NATION

PASSWORD

[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What would you consider to be the best 'compromise'?

Reduce abortions with welfare supports / other non-invasive measures, leave access untouched.
132
33%
Set conditions under which abortions can be accessed.
83
21%
Allow free access, under a given time limit.
38
9%
Allow free access, but give men an option to excuse themselves from child support.
40
10%
HELL WITH COMPROMISE, IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
86
21%
Look out! They're here! Pink Elephants on Parade! Here they come, hippity hoppity!
22
5%
 
Total votes : 401

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24859
Founded: May 23, 2004
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Wed May 25, 2022 9:03 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism

That's a thing? :rofl: That just sounds like sexism but "justified" by men.


It is, yes. It is similar to benevolent racism, where one believes the "poor member of a minority group will never be able to do X, so as a woke white person they will do it for them".
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

User avatar
Islamic Essarn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Nov 25, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Islamic Essarn » Thu May 26, 2022 6:59 am

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism

That's a thing? :rofl: That just sounds like sexism but "justified" by men.


It is, the benevolent is in strong air quotes

User avatar
Mutualist Chaos
Attaché
 
Posts: 90
Founded: Oct 16, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Mutualist Chaos » Thu May 26, 2022 5:19 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:This is why Pro Choice and The left in america is so flawed. They can't agree on what they want. In this case Pro Choice members are only working together because abortion is under attack.


I want to come back to this because as far as it goes, this is completely true. Abortion rights advocates in the US have been on the retreat since the passage of Roe v. Wade itself. They speak in terms of compromise and conciliation, trying to hammer out a reasonable accomodation ("Surely you think rape victims shouldn't have to bear those children???"). But they've forgotten that their opponents can no more be reasoned with than Southern plantation owners could. For fuck's sake, they're already talking about a Fugitive Slave Abortion Procurer Act! (And passing them on the state level)

The movement needs to grow its spine back and set the agenda: taxpayer-funded abortion on demand with no questions asked, hoops to jump through, waiting periods, inanimate object rape "transvaginal ultrasound," or smarmy self-righteous lecturing.

We cannot sacrifice the country. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They pack our courts, and we fall back. They deprive entire states of basic rights, and we fall back. Not again! The line must be drawn here - this far, no farther!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9PRcEgkCpKk

...not least because the ones suffering a need for vengeance are the ones flailing like maniacs over the world's liberalization, partial abandonment of white masculine supremacy, and turning away from "traditional values" over the last century or so. But as a statement of intent the left needs to adopt, this shit is almost as spot on as this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aXNLdw9CUgE
Free all markets!
(Capitalism is not a free market. Capitalism is when the state intervenes in favor of a particular player. Where capitalism reigns, the people are barely more free than they are under communism. Only the degree of self-righteousness and self-deception changes.)

User avatar
Hamidiye
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1133
Founded: Jan 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hamidiye » Thu May 26, 2022 6:19 pm

Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism


...benevolent? It's built out of religious bullshit with a healthy dose of misoginy I'd say.
Cives, floreat Europa
Opus magnum vocat vos
Stellae signa sunt in caelo
Aureae, quae iungant nos
-ПТН--ХЛО-
☪ 1881 - 193∞!
Pro: Social Authoritarianism, Kemalism, Militarism. Contra: liberalism, capitalism, communism, progressivism, religion

[ kebab intensifies ]
factbook link

User avatar
Islamic Essarn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Nov 25, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Islamic Essarn » Fri May 27, 2022 9:23 am

Hamidiye wrote:
Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism


...benevolent? It's built out of religious bullshit with a healthy dose of misoginy I'd say.


Look up benevolent sexism and you will understand.

User avatar
The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38088
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Rich Port » Fri May 27, 2022 11:21 am

Hamidiye wrote:
Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism


...benevolent? It's built out of religious bullshit with a healthy dose of misoginy I'd say.


It's called benevolent but it's not actually benevolent, ironically.

User avatar
Page
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16212
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Fri May 27, 2022 11:40 am

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:...Not really a response, honestly.

Well there isn't much I can do to change your mind.

