NationStates

There are some interesting questions about reality I would like to ask you guys.

1. Pastor John Andrews handled a venomous snake, believing that he would not be harmed by the venom, was bitten by the snake, refused medical attention because he still believed that he would recover due to divine assistance and died.

Questions:
a. Does Pastor Andrews still exist?
b. If so, where is Pastor Andrews?
c. Was the action of handling a venomous snake beneficial or harmful to him? Why?

2. Mr. Ibrahim Ali joined the Sunni Islamist militant group, al-Nusra Front. He then died due to a bullet from the Syrian Army.

Questions:
a. Does Mr. Ali still exist?
b. If so, where is Mr. Ali?
c. Was Mr. Ali dying in the war against Assad regime beneficial or harmful to himself?

3. Ms. Mary Idahosa had AIDS. She believed that T.B. Joshua was a real Christian prophet, supposedly got healed by him, refused to take medicine and died due to AIDS.

Questions:
a. Does Ms. Idahosa still exist?
b. If so, where is Ms. Idahosa?
c. Was Ms.Idahosa forgoing medical treatment in favor of T.B. Joshua’s miracle healing beneficial or harmful to herself?

What do you mean 'still exist'? Do you mean physically alive, spiritually alive, or something else? Because for the first one it's obvious that they're dead. If you meant spiritually alive that's a matter of faith. Since I'm a liberal Christian I can't really say anything for the Mr Ali. Even if I did try to answer for the rest my faith isn't that strong anymore.

The question you ask really depends on how religious the person is.

As for question c, all I can say is that all of them are a bit extreme in their faith, trying to survive through/do life-threatening things without any help. God can work miracles, but it's a matter of when he chooses to do it.

The question of why you would refuse medical help though is a while ' other level

a) No
b) question is meaningless if a=no
c) question is meaningless if a=no

A person who dies ceases to be a person, so cannot be "better/worse off"

Twicetagram and JYPe wrote:What do you mean 'still exist'? Do you mean physically alive, spiritually alive, or something else? Because for the first one it's obvious that they're dead. If you meant spiritually alive that's a matter of faith. Since I'm a liberal Christian I can't really say anything for the Mr Ali. Even if I did try to answer for the rest my faith isn't that strong anymore.

The question you ask really depends on how religious the person is.

As for question c, all I can say is that all of them are a bit extreme in their faith, trying to survive through/do life-threatening things without any help. God can work miracles, but it's a matter of when he chooses to do it.

The question of why you would refuse medical help though is a while ' other level

My point is that obviously it is impossible for people who disagree on religious premises to agree on facts, let alone other stuff.

Feline Goetland wrote:

Twicetagram and JYPe wrote:What do you mean 'still exist'? Do you mean physically alive, spiritually alive, or something else? Because for the first one it's obvious that they're dead. If you meant spiritually alive that's a matter of faith. Since I'm a liberal Christian I can't really say anything for the Mr Ali. Even if I did try to answer for the rest my faith isn't that strong anymore.

The question you ask really depends on how religious the person is.

As for question c, all I can say is that all of them are a bit extreme in their faith, trying to survive through/do life-threatening things without any help. God can work miracles, but it's a matter of when he chooses to do it.

The question of why you would refuse medical help though is a while ' other level

My point is that obviously it is impossible for people who disagree on religious premises to agree on facts, let alone other stuff.

We can agree on facts like the color of the sky, or even political "facts" like Nixon was a crook.

You have tailored some questions deliberately to create disagreement between those who believe in the soul, and others. And then between people who believe in heaven and others. Also between believers in a loving "god" who would never punish people in the afterlife, and the ... other kind of "god".

It does not matter to me whether I can reach agreement with religious OR atheist people. The universe I live in is just the same whether there are god(s) or not. If a person is hanging other ideas like creationism or moral rules on abortion, from their religious beliefs, then they are just exercising bad method in knowing and interacting with the world. We live in the same universe but I have a clearer view of it, since I avoid as much as possible beliefs that cannot be proven or disproven.

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Feline Goetland wrote:
My point is that obviously it is impossible for people who disagree on religious premises to agree on facts, let alone other stuff.

We can agree on facts like the color of the sky, or even political "facts" like Nixon was a crook.

You have tailored some questions deliberately to create disagreement between those who believe in the soul, and others. And then between people who believe in heaven and others. Also between believers in a loving "god" who would never punish people in the afterlife, and the ... other kind of "god".

It does not matter to me whether I can reach agreement with religious OR atheist people. The universe I live in is just the same whether there are god(s) or not. If a person is hanging other ideas like creationism or moral rules on abortion, from their religious beliefs, then they are just exercising bad method in knowing and interacting with the world. We live in the same universe but I have a clearer view of it, since I avoid as much as possible beliefs that cannot be proven or disproven.

I disagree. You just haven’t found people whose religion requires them to believe that the sky is black or Nixon was awesome. All beliefs are religion-dependent. People with different religious beliefs don’t just disagree on whether their deities exist. They also disagree on issues such as whether a random person is in hell and whether certain actions are ethical. Issues such as faith healing and religious warfare are unavoidable.

