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[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What would you consider to be the best 'compromise'?

Reduce abortions with welfare supports / other non-invasive measures, leave access untouched.
132
33%
Set conditions under which abortions can be accessed.
83
21%
Allow free access, under a given time limit.
38
9%
Allow free access, but give men an option to excuse themselves from child support.
40
10%
HELL WITH COMPROMISE, IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
86
21%
Look out! They're here! Pink Elephants on Parade! Here they come, hippity hoppity!
22
5%
 
Total votes : 401

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Necroghastia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:12 am

Elwher wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:FOURTEENTH FUCKING AMENDMENT
JESUS


"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

What that says is that the States may not abridge those rights granted by the Federal government. It does not say what those rights are; the Constitution and the Federal statutes do that. Nowhere in either the Constitution or the Federal code is the right to a medical procedure granted, therefore the 14th does not apply here.

"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,"
if that isn't the right to do with your own fucking body as you please what the actual fuck is
READ, DAMN IT.
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Sorci
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Postby Sorci » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:13 am

Elwher wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:FOURTEENTH FUCKING AMENDMENT
JESUS


"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

What that says is that the States may not abridge those rights granted by the Federal government. It does not say what those rights are; the Constitution and the Federal statutes do that. Nowhere in either the Constitution or the Federal code is the right to a medical procedure granted, therefore the 14th does not apply here.

However, the 9th amendment states that "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." This directly states that other rights exist that aren't explicitly stated in the constitution, which offers credibility to the unenumerated rights, including the right to privacy, and by proxy, the right to an abortion.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:14 am

Necroghastia wrote:
Elwher wrote:
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

What that says is that the States may not abridge those rights granted by the Federal government. It does not say what those rights are; the Constitution and the Federal statutes do that. Nowhere in either the Constitution or the Federal code is the right to a medical procedure granted, therefore the 14th does not apply here.

"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,"
if that isn't the right to do with your own fucking body as you please what the actual fuck is
READ, DAMN IT.

You're missing major here.

Most GOP don't view women as people or persons or citizens or etc...
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Necroghastia
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Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:17 am

New haven america wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,"
if that isn't the right to do with your own fucking body as you please what the actual fuck is
READ, DAMN IT.

You're missing major here.

Most GOP don't view women as people or persons or citizens or etc...

god fucking damn it how dumb do you think i am i am not "missing" that bullshit i do not need your smarmy ass "corrections"
it doesn't change that it's there in black and fucking white jesus christ
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:18 am

Necroghastia wrote:
New haven america wrote:You're missing major here.

Most GOP don't view women as people or persons or citizens or etc...

god fucking damn it how dumb do you think i am i am not "missing" that bullshit i do not need your smarmy ass "corrections"
it doesn't change that it's there in black and fucking white jesus christ

Reread my post.

Specifically the 2nd bit.
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Necroghastia
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Posts: 7283
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:19 am

New haven america wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:god fucking damn it how dumb do you think i am i am not "missing" that bullshit i do not need your smarmy ass "corrections"
it doesn't change that it's there in black and fucking white jesus christ

Reread my post.

Specifically the 2nd bit.

how about you reread my fucking post jesus christ I KNOW.
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New haven america
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:20 am

Necroghastia wrote:
New haven america wrote:Reread my post.

Specifically the 2nd bit.

how about you reread my fucking post jesus christ I KNOW.

Then you'd know that it doesn't matter to most GOP members that Roe got overturned because most don't view women as people, and thus not applicable to the 14th.
Human of the male variety
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Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

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Elwher
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Founded: May 24, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Elwher » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:20 am

Necroghastia wrote:
Elwher wrote:
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

What that says is that the States may not abridge those rights granted by the Federal government. It does not say what those rights are; the Constitution and the Federal statutes do that. Nowhere in either the Constitution or the Federal code is the right to a medical procedure granted, therefore the 14th does not apply here.

"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,"
if that isn't the right to do with your own fucking body as you please what the actual fuck is
READ, DAMN IT.