This is why Pro Choice and The left in america is so flawed. They can't agree on what they want. In this case Pro Choice members are only working together because abortion is under attack.


Very selfish hypocritical people coming together and setting aside their differences so that we don't have 10 year old rape victims bleeding to death giving birth to a child that will one day be fed to the prison-industrial complex. Terrible, terrible pro-choicers.
I am an internationalist, geolibertarian anarcho-futurist with syncretic egoist and Marxist tendencies. I consider authoritarianism to be intrinsically and irrevocably evil regardless of the authoritarians' intentions or economic inclinations. I do not recognize any law, government, border, or claim to private property.

I don't believe in kink-shaming unless your kink is submitting to the state.

Protect yourself from Covid-19: Stop licking boots.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20782
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Fri May 27, 2022 12:07 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:
Hamidiye wrote:
...benevolent? It's built out of religious bullshit with a healthy dose of misoginy I'd say.


Look up benevolent sexism and you will understand.

tell me is it the 1850's over there?

User avatar
Jewish Underground State
Envoy
 
Posts: 279
Founded: Apr 08, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jewish Underground State » Fri May 27, 2022 1:27 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Jewish Underground State wrote:That's a thing? :rofl: That just sounds like sexism but "justified" by men.


It is, yes. It is similar to benevolent racism, where one believes the "poor member of a minority group will never be able to do X, so as a woke white person they will do it for them".

That's just racism.

Anyway we must get back on topic.
Zionists and Partisans United!

Radio Free Zion
Defeat! The nazi unit kidnapped a fifth of the retreating partisans. On the bright side the rest of them are almost at Krakow.

User avatar
Islamic Essarn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Nov 25, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Islamic Essarn » Fri May 27, 2022 6:33 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
It is, yes. It is similar to benevolent racism, where one believes the "poor member of a minority group will never be able to do X, so as a woke white person they will do it for them".

That's just racism.

Anyway we must get back on topic.


We must get back on topic your right, and it is just racism it’s just one of a couple of sorts.

User avatar
Islamic Essarn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Nov 25, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Islamic Essarn » Fri May 27, 2022 7:03 pm

No matter what your think about the life status of the foetus, it seems impossible to think that something without a well developed brain can think.

User avatar
Islamic Essarn
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Nov 25, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Islamic Essarn » Sat May 28, 2022 11:47 am

The pro life movement does’t actually care about kids, if they did they would fund welfare and ban fire arms. All the pro life movement wants is to control people bodies.

User avatar
Armeattla
Envoy
 
Posts: 216
Founded: Jan 06, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Armeattla » Sat May 28, 2022 2:01 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:The pro life movement does’t actually care about kids, if they did they would fund welfare and ban fire arms. All the pro life movement wants is to control people bodies.

They want to enforce women's reproductivity. A women's choice to not be reproductive is a threat to patrilineal inheritance, and both the accumulation of capital as well as the procreation of the workforce it serves.
We recently went over that in the trans-thread when it came to the harassment of trans men, and them being viewed as "broken women" - therefore also threatening reproductivity. The intersection or cooperation between TERFs (as they view trans men as exactly that) and anti-abortion groups is absolutely no surprise with the aforementioned in mind.

Some thing a bit more ironic: Apparently Pro-Abortion women are less likely to get an abortion than anti-abortion women.
A socialist council republic and civil-service state.
The Mitten Man makes his regular call, to encourage the people to stay warm!
THE GULASCHKANONE IS READY! Prepare for SOUP!

Transfem (she/her) and Pan - Unitary Leftist, Anti-Imperialist - Eternal Antagonist of RadLibs

User avatar
Jewish Underground State
Envoy
 
Posts: 279
Founded: Apr 08, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jewish Underground State » Sat May 28, 2022 3:00 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:No matter what your think about the life status of the foetus, it seems impossible to think that something without a well developed brain can think.

So a fetus can't think.
Last edited by Jewish Underground State on Sat May 28, 2022 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zionists and Partisans United!

Radio Free Zion
Defeat! The nazi unit kidnapped a fifth of the retreating partisans. On the bright side the rest of them are almost at Krakow.

