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New compelling evidence of life on Venus

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:01 pm

The North America Union wrote:Likely not the aliens we were looking forward to, but nonetheless exciting!


Just so we're one the same page: the aliens we're looking forward to are the hot ones we want to bang, yes? Twi'leks, Asari, and the like? I could sure go for a hot blue alien waifu.
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Leppikania
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Postby Leppikania » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:01 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Leppikania wrote:I will bet $50 that further research does not find any life on Venus. I would bet more, but I'm a broke college student.

Shoot me a telegram if you would like to take me up on this.


I'm all up for a wager but I think you need to make your argument against life on Venus public.

Alright, cool. My main reasoning is that phosphine is too simple of a molecule (three hydrogen atoms attached to a phosphorus atom) to rule out any kind of abiotic origin, to say nothing of the potential for experimental error, and actual organic life would likely produce other, bigger molecules (say, a pigment for photosynthesis) that would be more telling.
Last edited by Leppikania on Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Northern Davincia
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Postby Northern Davincia » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:27 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The North America Union wrote:Likely not the aliens we were looking forward to, but nonetheless exciting!


Just so we're one the same page: the aliens we're looking forward to are the hot ones we want to bang, yes? Twi'leks, Asari, and the like? I could sure go for a hot blue alien waifu.

These are civilized tastes, friend.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:18 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Just so we're one the same page: the aliens we're looking forward to are the hot ones we want to bang, yes? Twi'leks, Asari, and the like? I could sure go for a hot blue alien waifu.

These are civilized tastes, friend.

I definitely recommend fucking the species that's going to wipe you out.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:20 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:These are civilized tastes, friend.

I definitely recommend fucking the species that's going to wipe you out.


Ug get last laugh.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:33 pm

I have heard that the outer atmosphere of Venus is good enough for life that humans can technically build floating cities and live within it.
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La Paz de Los Ricos
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Postby La Paz de Los Ricos » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:38 pm

Picairn wrote:I have heard that the outer atmosphere of Venus is good enough for life that humans can technically build floating cities and live within it.


Terraforming is cooler. Three blue planets are better than one.
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Northern Davincia
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Postby Northern Davincia » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:07 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:These are civilized tastes, friend.

I definitely recommend fucking the species that's going to wipe you out.

Humanity's genes with survive in the new hybrid race.
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Postby Kowani » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:09 pm

La Paz de Los Ricos wrote:
Picairn wrote:I have heard that the outer atmosphere of Venus is good enough for life that humans can technically build floating cities and live within it.


Terraforming is cooler. Three blue planets are better than one.

That’s not geology or biology work.
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Postby New haven america » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:12 pm

Kowani wrote:
La Paz de Los Ricos wrote:
Terraforming is cooler. Three blue planets are better than one.

That’s not geology or biology work.

Not with current technology, no.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:13 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The North America Union wrote:Likely not the aliens we were looking forward to, but nonetheless exciting!


Just so we're one the same page: the aliens we're looking forward to are the hot ones we want to bang, yes? Twi'leks, Asari, and the like? I could sure go for a hot blue alien waifu.

A. Twi'leks are multicolored
B. I'm sure there are people adventurous enough who would try to bang Wookies and Krogans too.
Last edited by New haven america on Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Northern Davincia
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Postby Northern Davincia » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:14 pm

New haven america wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Just so we're one the same page: the aliens we're looking forward to are the hot ones we want to bang, yes? Twi'leks, Asari, and the like? I could sure go for a hot blue alien waifu.

A. Twi'leks are multicolored
B. I'm sure there are people adventurous enough who would try to bang Wookies and Krogans too.

According to the internet, yes.
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Postby Cetacea » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:12 am

Leppikania wrote:I will bet $50 that further research does not find any life on Venus. I would bet more, but I'm a broke college student.

Shoot me a telegram if you would like to take me up on this.


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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:38 am

UniversalCommons wrote:Not until we send a probe down to see what it is. It might be something undefinable with some but not all the characteristics of life. In other words alien.


We have tried sending probes. Venus tends to destroy them quickly - it is not very friendly for us or our machines.

But indeed, as people have pointed out, the title of this topic is misleading. Scientists have found evidence that *could* be explained by the presence of micro-organisms in the Venusian clouds; but it is by no means certain.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:42 am

Funky dung! Life really is amazing. That's such a toxic and violent environment, much worse than Mars.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:47 am

Leppikania wrote:I will bet $50 that further research does not find any life on Venus. I would bet more, but I'm a broke college student.

Shoot me a telegram if you would like to take me up on this.


I think the legal implications of allowing gambling for money on NS are pretty ominous -- you could be laundering stolen money or funding terrorism for instance -- and since it would do nothing for Nationstates, the games or the forum, it is probably banned.