Read the whole clause '...without due process of law'. Passing a law prohibiting something is due process of law.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:22 am

Elwher wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,"
if that isn't the right to do with your own fucking body as you please what the actual fuck is
READ, DAMN IT.


Read the whole clause '...without due process of law'. Passing a law prohibiting something is due process of law.

So were the Nuremberg shit pretending to be laws legitimate?

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Stellar Colonies
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Posts: 3803
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:22 am

Native of The East Pacific and Northern California
Opinions and Puppets
If you want a mental image of me: straight(?) white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

I don't think the political compass is
fully accurate, but here are my results:

X-Axis: -5.38
Y-Axis: -2.62

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.
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Ida Station is the only Confederate member state permitted to join the WA.

Add 1200 years for the date I use.

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Elwher
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Posts: 6107
Founded: May 24, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Elwher » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:23 am

Sorci wrote:
Elwher wrote:
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

What that says is that the States may not abridge those rights granted by the Federal government. It does not say what those rights are; the Constitution and the Federal statutes do that. Nowhere in either the Constitution or the Federal code is the right to a medical procedure granted, therefore the 14th does not apply here.

However, the 9th amendment states that "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." This directly states that other rights exist that aren't explicitly stated in the constitution, which offers credibility to the unenumerated rights, including the right to privacy, and by proxy, the right to an abortion.


But the 10th states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Nowhere in the Constitution is the power to regulate medical procedures delegated to the United States, nor is that power prohibitted to the states. Therefore, absent Federal law or amendment, the states have that power.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

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Sorci
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Founded: Jan 07, 2022
Father Knows Best State

Postby Sorci » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:28 am

Elwher wrote:
Sorci wrote:However, the 9th amendment states that "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." This directly states that other rights exist that aren't explicitly stated in the constitution, which offers credibility to the unenumerated rights, including the right to privacy, and by proxy, the right to an abortion.


But the 10th states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Nowhere in the Constitution is the power to regulate medical procedures delegated to the United States, nor is that power prohibitted to the states. Therefore, absent Federal law or amendment, the states have that power.

A medical procedure which is grouped in under the right to privacy, which is something the federal government can enforce based off of interpretations of the 14th amendment, an interpretation agreed to just the same as the incorporation of the bill of rights was to the states after the civil war.
Arms Dealing, Blockade Running, Black Market Procurement, Mercenary Contracting. We get you what you want, where you want it, for a price.
We also chose to not sign anti-piracy laws for a reason, it'd be a shame if your cargo went missing.

SNN Local News Chief of Internal Security announces that trial of those apprehended in raid on Central Armory will be held under military jurisdiction, not civil. /// The International Economic Forum in Sorci's capital city of Teloric has been reopened after bomb threats.

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Stellar Colonies
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Posts: 3803
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:40 am

Stellar Colonies wrote:
Texas AG Ken Paxton celebrates abortion ruling by declaring agency holiday (Dallas News)

Attorney General Ken Paxton made June 24 an agency holiday to mark the Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe v. Wade and “commemorate the sanctity of life.”
AUSTIN — Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton declared an agency holiday Friday to celebrate the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade.

In a news release commenting on the ruling, Paxton said June 24 will now be an agency holiday “in recognition of this momentous decision.” To mark the day, he closed the office and sent most of his 4,000 employee agency home.

According to an internal memo obtained by The Dallas Morning News, staff are required to stop working at noon.

“Today we celebrate life and the protection of the unborn with the U.S. Supreme Court’s reversal of Roe v. Wade,” First Assistant Attorney General Brent Webster wrote. “Going forward, today will be an annual agency holiday to commemorate the sanctity of life.”

Employees required to work from home “due to non-discretionary reasons” must request approval to do so from Webster and coordinate with human resources “if approval is granted,” the memo added. Staff who must work will receive comp time, employees were told.

Paxton, a Republican, is up for re-election this year. He faces Democrat Rochelle Garza in the November general election.

Paxton has the power to release his employees, a former agency head told The News. This authority is usually exercised around the holidays or, on a more limited basis, to respond to extreme weather events, they said.