User avatar
Equai
Envoy
 
Posts: 253
Founded: Mar 05, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Equai » Sat May 28, 2022 3:05 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Islamic Essarn wrote:No matter what your think about the life status of the foetus, it seems impossible to think that something without a well developed brain can think.

So a fetus can't think.


Of course it can't. Its just bunch of cells.
She/Her

Queer Liberation, Not Rainbow Capitalism! | After almost six hours since the final talks began Leona Kiwi and Timothy Kansas left the meeting room and declared the formation of Equaian United Peoples Communist Party. "We decided that we need the solidarity and unity in this dividing times", said Kiwi for the press conference. | 33 passengers died and 2 are injured when the freight train sliced through the bus in High Hills Valley, North Odrela.


Queer Anarcho-Socialist, anarchist, communist. Far-left in general, ACAB, anti-war, anti-imperialist, pro-choice, atheist.
⚧♀Trans woman♀⚧
9Axes Results
LeftValues Results
InfValues Results
SapplyValues Results
PoliticalCompass Results

User avatar
Space Squid
Diplomat
 
Posts: 806
Founded: Feb 04, 2022
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Space Squid » Sat May 28, 2022 3:08 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:No matter what your think about the life status of the foetus, it seems impossible to think that something without a well developed brain can think.

And that's a good thing.

Dune has taught us that thinking fetuses grow up weird.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⠔⠒⠒⠠⠄⢠
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⣁⠴⠛⠋⠀⠀⡎
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠔⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⡎⠰⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠜⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠒⠁⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⢀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣶⡓⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠜⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⢠⣪⠖⠒⢮⣢⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⢊⢕⣢⡌⢦⠀⢤⣠⠔⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⢳⣴⠷⠃⠔⣒⠚⠇⡢⠠⠤⠺⠃⠘⢞⣋⠅⢠⠧⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡀⠀⣔⣕⣁⣤⣬⢦⣤⣭⠤⢂⡀⠀⣀⡀⠔⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠉⢋⡿⢛⣭⣴⣶⡿⢉⣤⣴⣿⠀⠁⡇⠀⢀⠠⠤⠀⠤⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⣮⠁⣾⠟⠉⠀⢰⡘⡿⠁⣿⣄⠣⡍⠉⠔⠊⠉⠉⢱⡼⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠿⠀⢹⠀⢀⣼⠟⠉⢊⠆⠻⣿⢓⠪⠥⡂⢄⠀⠀⢗⢅⣀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠘⡹⡉⠀⢸⣟⠀⢀⢜⠆⠀⠹⣻⢦⡀⠈⡄⡇⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠈⠺⢄⠀⠹⡆⠻⠁⠀⢀⡴⡹⠀⠻⣄⣽⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⢱⣜⣦⠀⠀⠀⢠⡗⠉⠀⠀⠀⢩⡌⠙⢳⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⢽⣿⠀⠀⠀⠈⠓⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠫⣛⡄⠀⢀⢴⣾⣗⡶⢠⡴⠗⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

User avatar
The United Penguin Commonwealth
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1768
Founded: Feb 01, 2022
Democratic Socialists

Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Sat May 28, 2022 3:14 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Islamic Essarn wrote:No matter what your think about the life status of the foetus, it seems impossible to think that something without a well developed brain can think.

So a fetus can't think.


yes.

Alignment: LibLeft
Ideology: Libertarian Social Democracy
8values: results
LeftValues: results
Compass: results
SapplyValues: results
InfValues: results

Heloin wrote:If your faith is hatred towards other people for being born a way then your faith isn’t worth a whole lot.

Kannap wrote:Gotta deny people are born gay because then you have to wrestle with the idea that if people are born gay then its by God's design and, if such, serves a God-given purpose and that doesn't mesh with God believing its a sin.

User avatar
Godular
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11709
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Godular » Sat May 28, 2022 8:22 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Islamic Essarn wrote:No matter what your think about the life status of the foetus, it seems impossible to think that something without a well developed brain can think.

So a fetus can't think.