Feline Goetland wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
We can agree on facts like the color of the sky, or even political "facts" like Nixon was a crook.

You have tailored some questions deliberately to create disagreement between those who believe in the soul, and others. And then between people who believe in heaven and others. Also between believers in a loving "god" who would never punish people in the afterlife, and the ... other kind of "god".

It does not matter to me whether I can reach agreement with religious OR atheist people. The universe I live in is just the same whether there are god(s) or not. If a person is hanging other ideas like creationism or moral rules on abortion, from their religious beliefs, then they are just exercising bad method in knowing and interacting with the world. We live in the same universe but I have a clearer view of it, since I avoid as much as possible beliefs that cannot be proven or disproven.

I disagree. You just haven’t found people whose religion requires them to believe that the sky is black or Nixon was awesome. All beliefs are religion-dependent.

I disagree. I think you're just making stuff up.

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Feline Goetland wrote:
I disagree. You just haven’t found people whose religion requires them to believe that the sky is black or Nixon was awesome. All beliefs are religion-dependent.

I disagree. I think you're just making stuff up.

Not really. Mainstream modern western societies are really implicitly atheistic which is why courts actually believe that a child refused healthcare and died due to their parents’ religious beliefs really suffered and that it is a problem. From a religious POV on the other hand maybe the child is in heaven and nothing is wrong. Same for people who died due to jihad. Some believe these perished jihadists are in heaven and that dying in jihad is beneficial. Others believe that these people are in hell and that jihad sucks since Islam or that sect of Islam is factually inaccurate. Still others believe that they no longer exist and that dying in jihad is essentially equivalent to suicide.

If we can’t even agree on facts how can we agree on what to do?

Do your homework somewhere else.

Feline Goetland wrote:

Twicetagram and JYPe wrote:What do you mean 'still exist'? Do you mean physically alive, spiritually alive, or something else? Because for the first one it's obvious that they're dead. If you meant spiritually alive that's a matter of faith. Since I'm a liberal Christian I can't really say anything for the Mr Ali. Even if I did try to answer for the rest my faith isn't that strong anymore.

The question you ask really depends on how religious the person is.

As for question c, all I can say is that all of them are a bit extreme in their faith, trying to survive through/do life-threatening things without any help. God can work miracles, but it's a matter of when he chooses to do it.

The question of why you would refuse medical help though is a while ' other level

My point is that obviously it is impossible for people who disagree on religious premises to agree on facts, let alone other stuff.

Every single religious person can agree that 1+1=2 right?

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Feline Goetland wrote:
My point is that obviously it is impossible for people who disagree on religious premises to agree on facts, let alone other stuff.

We can agree on facts like the color of the sk.

Can we? When you ask people they will often say it is blue. Machines however will tell you that violet is actually the dominantly scattered colour.in the visible spectrum and thst our eyes are deceiving us due to them favouring certain colours over others. Other animals have different eyes and visible spectra and will disagree. On a cloudy day the sky is grey. At night it is black with stars.

So.. what colour is it ?

The Alma Mater wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
We can agree on facts like the color of the sk.

Can we? When you ask people they will often say it is blue. Machines however will tell you that violet is actually the dominantly scattered colour.in the visible spectrum and thst our eyes are deceiving us due to them favouring certain colours over others. Other animals have different eyes and visible spectra and will disagree. On a cloudy day the sky is grey. At night it is black with stars.

So.. what colour is it ?

Safety orange.

The Alma Mater wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
We can agree on facts like the color of the sk.

Can we? When you ask people they will often say it is blue. Machines however will tell you that violet is actually the dominantly scattered colour.in the visible spectrum and thst our eyes are deceiving us due to them favouring certain colours over others. Other animals have different eyes and visible spectra and will disagree. On a cloudy day the sky is grey. At night it is black with stars.

So.. what colour is it ?

I live in Yorkshire. The sky is grey.

Feline Goetland wrote:There are some interesting questions about reality I would like to ask you guys.

1. Pastor John Andrews handled a venomous snake, believing that he would not be harmed by the venom, was bitten by the snake, refused medical attention because he still believed that he would recover due to divine assistance and died.

Questions:
a. Does Pastor Andrews still exist?
b. If so, where is Pastor Andrews?
c. Was the action of handling a venomous snake beneficial or harmful to him? Why?

2. Mr. Ibrahim Ali joined the Sunni Islamist militant group, al-Nusra Front. He then died due to a bullet from the Syrian Army.

Questions:
a. Does Mr. Ali still exist?
b. If so, where is Mr. Ali?
c. Was Mr. Ali dying in the war against Assad regime beneficial or harmful to himself?

3. Ms. Mary Idahosa had AIDS. She believed that T.B. Joshua was a real Christian prophet, supposedly got healed by him, refused to take medicine and died due to AIDS.

Questions:
a. Does Ms. Idahosa still exist?
b. If so, where is Ms. Idahosa?
c. Was Ms.Idahosa forgoing medical treatment in favor of T.B. Joshua’s miracle healing beneficial or harmful to herself?