“I don’t know of anything that prevents him from doing so,” said Claire Bow, the former head of the State Office of Risk Management. “I cannot think of another example of the AG’s office closing and declaring an office holiday for a court ruling. That’s unprecedented to everything I know.”

The ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson, which was released Friday morning, struck down the Roe ruling creating a constitutional right to access abortion.

In 2021, Texas lawmakers passed a so-called trigger law to essentially outlaw abortion. The law will go into effect in 30 days; in the meantime, the state’s six week abortion ban remains in place.
Native of The East Pacific and Northern California
Opinions and Puppets
If you want a mental image of me: straight(?) white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

I don't think the political compass is
fully accurate, but here are my results:

X-Axis: -5.38
Y-Axis: -2.62

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.
Stellar Colonies is a loose confederacy comprised from most of the human-settled parts of the galaxy.

Ida Station is the only Confederate member state permitted to join the WA.

Add 1200 years for the date I use.

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Crazy girl
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Postby Crazy girl » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:44 am

Necroghastia wrote:"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property,"
if that isn't the right to do with your own fucking body as you please what the actual fuck is
READ, DAMN IT.


Necroghastia wrote:god fucking damn it how dumb do you think i am i am not "missing" that bullshit i do not need your smarmy ass "corrections"
it doesn't change that it's there in black and fucking white jesus christ


Necroghastia wrote:how about you reread my fucking post jesus christ I KNOW.


Tone it down a bit with the swearing.

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Stagnant Axon Terminal
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Postby Stagnant Axon Terminal » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:47 am

This is the worst timeline. I'm both devastated and unsurprised that the court justices decided to declare that we don't deserve rights.
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Jewish Underground State
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Posts: 583
Founded: Apr 08, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jewish Underground State » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:48 am

Stellar Colonies wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:
Texas AG Ken Paxton celebrates abortion ruling by declaring agency holiday (Dallas News)

Attorney General Ken Paxton made June 24 an agency holiday to mark the Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe v. Wade and “commemorate the sanctity of life.”
AUSTIN — Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton declared an agency holiday Friday to celebrate the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade.

In a news release commenting on the ruling, Paxton said June 24 will now be an agency holiday “in recognition of this momentous decision.” To mark the day, he closed the office and sent most of his 4,000 employee agency home.

According to an internal memo obtained by The Dallas Morning News, staff are required to stop working at noon.

“Today we celebrate life and the protection of the unborn with the U.S. Supreme Court’s reversal of Roe v. Wade,” First Assistant Attorney General Brent Webster wrote. “Going forward, today will be an annual agency holiday to commemorate the sanctity of life.”

Employees required to work from home “due to non-discretionary reasons” must request approval to do so from Webster and coordinate with human resources “if approval is granted,” the memo added. Staff who must work will receive comp time, employees were told.

Paxton, a Republican, is up for re-election this year. He faces Democrat Rochelle Garza in the November general election.

Paxton has the power to release his employees, a former agency head told The News. This authority is usually exercised around the holidays or, on a more limited basis, to respond to extreme weather events, they said.

“I don’t know of anything that prevents him from doing so,” said Claire Bow, the former head of the State Office of Risk Management. “I cannot think of another example of the AG’s office closing and declaring an office holiday for a court ruling. That’s unprecedented to everything I know.”

The ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson, which was released Friday morning, struck down the Roe ruling creating a constitutional right to access abortion.

In 2021, Texas lawmakers passed a so-called trigger law to essentially outlaw abortion. The law will go into effect in 30 days; in the meantime, the state’s six week abortion ban remains in place.

We can't be surprised by this anymore.
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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:00 am

Rolling the "Supreme Court Overturns Roe v. Wade" thread into this one would put this one over the 500-page limit, I'm locking this and making that thread the new "[Abortion Thread]".
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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:05 am

Stagnant Axon Terminal wrote:This is the worst timeline. I'm both devastated and unsurprised that the court justices decided to declare that we don't deserve rights.


Considering how many were rammed in at the last moment, when Merritt Garland was rejected because A YEAR was too close to the end of Obama's presidency for him to get a pick?

This is tyranny. This is fascism. And half the population has lost the right to self-determination.

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