Until the 24th-ish week of pregnancy, the fetus is incapable of forming coherent synaptic patterns, which essentially means that it can neither think nor feel anything whatsoever.
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX
Dormant RP: Throne of the Fallen Empire

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- An enormously advanced collective of formerly human bioborgs that are vastly experienced in both inter-dimensional travel and asymmetrical warfare.
A 1.08 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie
I don't normally use NS stats. But when I do, I prefer Dos Eckis I can STILL kill you.
Post responsibly.

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42835
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Tue May 31, 2022 10:34 am

So it's been about a month since the Alito's draft was leaked, with 2 weeks to a month to go and... Jack shit has happened. Meek protests don't count, btw.

Is this my problem? Are my expectations for the American people too high? They're too high, aren't they?
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11309
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Tue May 31, 2022 10:43 am

New haven america wrote:So it's been about a month since the Alito's draft was leaked, with 2 weeks to a month to go and... Jack shit has happened. Meek protests don't count, btw.

Is this my problem? Are my expectations for the American people too high? They're too high, aren't they?


I'd say less that you have bad expectations of Americans but instead that the US system doesn't represent the views of the people that well. Which is reflected by the fact that basically more then half the senate is ok with, or excited by, abortion being made illegal.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42835
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Tue May 31, 2022 10:51 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
New haven america wrote:So it's been about a month since the Alito's draft was leaked, with 2 weeks to a month to go and... Jack shit has happened. Meek protests don't count, btw.

Is this my problem? Are my expectations for the American people too high? They're too high, aren't they?


I'd say less that you have bad expectations of Americans but instead that the US system doesn't represent the views of the people that well. Which is reflected by the fact that basically more then half the senate is ok with, or excited by, abortion being made illegal.

Mexico, right next door, got it legalized within 24 hours after their dictatorship declared abortion would remain illegal.

I'm not saying that America should pull a similar stunt as them (Mostly because the website's rules are dumb), but come on.
Last edited by New haven america on Tue May 31, 2022 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11309
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Tue May 31, 2022 11:01 am

New haven america wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
I'd say less that you have bad expectations of Americans but instead that the US system doesn't represent the views of the people that well. Which is reflected by the fact that basically more then half the senate is ok with, or excited by, abortion being made illegal.

Mexico, right next door, got it legalized within 24 hours after their dictatorship declared abortion would remain illegal.

I'm not saying that America should pull a similar stunt as them (Mostly because the websites rules are dumb), but come on.


Mexico is a very different place from the US, culturally and governmentally. That they are next door to one another is rather meaningless, after all the UK has had legal abortion for decades but Ireland only legalized it a couple of years ago.

There was an effort to pass some legislation to protect abortions in the US, which passed in the House, but it died because more than half of the Senate is ok with abortion being criminalized. Absent a violent revolution the soonest we will see new people in office is next year and give how broken the US system is it isn't exactly likely that the pro choice side will gain seats.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

User avatar
San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72761
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Tue May 31, 2022 12:29 pm

https://thehill.com/changing-america/re ... ruck-down/

City of Austin prepares to decriminalize abortion if Roe v. Wade is struck down
“It does not directly halt enforcement, but it severely limits the ability of the city or any staff to collect or provide evidence for prosecutions.”

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 35360
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Katganistan » Tue May 31, 2022 6:56 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Yeah, nah. Not seeing it as ‘benevolent’ at all. That’s trying to sugar-coat treating women as property.


yes, it is all those things that’s just the term for it

It's not benevolent at all.

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 35360
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Katganistan » Tue May 31, 2022 6:58 pm

Hamidiye wrote:
Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism


...benevolent? It's built out of religious bullshit with a healthy dose of misoginy I'd say.

Yup. And aside from the women brainwashed into the evangelical cult, the rest of us better stand up and get ready to demonstrate we won't be owned.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aggicificicerous, American Legionaries, Concejos Unidos, Diuhon, Dtn, Dylar, Galloism, Google [Bot], Khurkhogur, Port Caverton, Rusozak, Saiwania, Senkaku, Shrillland, The Front Range, The Jamesian Republic, Washington Resistance Army

Advertisement

Remove ads