US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread III

[Galloism]

And that's what we should do even in "good" shootings. Root cause analysis, and how do we not wind up in this situation in the future.

Thats all well and good, but when some criminal starts ramming cops and shooting at them, they won't be getting out the rulebook. They'll be going mental.

And rightly so.

And this is why root cause analysis and training is so very very essential. You default to that which has been trained.

Have you ever lost an engine as pilot in command? I have.

I'll tell you, you want to go mental, as you say. But because you've had so much training on exactly what to do when an engine goes out, and instructors who randomly yank engines from you when you're training when you least expect it a whole bunch of times (including while taking off and landing), you default to exactly what you've been trained to do.

It's important that "what you've been trained to do" maximizes the chance of everyone walking away alive. This is as true for police as it is in aviation, and we really need to hold them to those same standards.

A pilot who loses an engine and "goes mental" and crashes WILL be blamed for the accident, even if they didn't cause the engine failure. We expect better. We should also expect better of the police.

[Vassenor]

so if a non lethal option exists it shouldn't be taken? It should always be kill?

No, it shouldn't always be kill.

But when some idiot decides to shoot at them, they should expect to be killed.

And how does that justify the current situation?

[Ifreann]

I would submit that people should be outraged even when the police justifiably kill someone. Armed agents of the state should be held to much higher standards than ordinary people. They shouldn't be killing anyone, guilty or innocent, if that killing can realistically be avoided. Their role in society should come with massive scrutiny and scepticism.

People should be outraged even if the killing is justifiable...? What...?

Yes. The outrage should continue until we have total confidence that the police are doing everything realistically possible to carry out their duties without killing people.

So, if some guy like the one I mentioned is firing a weapon at police whilst trying to ram them with his car, what do you suggest that the police do?

Take cover.

[Austreylia]

Have you ever lost an engine as pilot in command? I have.

Losing an engine is childs play.

Losing hydraulics is where it gets interesting.

Take cover.

So, what if the gunman sees this, so he continues firing at them and begins moving towards them?

Should they just stay put and accept that they're gonna die...?

[San Lumen]

Have you ever lost an engine as pilot in command? I have.

Losing an engine is childs play.

Losing hydraulics is where it gets interesting.

Take cover.

So, what if the gunman sees this, so he continues firing at them and begins moving towards them?

Should they just stay put and accept that they're gonna die...?

No one said that.

[Ifreann]

Have you ever lost an engine as pilot in command? I have.

Losing an engine is childs play.

Losing hydraulics is where it gets interesting.

Take cover.

So, what if the gunman sees this, so he continues firing at them and begins moving towards them?

Should they just stay put and accept that they're gonna die...?

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

[Major-Tom]

Thats not true. Decades of seeing cops gets away with brutality and murder and poor relations with the community will cause mistrust through.

It is true, and me bringing up the case of Dolal Idd proves it.

He was ramming squad cars with his car and then began shooting at officers, who were forced to return fire, and people still somehow found a reason to protest over it.

I'd never heard of it. Crosschecking the internet about this case shows that a very vocal, very very small minority of people were moaning about it for like a day until all the facts came out. Then crickets.

I try to put myself in the shoes of Black Americans who have to give their kids "the talk" when they come of age, that talk explaining to them that they are vulnerable in police interactions, that they ought to tread carefully with their very life itself. I hear that and I understand why cops are vilified in many communities, communities where positive police interactions are as rare as upward mobility. Makes your heart sink.

[Galloism]

Have you ever lost an engine as pilot in command? I have.

Losing an engine is childs play.

Losing hydraulics is where it gets interesting.

Well, if you're flying something large enough that the hydraulics are critical, yes.

However, you'll note that what to do in this situation is actually trained now. We learned from Japan Airlines 123, United Airlines Flight 232, and DHL OO-DLL, so flight control by differential engine power is now taught at the airlines for maintaining power with limited or no hydraulic power.

And there have been several successes and partial successes on dealing with this issue.

Because we have high standards, and hold people to them, even when they're trying to address a problem that they didn't cause.

[Christian Confederation]

Losing an engine is childs play.

Losing hydraulics is where it gets interesting.


So, what if the gunman sees this, so he continues firing at them and begins moving towards them?

Should they just stay put and accept that they're gonna die...?

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Most police interactions end in everyone going home alive. The only times guns are drawn and shots are fired is when the officers and/Or the public is in danger.
Cops don't just go around shooting people like this is some dictatorship.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Most police interactions end in everyone going home alive. The only times guns are drawn and shots are fired is when the officers and/Or the public is in danger.
Cops don't just go around shooting people like this is some dictatorship.

Andre Guardado be like:

[Ifreann]

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Most police interactions end in everyone going home alive. The only times guns are drawn and shots are fired is when the officers and/Or the public is in danger.
Cops don't just go around shooting people like this is some dictatorship.

