say "liberalism is the dominant ideology" or "liberalism has been successful for a long time."
That covers A LOT of things.

>liberalism is the dominant ideology
>"Yes but what does that MEAN?"

Are you for real bro?

Yes, because it is a broad area of theory/ideology. "Liberalism" can mean many things because it is that broad.

[Sordhau]

>liberalism is the dominant ideology
>"Yes but what does that MEAN?"

Are you for real bro?

Yes, because it is a broad area of theory/ideology. "Liberalism" can mean many things because it is that broad.

Yes and I think it's rather clear that when I say "Liberalism is the dominant ideology" that I'm using the broadest possible definition of Liberalism.

[Transsibiria]

It's not remotely Americentric. Pretty much every country with a Western-style liberal democracy (i.e. the overwhelming majority of countries on the planet) is ruled by some form of liberal party or another.

There are very few exceptions.

Hard disagree.

Just because for example Turkmenistan is officially a presidential republic whose constitution is based on a western, liberal framework, it says little about their actual political realities.

[Mattopilos III]

Yes, because it is a broad area of theory/ideology. "Liberalism" can mean many things because it is that broad.

Yes and I think it's rather clear that when I say "Liberalism is the dominant ideology" that I'm using the broadest possible definition of Liberalism.

Then I find the statement pretty meaningless. There's plenty of liberal views and policies that are not for equity or social rights. Do they count or are they ignored?

[Sordhau]

It's not remotely Americentric. Pretty much every country with a Western-style liberal democracy (i.e. the overwhelming majority of countries on the planet) is ruled by some form of liberal party or another.

There are very few exceptions.

Hard disagree.

Just because for example Turkmenistan is officially a presidential republic whose constitution is based on a western, liberal framework, it says little about their actual political realities.

The realities frankly don't matter unless they're an out-and-out Fascist State like Azerbaijan. Even liberal regimes can be corrupt, despotic, militaristic, nationalist, xenophobic, regressive, traditionalist, nepotistic, genocidal, etc.

Liberalism is a broad ideology and can easily be applied to most mainstream politicians and political parties.

[Mattopilos III]

Hard disagree.

Just because for example Turkmenistan is officially a presidential republic whose constitution is based on a western, liberal framework, it says little about their actual political realities.

The realities frankly don't matter unless they're an out-and-out Fascist State like Azerbaijan. Even liberal regimes can be corrupt, despotic, militaristic, nationalist, xenophobic, regressive, traditionalist, nepotistic, genocidal, etc.

Liberalism is a broad ideology and can easily be applied to most mainstream politicians and political parties.

Wow, you just made my point even stronger for me.
Liberalism has been successful? Fuck them!

[Sordhau]

Yes and I think it's rather clear that when I say "Liberalism is the dominant ideology" that I'm using the broadest possible definition of Liberalism.

Then I find the statement pretty meaningless. There's plenty of liberal views and policies that are not for equity or social rights. Do they count or are they ignored?

They do count. As I said: the broad possible definition. That includes everything from hypocritical hippies like John Lennon to veritable hellspawn like Rupert Murdoch and much more.

[Mattopilos III]

Anyway, to get back on topic of the thread (heh)
I'm a cis heterosexual male that identifies as aroace, but have recently been going through the idea that I may be trans, whether that is a trans woman or a femme-leaning nonbinary person.
It's... gonna be a journey.

[Neanderthaland]

Then I find the statement pretty meaningless. There's plenty of liberal views and policies that are not for equity or social rights. Do they count or are they ignored?

They do count. As I said: the broad possible definition. That includes everything from hypocritical hippies like John Lennon to veritable hellspawn like Rupert Murdoch and much more.

Any grouping like that is so vague as to be functionally useless.

[Mattopilos III]

*Liberalism was good at hiding how shit it was you mean. And it still is as evidenced by the plethora of people who think voting blue will somehow make a difference.

I won't vote red until I see a liberal Republican.

Gonna be waiting a few centuries.
Who knows, the parties might flip again.
Doubt it though.

[Sordhau]

I'm a cis heterosexual male

Wait...

that identifies as aroace,

...what?

but have recently been going through the idea that I may be trans,

Hold on...

whether that is a trans woman or a femme-leaning nonbinary person.