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[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What would you consider to be the best 'compromise'?

Reduce abortions with welfare supports / other non-invasive measures, leave access untouched.
132
33%
Set conditions under which abortions can be accessed.
83
21%
Allow free access, under a given time limit.
38
9%
Allow free access, but give men an option to excuse themselves from child support.
40
10%
HELL WITH COMPROMISE, IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
86
21%
Look out! They're here! Pink Elephants on Parade! Here they come, hippity hoppity!
22
5%
 
Total votes : 401

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The Caleshan Valkyrie
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Postby The Caleshan Valkyrie » Mon May 23, 2022 7:45 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Space Squid wrote:Well no. It's thought that over half of fertilized ovum are ejected from the body either before they can implant, or shortly after implantation due to menstruation. Most women never realize they were pregnant.

But it doesn't really matter. Potentiality is an argument fraught with problems.

Take the potentiality argument to the extreme and we end up arguing whether or not we should abort the next Adolf Hitler. <.>


If arguments based on potentiality had any weight, Earth would have long ago been sucked into a blackhole of its own making.
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Mon May 23, 2022 8:48 pm

The Free Republican Union wrote:
The United Penguin Commonwealth wrote:AL, are split-brain people (people whose left and right brain halves are not connected) two people, or one person?

Will your left/right brain develop into a new person with its own soul? If not, then it's a no.

Considering there are cases where one side is an atheist and the other is a theist...by most definitions of the word soul I have found...yes?
The Free Republican Union wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:...How is that a solution to when contraceptives fail?

Not having sex prevents pregnancy.

If we take Christianity seriously...this is not true.
The Free Republican Union wrote:
Islamic Essarn wrote:
Yes, it will be a human being but it is’t when you have an abortion. I see this myth a lot and it’s like saying that if someone kills a 26 year old that they are killing a 60 year because if that person hadn’t killed them then they probably would have become a 60 year old.

62% of pregnancies resulted in a live birth. 22% resulted in an abortion. Lets assume a majority of abortions would result in live births, let's say 20%. That means there is 82% chance of a live birth. That's pretty high if you ask me, so that "cluster of cells" probably would have become a person.

Depends what you call a pregnancy, because up to 50% of fertilizations fail to implant.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Mon May 23, 2022 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jewish Underground State
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Postby Jewish Underground State » Tue May 24, 2022 4:35 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Space Squid wrote:Well no. It's thought that over half of fertilized ovum are ejected from the body either before they can implant, or shortly after implantation due to menstruation. Most women never realize they were pregnant.

But it doesn't really matter. Potentiality is an argument fraught with problems.

Take the potentiality argument to the extreme and we end up arguing whether or not we should abort the next Adolf Hitler. <.>

I mean we can't even tell if the baby will be Adolf Hitler.

We can't base a debate like this with hindsight
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Hamidiye
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Postby Hamidiye » Tue May 24, 2022 4:36 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Take the potentiality argument to the extreme and we end up arguing whether or not we should abort the next Adolf Hitler. <.>

I mean we can't even tell if the baby will be Adolf Hitler.

We can't base a debate like this with hindsight


I vote any future Hitler-babies qualify for a postnatal abortion. :D
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Jewish Underground State
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Postby Jewish Underground State » Tue May 24, 2022 4:37 pm

Hamidiye wrote:
Jewish Underground State wrote:I mean we can't even tell if the baby will be Adolf Hitler.

We can't base a debate like this with hindsight


I vote any future Hitler-babies qualify for a postnatal abortion. :D

We can't just get them into art school?
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Hamidiye
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Postby Hamidiye » Tue May 24, 2022 4:42 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Hamidiye wrote:
I vote any future Hitler-babies qualify for a postnatal abortion. :D

We can't just get them into art school?


Hitlers paintings stunk. :D
Cives, floreat Europa
Opus magnum vocat vos
Stellae signa sunt in caelo
Aureae, quae iungant nos
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New Eestiball
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Postby New Eestiball » Tue May 24, 2022 4:47 pm

Jewish Underground State wrote:
Hamidiye wrote:
I vote any future Hitler-babies qualify for a postnatal abortion. :D

We can't just get them into art school?

Nah, give them the Napoleon.
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Hamidiye
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Postby Hamidiye » Tue May 24, 2022 4:51 pm

New Eestiball wrote:
Jewish Underground State wrote:We can't just get them into art school?