"Is there life on Venus?" will be on a commercial gambling site by now. Good luck!
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Postby Duvniask » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:38 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
UniversalCommons wrote:Not until we send a probe down to see what it is. It might be something undefinable with some but not all the characteristics of life. In other words alien.


We have tried sending probes. Venus tends to destroy them quickly - it is not very friendly for us or our machines.

But indeed, as people have pointed out, the title of this topic is misleading. Scientists have found evidence that *could* be explained by the presence of micro-organisms in the Venusian clouds; but it is by no means certain.

It is not misleading, at least not on my part. The first article explicitly calls it "tentative but highly compelling evidence". It is evidence, not surefire confirmation. It is compelling precisely because we have no alternative explanation for how phosphine would occur in the quantities discovered, as "it has no known abiotic false positives on terrestrial planets that could generate the high fluxes required for detection" (Source). It's "compelling" in the same way a detective might have a very compelling argument that person A rather than person B committed the murder.

By asking ourselves "what are the facts?" there are, at this moment, two major possibilities: 1) the measurement was in error, 2) we have observed something that has only one known cause under the circumstances, that cause being the mechanisms of living systems.
Last edited by Duvniask on Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Salus Maior » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:07 am

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The North America Union wrote:Likely not the aliens we were looking forward to, but nonetheless exciting!


Just so we're one the same page: the aliens we're looking forward to are the hot ones we want to bang, yes? Twi'leks, Asari, and the like? I could sure go for a hot blue alien waifu.


Do you want space syphilis?

Because this is how space syphilis happens.
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:15 am

As far as scientists know, there are only two ways to produce phosphine, either artificially in a lab, or by certain kinds of microbes that live in oxygen-free environments. Since there aren’t any alien labs on Venus (that we know of), that leaves microbes.

Source: https://earthsky.org/space/life-on-venu ... signatures

This is not true. phosphine is quite common on both Jupiter and Saturn, we just don't know of a natural process for creating it on terrestrial planets without life being involved. Our first expectation should be "yet undiscovered chemical process" Not "life" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3509001328

Also remember that we've sent several probes to Venus. If it is microbes there's the distinct possibly that this will be even more disappointing then finding nothing, and we will discover we've contaminated our closest neighbor with earth microbes.

Salus Maior wrote:Well, considering Venus it's probably not anything alive now.

But as I understand it, there's a theory that at one point Venus was more habitable.

We can rule out ancient aliens(sorry I had to) phospine is UV sensitive. It would have broken down by now.
Last edited by Aclion on Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Northern Davincia
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Postby Northern Davincia » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:33 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Just so we're one the same page: the aliens we're looking forward to are the hot ones we want to bang, yes? Twi'leks, Asari, and the like? I could sure go for a hot blue alien waifu.


Do you want space syphilis?

Because this is how space syphilis happens.

We can still refer to it as the French Disease.
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The Unified Missourtama States
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Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:47 am

There's a possibility there's life on Venus.

There's also a Possibility "there's life on Venus" brings more clicks.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:48 am

I know this is slightly pedantic, but....

There is no evidence of life on Venus.

There is, however, now some evidence of life in Venus's atmosphere, c. 50 km above the planet's surface.

Given that, for comparison, Everest is about 8.8 km high, and the tallest planetary mountain in the Solar System (Olympus Mons on Mars) is about 26 km high, that's not an entirely academic distinction. If there is life in Venus's atmosphere, then it would seem to exist at a point significantly above the planet's surface at the Venusian tropopause, where the atmospheric pressure is roughly similar to the pressure at Earth's surface, and the temperature is a relatively cool 75 C; in contrast to 93 times denser than our atmosphere and a balmy 460 C on the planet's surface. So if those Venusian microbes exist, it's likely precisely because they're not on Venus.

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Postby Empirical Switzerland » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:49 am

Ahhhhhhhhh! Scary aliens!
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Postby Aureumterra » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:51 am

This isn’t conclusive evidence in any way, in terms of life as we know it, Mars and Europa are far more likely in this solar system as compared to Venus

Although Venus would be more susceptible to terraforming due to similar gravity and geology
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:52 am

That's... wow. That's amazing.

They might not be on the surface, but still, life outside of Earth. That's insane.

This only reinforces my idea that, eventually, we will discover multi-cellular life somewhere. We may never discover advanced aliens in this generation or the next, but still. Wow.

Twice is a coincidence; thrice is a pattern. Phosphine in the habitable zone? Coincidence. Phosphine in the habitable zone without a natural explanation, sans life? That's a pattern right there and proof enough for me.
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