[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Des-Bal]

Well, if a women is raped then she still has to provide for her child.

She can get an abortion or put the child up for adoption and has nowhere near the same knife fight over parental rights.

[Burgundu]

The problem with abortion is that none of us address the cause- once a baby is born, there is no support for the family, at least here in the US.

If pro-lifers care so much about lives then how do they let born children starve because of their anti-welfare views?

If we did the first option we wouldn't have as many abortions.

[Islamic Essarn]

First of all how many men do you know who have been raped by women.
Second of all the reason that women have more power is because we carry the pregnancy in our body.
Third of all women suffer much more then men after having children
Fourth of all all birth controls and abortion methods, other then condemns, happen to a woman's body so the only conversation that comes out of your reasoning is whether a man gets to decide whether he where a condemn which he already can.

1. I'm not counting them, it's weird you would ask me to do that. But to the implied suggestion that men are rarely if ever raped by women men are about as likely to report being made to nonconsensually penetrate a woman as women are to report being nonconsensually penetrated by a man.
2. Nifty, changes nothing.
3. That was literally one of my points.
4a. Nifty changes nothing.
4b. A man can't wear a condom without 1) his partner's permisson 2) committing rape.

I pointed out an imbalance exists, you're going into detail on why it exists. You're not actually rebutting me.

Yes he does and even if he did’t the effects will still happen to her so it does’t matter

[Islamic Essarn]

Well, if a women is raped then she still has to provide for her child.

She can get an abortion or put the child up for adoption and has nowhere near the same knife fight over parental rights.

Yes and no. She should be able to do so but not anymore in some places.

[Stellar Colonies]

The problem with abortion is that none of us address the cause- once a baby is born, there is no support for the family, at least here in the US.

If pro-lifers care so much about lives then how do they let born children starve because of their anti-welfare views?

If we did the first option we wouldn't have as many abortions.

Jumping directly to banning abortions is a very shortsighted way to cut down on its rate safely.

Birth control is an anti-abortionist's best friend, especially if men are able to expand their diversity of access to it. Spreads around the responsibility, gives men more control over their reproduction, cuts down rates of abortion, makes copulation safer for everyone.

win win

[Des-Bal]

The problem with abortion is that none of us address the cause- once a baby is born, there is no support for the family, at least here in the US.

If pro-lifers care so much about lives then how do they let born children starve because of their anti-welfare views?

If we did the first option we wouldn't have as many abortions.

The number of people starving to death in the united states is basically zero- when it happens it's pretty much universally because someone was essentially terminally mentally ill or physically trapped somewhere without food.

Also there's zero equivalence. If you believe abortion kills a person (because you're wrong) then what you're equating is execution of children for no reason but their parent's whims to not being onboard for UBI.

Third Pro-Life just means anti-abortion it's not hypocrisy it's propaganda.

[Islamic Essarn]

Well, if a women is raped then she still has to provide for her child.

She can get an abortion or put the child up for adoption and has nowhere near the same knife fight over parental rights.

Maybe this is true but i don’t think that men are the oppressed ones when it comes to reproductive rights.

[Islamic Essarn]

The problem with abortion is that none of us address the cause- once a baby is born, there is no support for the family, at least here in the US.

If pro-lifers care so much about lives then how do they let born children starve because of their anti-welfare views?

If we did the first option we wouldn't have as many abortions.

The number of people starving to death in the united states is basically zero- when it happens it's pretty much universally because someone was essentially terminally mentally ill or physically trapped somewhere without food.

Also there's zero equivalence. If you believe abortion kills a person (because you're wrong) then what you're equating is execution of children for no reason but their parent's whims to not being onboard for UBI.

Third Pro-Life just means anti-abortion it's not hypocrisy it's propaganda.

Food insecurity is actually very prevalent in the USA

[Stellar Colonies]

She can get an abortion or put the child up for adoption and has nowhere near the same knife fight over parental rights.

Maybe this is true but i don’t think that men are the oppressed ones when it comes to reproductive rights.

Why fight over who has less reproductive rights? Everyone should try to work on improving them for everyone instead of steamrolling over demonstrated cases of it without consideration, such as a court case establishing a precedent which apparently allows women to violate an underage boy and extract money from him.

[Des-Bal]

Yes he does and even if he did’t the effects will still happen to her so it does’t matter

I can't identify anything you could be responding to.

Yes and no. She should be able to do so but not anymore in some places.

Changes nothing she still has vastly more options.

[Islamic Essarn]

Maybe this is true but i don’t think that men are the oppressed ones when it comes to reproductive rights.