Nah, give them the Napoleon.


Thanks, now I imagine an island filled with wannabe-dictators. Hell, we could send the retired ones there too, wannabe-hitler and daddy Pinochet together. :D
Cives, floreat Europa
Opus magnum vocat vos
Stellae signa sunt in caelo
Aureae, quae iungant nos
-ПТН--ХЛО-
☪ 1881 - 193∞!
Pro: Social Authoritarianism, Kemalism, Militarism. Contra: liberalism, capitalism, communism, progressivism, religion

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New Eestiball
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Postby New Eestiball » Tue May 24, 2022 4:51 pm

Okay, this needs to get back on track. Although this is funny, it still isn't really abortion-related.
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Hamidiye
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Postby Hamidiye » Tue May 24, 2022 5:05 pm

New Eestiball wrote:Okay, this needs to get back on track. Although this is funny, it still isn't really abortion-related.


It has the benefit of being both funny and logical though, unlike the people calling a cell-agglomeration smaller than what they usually exterminate when cleaning their bathroom a baby.

This debate will only end when we finally are ready to stop granting anything religious that exemption from reasonable doubt. We need to stop respecting opinions that are so obviously idiotic, just like racism post WWII.
Last edited by Hamidiye on Tue May 24, 2022 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cives, floreat Europa
Opus magnum vocat vos
Stellae signa sunt in caelo
Aureae, quae iungant nos
-ПТН--ХЛО-
☪ 1881 - 193∞!
Pro: Social Authoritarianism, Kemalism, Militarism. Contra: liberalism, capitalism, communism, progressivism, religion

[ kebab intensifies ]
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Equai
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Postby Equai » Tue May 24, 2022 5:18 pm

Hamidiye wrote:
New Eestiball wrote:Okay, this needs to get back on track. Although this is funny, it still isn't really abortion-related.


It has the benefit of being both funny and logical though, unlike the people calling a cell-agglomeration smaller than what they usually exterminate when cleaning their bathroom a baby.

This debate will only end when we finally are ready to stop granting anything religious that exemption from reasonable doubt. We need to stop respecting opinions that are so obviously idiotic, just like racism post WWII.

You know as much as you are right wing and as much as I am far left in terms of how we see world, I do very much agree with you. The abortion debate will only end when we are ready to stop respecting opinions and enabling people who use pseudo-scientific sources such as religious books to spread their oppression onto oppressed groups and let each individual have their own choice and autonomy over their body
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Islamic Essarn
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Postby Islamic Essarn » Tue May 24, 2022 6:59 pm

Equai wrote:
Hamidiye wrote:
It has the benefit of being both funny and logical though, unlike the people calling a cell-agglomeration smaller than what they usually exterminate when cleaning their bathroom a baby.

This debate will only end when we finally are ready to stop granting anything religious that exemption from reasonable doubt. We need to stop respecting opinions that are so obviously idiotic, just like racism post WWII.

You know as much as you are right wing and as much as I am far left in terms of how we see world, I do very much agree with you. The abortion debate will only end when we are ready to stop respecting opinions and enabling people who use pseudo-scientific sources such as religious books to spread their oppression onto oppressed groups and let each individual have their own choice and autonomy over their body


I agree with you and your philosophy but the only way to convince them that they are wrong is to find issues with their arguments.
Last edited by Islamic Essarn on Tue May 24, 2022 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Times be changing
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Postby Times be changing » Tue May 24, 2022 7:18 pm

The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism

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The Caleshan Valkyrie
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Postby The Caleshan Valkyrie » Tue May 24, 2022 8:19 pm

Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism


I’m pretty sure that sexism and benevolence are antonyms of each other in this circumstance.
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Used NS stats: Population. That’s it. Anything else not stated in the factbooks is not used.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue May 24, 2022 8:27 pm

Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism

You don't know what that term means.
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Islamic Essarn
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Postby Islamic Essarn » Tue May 24, 2022 8:30 pm

The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism


I’m pretty sure that sexism and benevolence are antonyms of each other in this circumstance.


No, benevolent sexism refers to a form of sexism in which women and women doing roles that are seen as famine are seen as perfect, pure and innocent but also seen as weak and in need of mens protection.

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Tue May 24, 2022 8:42 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:
Katganistan wrote:I knew they were going after trans people and probably gay marriage. I did not know about the male contraception.


