"Survey finds lack of holocaust knowledge in american young"

[Disgraces]

Alt-rightards be like

*** Warned for Trolling ***

Trolling? No, I'm insulting alt-righters, as anyone would.

[Dakran]

*** Warned for Trolling ***

Trolling? No, I'm insulting alt-righters, as anyone would.

Take the L and move on boss, this isnt a fight you can win

[Disgraces]

Trolling? No, I'm insulting alt-righters, as anyone would.

Take the L and move on boss, this isnt a fight you can win

I know, I'm expecting to be banned for arguing with a mod or something. But I'm just stating the truth.

[Neutraligon]

Take the L and move on boss, this isnt a fight you can win

I know, I'm expecting to be banned for arguing with a mod or something. But I'm just stating the truth.

If you believe you where wrongly warned then you can go to moderation and request a second opinion. A mod not involved in this thread and not the mod who gave you the warning will rule.

[Disgraces]

I know, I'm expecting to be banned for arguing with a mod or something. But I'm just stating the truth.

If you believe you where wrongly warned then you can go to moderation and request a second opinion. A mod not involved in this thread and not the mod who gave you the warning will rule.

No, the mod did their job.

[Khoronzon]

so human rights are more pragmatic than many realize. Because a world that does not respect human rights, will not respect yours...

“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”

Martin Niemöller

Which is exactly why states and political societies exist. "They" won't come for you if the incentive to do so is outweighed by reasons not to, and being under the protection of an organised group with a common interest is one of the best counter-incentives out there. But why should someone who lives under a sufficiently advanced polity wish for the suffering of faraway people, to whom he has no relations or ties whatsoever, to be forcibly halted by the system that protects him, at the cost of his own economic benefit? What does he gain from that, when his own security isn't at stake?

[Insaanistan]

I think if American schools went over the Mao’s Cultural Revolution and the Stalinist Gulag system, less people would come out of high schools self identifying as communists

They don’t cover those? Holy fuck

Nope. I only learned them from my dad or my own reading/research.

[Rusozak]

I think if American schools went over the Mao’s Cultural Revolution and the Stalinist Gulag system, less people would come out of high schools self identifying as communists

They don’t cover those? Holy fuck

I remember learning about the gulags and Stalin's purges. But anything done by the Chinese communists was notably absent.

[Neutraligon]

They don’t cover those? Holy fuck

Nope. I only learned them from my dad or my own reading/research.

I know my high school days are well over a decade ago, but I was definitely taught about the cultural revolution and the gulags. Not a surprise really since my class focused on revolutions and the like.

[Novus America]

so human rights are more pragmatic than many realize. Because a world that does not respect human rights, will not respect yours...

“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”

Martin Niemöller

Which is exactly why states and political societies exist. "They" won't come for you if the incentive to do so is outweighed by reasons not to, and being under the protection of an organised group with a common interest is one of the best counter-incentives out there. But why should someone who lives under a sufficiently advanced polity wish for the suffering of faraway people, to whom he has no relations or ties whatsoever, to be forcibly halted by the system that protects him, at the cost of his own immediate benefit? What does he gain from that, when his own security isn't at stake?

Because his long term security is at stake.
They absolutely will, as they are, using their economic power to destroy our jobs and undermine our political freedoms as we speak.

The short term gains are not worth the long term harms.

When you benefit from the existence of a moral principle, upholding the moral principle is actually the pragmatic thing to do.

A regime that does not respect its own people, will treat you even worse when they have the opportunity. So you avoid giving them that opportunity. It is less about stopping the existing tragedy, then it is another letting them do it more and more places. Giving a regime hostile to you and what you support, money and power for a short term gain, is not pragmatic.

Fighting the Nazis did not stop the Holocaust from happening, but it made the world a safer place for us long term. Because their ideology and attempts to keep spreading it was a threat to our way of life, and what we thought good.

Again it is not actually pragmatic to be a self serving sociopath only interest in the short term.
Long term it will cost you far more than you gained in the short term.

Now sure maybe you prefer to take the defensive, secure yourself over securing others. But you cannot do that if you make the threat increasingly wealthy and powerful.

[Leninist Haven]

Nope. I only learned them from my dad or my own reading/research.

I know my high school days are well over a decade ago, but I was definitely taught about the cultural revolution and the gulags. Not a surprise really since my class focused on revolutions and the like.

I had history classes talk about them (Cold War and Russian Revolution), as well as English classes forcing us to read Ayn Rand and Animal Farm. We almost ended up learning more anti-Stalinist (spoken of as anti-"Communist") history/historical fiction than we did learning about the Holocaust, and we were taught about it in more than a few classes.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I'm shocked. I was reminded of the holocaust constantly in high school.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Why don't we do a survey of American youth and see how many know about the Bosnian genocide that happened only 16 years ago. Of course, unlike the holocaust no one seems to care about that or any other genocide.