Some of these questions are pretty good, some are meaningless. No offense.

Dofstrittopia wrote:

Feline Goetland wrote:There are some interesting questions about reality I would like to ask you guys.

1. Pastor John Andrews handled a venomous snake, believing that he would not be harmed by the venom, was bitten by the snake, refused medical attention because he still believed that he would recover due to divine assistance and died.

Questions:
a. Does Pastor Andrews still exist?
b. If so, where is Pastor Andrews?
c. Was the action of handling a venomous snake beneficial or harmful to him? Why?

2. Mr. Ibrahim Ali joined the Sunni Islamist militant group, al-Nusra Front. He then died due to a bullet from the Syrian Army.

Questions:
a. Does Mr. Ali still exist?
b. If so, where is Mr. Ali?
c. Was Mr. Ali dying in the war against Assad regime beneficial or harmful to himself?

3. Ms. Mary Idahosa had AIDS. She believed that T.B. Joshua was a real Christian prophet, supposedly got healed by him, refused to take medicine and died due to AIDS.

Questions:
a. Does Ms. Idahosa still exist?
b. If so, where is Ms. Idahosa?
c. Was Ms.Idahosa forgoing medical treatment in favor of T.B. Joshua’s miracle healing beneficial or harmful to herself?

Some of these questions are pretty good, some are meaningless. No offense.

Because you are secular and hence b)s are all meaningless to you?

Twicetagram and JYPe wrote:

Feline Goetland wrote:
My point is that obviously it is impossible for people who disagree on religious premises to agree on facts, let alone other stuff.

Every single religious person can agree that 1+1=2 right?

Not necessarily. What I do know is that if a religion insists on 1+1=3 it will be proclaimed wherever it spreads.

Can Feline Goetland name me one actual religion that refuses to believe in the existence of forum.nationstates.net?

1. A. Yes
B. The after life (Heaven or Hell is for God to judge not me)
C. Harmful- if God didn't want the snake to be venomous, He wouldn't have given it venom.
[size=small]Also, Judges 11 warns against doing foolish things like that, but we can't be sure that he knows of that passage[/size]

1. A. Yes
B. The after life (Heaven or Hell is for God to judge not me)
C. Harmful, considering that my religion says that the best a war can be is the lesser of two evils, and only when fighting against an evil regime

3. A. Yes
B. The after life (Heaven or Hell is for God to judge not me)
C. Harmful- Christianity doesn't have prophets post Jesus, and even if we did, or even if she was ignorant to that, what made her so sure that Joshua was prophet? And why did he tell her to refuse medical treatment? Why didn't he tell her he's not a prophet. Was he a cult leader?

Tinhampton wrote:Can Feline Goetland name me one actual religion that refuses to believe in the existence of forum.nationstates.net?

Does flat-earthism count as a religion ? Many of those deny Australia exists; which means that Australian products like Nationstates cannot exist either.

And yes, Australian flat-earthers exist for the ultimate irony.

The Alma Mater wrote:

Tinhampton wrote:Can Feline Goetland name me one actual religion that refuses to believe in the existence of forum.nationstates.net?

Does flat-earthism count as a religion ? Many of those deny Australia exists; which means that Australian products like Nationstates cannot exist either.

And yes, Australian flat-earthers exist for the ultimate irony.

That actually makes more sense. You can walk all around the coast and confirm that the ocean horizon is unbroken.

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

The Alma Mater wrote:Does flat-earthism count as a religion ? Many of those deny Australia exists; which means that Australian products like Nationstates cannot exist either.

And yes, Australian flat-earthers exist for the ultimate irony.

That actually makes more sense. You can walk all around the coast and confirm that the ocean horizon is unbroken.

Given this is Australia we are talking about I am not sure you could try that and survive the experience. I mean spiders and serpents and platupy! Oh my!

Purpelia wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
That actually makes more sense. You can walk all around the coast and confirm that the ocean horizon is unbroken.

Given this is Australia we are talking about I am not sure you could try that and survive the experience. I mean spiders and serpents and platupy! Oh my!

People have done it actually. It's only 17,000 km.

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Purpelia wrote:Given this is Australia we are talking about I am not sure you could try that and survive the experience. I mean spiders and serpents and platupy! Oh my!

People have done it actually. It's only 17,000 km.

I was making a joke about how Australia is a death world.

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Feline Goetland wrote:
My point is that obviously it is impossible for people who disagree on religious premises to agree on facts, let alone other stuff.

We can agree on facts like the color of the sky,

I assume that the blind and colour blind would probably beg to differ, however, since I fit neighter catagory, I have no way of knowing if I'm right or wrong

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Feline Goetland wrote:
My point is that obviously it is impossible for people who disagree on religious premises to agree on facts, let alone other stuff.

We can agree on facts like the color of the sky,

I assume that the blind and colour blind would probably beg to differ, however, since I fit neighter catagory, I have no way of knowing if I'm right or wrong