"Not like a dictatorship" is a very low standard.

[Esalia]

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Most police interactions end in everyone going home alive. The only times guns are drawn and shots are fired is when the officers and/Or the public is in danger.
Cops don't just go around shooting people like this is some dictatorship.

"Most interactions are fine" and "cops don't go around shooting people like a dictatorship" doesn't mean there's not a problem, and definitely doesn't mean we shouldn't scrutinise the use of lethal force to a) ensure that it's justified and b) see if there's ways of lessening the need for lethal force to reduce unjust uses of lethal force.

[Gravlen]

And that's what we should do even in "good" shootings. Root cause analysis, and how do we not wind up in this situation in the future.

Thats all well and good, but when some criminal starts ramming cops and shooting at them, they won't be getting out the rulebook. They'll be going mental.

And rightly so.

So the police will be going mental and ignore the rulebook if something forseeable and something they should be trained for happens... and you wonder why that might make people protest?

And for some reason, you've left out the search of his home after his killing. Was it necessary to storm his home with assault riffles and pistols drawn, zip tying the adults (even those appearing cooperative), not answering any questions about why they're there, and not informing the family that Idd was dead until after the two-hour long search? Even if that was following protocol, do you not see how that could provoke protests?

[Necroghastia]

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Most police interactions end in everyone going home alive. The only times guns are drawn and shots are fired is when the officers and/Or the public is in danger.
Cops don't just go around shooting people like this is some dictatorship.

Oh yes, Tamir Rice, Breonna Taylor, and now Daunte Wright posed such a danger.

[Kowani]

Kim Potter, the former officer who shot Duante Wright, has now resigned, along with former Brooklyn Center Police Chief Tim Gannon

[Genivaria]

Thats all well and good, but when some criminal starts ramming cops and shooting at them, they won't be getting out the rulebook. They'll be going mental.

And rightly so.

So the police will be going mental and ignore the rulebook if something forseeable and something they should be trained for happens... and you wonder why that might make people protest?

And for some reason, you've left out the search of his home after his killing. Was it necessary to storm his home with assault riffles and pistols drawn, zip tying the adults (even those appearing cooperative), not answering any questions about why they're there, and not informing the family that Idd was dead until after the two-hour long search? Even if that was following protocol, do you not see how that could provoke protests?

Forget protests, that kind of attack on one's home provokes shotguns coming out.
I fully stand by the position that any cop who busts into someone's home without a warrant and gets shot because of it is only a victim of their own stupidity.

[Manacordia]

I’m all for disbanding police unions and the taking down of thin blue line police flags.Force police to attend deescalation training classes or they will face suspension or firing.I’m sorry but their power and ego-tripping has to be eliminated or curbed now.Cops are NOT above the law.

FUCK12

[Gravlen]

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Most police interactions end in everyone going home alive. The only times guns are drawn and shots are fired is when the officers and/Or the public is in danger.
Cops don't just go around shooting people like this is some dictatorship.

When officers are in danger?

Like when they come across a car without a rear license plate. Extreme danger!

[Austreylia]

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Then don't say the police should just "take cover" when they're under fire from an armed perpetrator.

What a stupid thing to say.

[Genivaria]

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Then don't say the police should just "take cover" when they're under fire from an armed perpetrator.

What a stupid thing to say.

I would think not standing in the open when being shot at is the correct response, do they not teach that bullets cause death in police academy or something?
Granted that would explain alot of they didn't.

[Austreylia]

FUCK12

Yawn

[Esalia]

I'm not really interested in roleplaying a scenario you invent on the fly to try and make excuses for police killings. If the police resolve the situation by killing someone then we should demand explanations from them for why they didn't find a better solution.

Then don't say the police should just "take cover" when they're under fire from an armed perpetrator.

What a stupid thing to say.

You're a lot less likely to die from someone shooting at you if you take cover. Sounds like pretty solid advice for anyone getting shot at to follow.

[Austreylia]

You're a lot less likely to die from someone shooting at you if you take cover. Sounds like pretty solid advice for anyone getting shot at to follow.

What about sitting there and taking cover whilst the gun-wielding maniac advances towards you? Does sitting there and taking a bullet sound like solid advice?

[Genivaria]

You're a lot less likely to die from someone shooting at you if you take cover. Sounds like pretty solid advice for anyone getting shot at to follow.

What about sitting there and taking cover whilst the gun-wielding maniac advances towards you? Does sitting there and taking a bullet sound like solid advice?

You just want to keep adding things to this fantasy to make cops sound like they work in a warzone huh?

[Manacordia]

You're a lot less likely to die from someone shooting at you if you take cover. Sounds like pretty solid advice for anyone getting shot at to follow.

What about sitting there and taking cover whilst the gun-wielding maniac advances towards you? Does sitting there and taking a bullet sound like solid advice?

YAWN