[La Xinga]

Let's just walk away with some American youth don't know about Genocide.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Let's just walk away with some American youth don't know about Genocide.

Americans don't know nothing.

[Aureumterra]

Let's just walk away with some American youth Americans don't know about Genocide.

Aye but its not just Americans, its ignorant people in the West in general

[La Xinga]

Let's just walk away with some American youth don't know about Genocide.

Americans don't know nothing.

[Rusozak]

Why don't we do a survey of American youth and see how many know about the Bosnian genocide that happened only 16 years ago. Of course, unlike the holocaust no one seems to care about that or any other genocide.

We covered that in school too. Bosnia, Armenia, Rwanda, and Darfur were all emphasized alongside the Holocaust in a whole week dedicated to genocide awareness.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Why don't we do a survey of American youth and see how many know about the Bosnian genocide that happened only 16 years ago. Of course, unlike the holocaust no one seems to care about that or any other genocide.

We covered that in school too. Bosnia, Armenia, Rwanda, and Darfur were all emphasized alongside the Holocaust in a whole week dedicated to genocide awareness.

I wish I went to your school. All we covered was slavery and the holocaust.

[Khoronzon]

Because his long term security is at stake.
They absolutely will, as they are, using their economic power to destroy our jobs and undermine our political freedoms as we speak.

The short term gains are not worth the long term harms.

When you benefit from the existence of a moral principle, upholding the moral principle is actually the pragmatic thing to do.

A regime that does not respect its own people, will treat you even worse when they have the opportunity. So you avoid giving them that opportunity. It is less about stopping the existing tragedy, then it is another letting them do it more and more places. Giving a regime hostile to you and what you support, money and power for a short term gain, is not pragmatic.

Fighting the Nazis did not stop the Holocaust from happening, but it made the world a safer place for us long term. Because their ideology and attempts to keep spreading it was a threat to our way of life, and what we thought good.

Again it is not actually pragmatic to be a self serving sociopath only interest in the short term.
Long term it will cost you far more than you gained in the short term.

But then the issue isn't about the moral principle of human rights. It's about political and economic independence, and accountability of those with an abundance of organisational power to those who live under and ideally benefit from the political system they hold up, so that they don't sell out the people who depend on them for the sake of cutting costs. A regime that lacks respect for defenceless groups it has coercive power over won't have the same lack of respect for people who are reliably protected by something substantial other than itself - so if you want to be protected from them, the guarantee of your security is what's at stake, and yours alone, not the security of inconsequential and defenceless people with no means to secure their own collective "rights". You don't benefit from the moral principle universally existing, you benefit from it being granted to you by a power structure that protects those within it.

[USS Monitor]

This isn't really as shocking as they're making it out to be. A lot of history that is taught in schools does not stick. That's not unique to the holocaust. If someone is not paying attention in class, it doesn't really matter what you're teaching because they're not listening.

People should know that the Nazis killed millions of Jews, as well as other minorities and political prisoners -- but it isn't a huge deal if they get some numbers and names mixed up. If you throw a lot of statistics at people, like Jewish death toll and the total death toll, sometimes they'll have trouble remembering which number is which. That is not a sign of Nazi sentiments. It is a sign that they have trouble remembering numbers.

Actual deniers or neo-Nazis are a problem, but that is a much smaller number of people than the ones who are just bad at remembering what they heard in history class.

[Nuroblav]

We covered that in school too. Bosnia, Armenia, Rwanda, and Darfur were all emphasized alongside the Holocaust in a whole week dedicated to genocide awareness.

I wish I went to your school. All we covered was slavery and the holocaust.

I don't remember ever looking at the Bosnian genocide in school, although I knew that some shit went on there (atlases are interesting). We did learn about the Rwandan one though.

[Torisakia]

Am American and didn't learn about the Holocaust in school. Can confirm.

Ok they actually did teach it, but I may be apart of one of the last generations that did.

[Insaanistan]

Nope. I only learned them from my dad or my own reading/research.

I know my high school days are well over a decade ago, but I was definitely taught about the cultural revolution and the gulags. Not a surprise really since my class focused on revolutions and the like.

I just started high school this year, so maybe we’ll talk about it. Still, we should learn it much earlier than that.

[Marxist Germany]

How is the Holocaust not covered alongside World War II? Or do Americans not even learn about that? Personally, I think all the major genocides of the 20th century: the Holocaust, Holodomor, and the Great Leap Backwards should be taught in school to teach students that totalitarianism is never a good idea.