Why fight over who has less reproductive rights? Everyone should try to work on improving them for everyone instead of steamrolling over demonstrated cases of it without consideration.

Because we are more oppressed in this situation and they are trying to take the focus off the people who are suffering here

[Islamic Essarn]

https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ ... 20security.

People definitely go hungry in the United States

[Stellar Colonies]

Why fight over who has less reproductive rights? Everyone should try to work on improving them for everyone instead of steamrolling over demonstrated cases of it without consideration.

Because we are more oppressed in this situation and they are trying to take the focus off the people who are suffering here

I'm sure we can help everyone instead of ignoring half of the problems regarding reproductive rights.

[Des-Bal]

Food insecurity is actually very prevalent in the USA

Yes it is, but nobody really starves to death which is the issue.

Maybe this is true but i don’t think that men are the oppressed ones when it comes to reproductive rights.

I don't need you to think that. I don't think it's a particularly important question. I think it's an easy trap that the model of "oppression" leads us into time and time again but I don't think it's worthwhile which is why I pointed out it was irrelevant.

[Islamic Essarn]

Because we are more oppressed in this situation and they are trying to take the focus off the people who are suffering here

I'm sure we can help everyone instead of ignoring half of the problems regarding reproductive rights.

You named one problem that effects men, i could list 10 that effect women just off the top of my head. Were hardly equal when it comes to oppression.

[Islamic Essarn]

Food insecurity is actually very prevalent in the USA

Yes it is, but nobody really starves to death which is the issue.

Maybe this is true but i don’t think that men are the oppressed ones when it comes to reproductive rights.

I don't need you to think that. I don't think it's a particularly important question. I think it's an easy trap that the model of "oppression" leads us into time and time again but I don't think it's worthwhile which is why I pointed out it was irrelevant.

I would argue that feeling super hungry is also not very nice and still an issue

[Des-Bal]

https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-statistics-charting-the-essentials/food-security-and-nutrition-assistance/#:~:text=The%20prevalence%20of%20food%20insecurity,had%20very%20low%20food%20security.

People definitely go hungry in the United States

And then they live.

[Islamic Essarn]

https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-statistics-charting-the-essentials/food-security-and-nutrition-assistance/#:~:text=The%20prevalence%20of%20food%20insecurity,had%20very%20low%20food%20security.

People definitely go hungry in the United States

And then they live.

They still suffer

[Des-Bal]

You named one problem that effects men, i could list 10 that effect women just off the top of my head. Were hardly equal when it comes to oppression.

Oh boy you're gearing up for a list off? A big ol' pity party where we compare the suffering of discrete groups like baseball cards to see who wins the coveted crown of victim and is therefore entitled to disregard the suffering of their fellow men? I'll sit it out. That's not a valuable way to think.

I would argue that feeling super hungry is also not very nice and still an issue

I would argue our society conquering starvation is a very nice thing also that feeling super hungry isn't death and therefore not antithetical to life and therefore not relevant.

[Islamic Essarn]

You named one problem that effects men, i could list 10 that effect women just off the top of my head. Were hardly equal when it comes to oppression.

Oh boy you're gearing up for a list off? A big ol' pity party where we compare the suffering of discrete groups like baseball cards to see who wins the coveted crown of victim and is therefore entitled to disregard the suffering of their fellow men? I'll sit it out. That's not a valuable way to think.

I would argue that feeling super hungry is also not very nice and still an issue

I would argue our society conquering starvation is a very nice thing also that feeling super hungry isn't death and therefore not antithetical to life and therefore not relevant.

We still have some of the highest rates of child mortality in the developed world

[Islamic Essarn]

https://www.americashealthrankings.org/ ... /state/ALL

[Des-Bal]

We still have some of the highest rates of child mortality in the developed world

I don't care. I made a very specific point in reference to a very specific claim and for the last like nine posts you've been saying things that in no way contradict that very specific point or relate to that very specific claim.

[Islamic Essarn]

We still have some of the highest rates of child mortality in the developed world

I don't care. I made a very specific point in reference to a very specific claim and for the last like nine posts you've been saying things that in no way contradict that very specific point or relate to that very specific claim.

If you don’t care about children then why are you on this thread

[Des-Bal]

If you don’t care about children then why are you on this thread

This thread's not about children or how much we all care about them or how good it is that they're alive and not hungry it is about abortion. I care about abortion.

[Islamic Essarn]

If you don’t care about children then why are you on this thread

This thread's not about children or how much we all care about them or how good it is that they're alive and not hungry it is about abortion. I care about abortion.

Your a man i don’t see why you should