Their just going after male contraception their going after all contraception

I am talking specifically about what I did not know that New Haven informed me of.

These theocratic assholes are the first ones to deny people food stamps and welfare to support the children they are trying to force women to carry. And don't let the GOP tell you they give a single shit about preserving life when we have yet another massacre of 20 elementary school kids and their teachers and "welp we can't do anything about regulating that". Oh and red states LOOOOOOOVE the death penalty. Usually when it's used on dirty brown people.

They are a death cult that hates women and dirty brown people.

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The Caleshan Valkyrie
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Postby The Caleshan Valkyrie » Tue May 24, 2022 8:47 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
I’m pretty sure that sexism and benevolence are antonyms of each other in this circumstance.


No, benevolent sexism refers to a form of sexism in which women and women doing roles that are seen as famine are seen as perfect, pure and innocent but also seen as weak and in need of mens protection.


Yeah, nah. Not seeing it as ‘benevolent’ at all. That’s trying to sugar-coat treating women as property.
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Used NS stats: Population. That’s it. Anything else not stated in the factbooks is not used.

Intro RP: Gravity Ships and Garden Snips (involved tribes: Plainsrider, Hawkeye, Wavecrasher)
Current RP: A Rock Out of Place (involved tribes: Night Wolf, Deep Kraken, Starwalker)
Current RP (but in the past): Acrimony of Brothers (involved tribe: Deep Kraken)

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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 24, 2022 8:52 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
I’m pretty sure that sexism and benevolence are antonyms of each other in this circumstance.


No, benevolent sexism refers to a form of sexism in which women and women doing roles that are seen as famine are seen as perfect, pure and innocent but also seen as weak and in need of mens protection.

Patently patronising Victorian nonsense
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue May 24, 2022 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Islamic Essarn
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Postby Islamic Essarn » Tue May 24, 2022 8:53 pm

The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Islamic Essarn wrote:
No, benevolent sexism refers to a form of sexism in which women and women doing roles that are seen as famine are seen as perfect, pure and innocent but also seen as weak and in need of mens protection.


Yeah, nah. Not seeing it as ‘benevolent’ at all. That’s trying to sugar-coat treating women as property.


yes, it is all those things that’s just the term for it

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Postby Space Squid » Tue May 24, 2022 8:53 pm

The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Islamic Essarn wrote:
No, benevolent sexism refers to a form of sexism in which women and women doing roles that are seen as famine are seen as perfect, pure and innocent but also seen as weak and in need of mens protection.


Yeah, nah. Not seeing it as ‘benevolent’ at all. That’s trying to sugar-coat treating women as property.

The "benevolent" in "benevolent sexism" has always been in massive air-quotes. People who use the term use it sardonically.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue May 24, 2022 9:30 pm

Islamic Essarn wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
I’m pretty sure that sexism and benevolence are antonyms of each other in this circumstance.


No, benevolent sexism refers to a form of sexism in which women and women doing roles that are seen as famine are seen as perfect, pure and innocent but also seen as weak and in need of mens protection.

No, that's not what benevolent sexism is.

Benevolent sexism and benevolent behaviors that stem from sexist ideals (And are notably behaviors that the modern feminist movement are quite quiet about). Like men paying for women's meals because women have been historically less financially capable, or opening the door for them specifically because they've been seen as less physically capable.
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Godular
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Postby Godular » Tue May 24, 2022 11:57 pm

Space Squid wrote:
The Caleshan Valkyrie wrote:
Yeah, nah. Not seeing it as ‘benevolent’ at all. That’s trying to sugar-coat treating women as property.

The "benevolent" in "benevolent sexism" has always been in massive air-quotes. People who use the term use it sardonically.


Ah, gotcha.
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Islamic Essarn
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Postby Islamic Essarn » Wed May 25, 2022 8:06 pm

New haven america wrote:
Islamic Essarn wrote:
No, benevolent sexism refers to a form of sexism in which women and women doing roles that are seen as famine are seen as perfect, pure and innocent but also seen as weak and in need of mens protection.

No, that's not what benevolent sexism is.

Benevolent sexism and benevolent behaviors that stem from sexist ideals (And are notably behaviors that the modern feminist movement are quite quiet about). Like men paying for women's meals because women have been historically less financially capable, or opening the door for them specifically because they've been seen as less physically capable.


Benevolent sexism is both of those things

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Jewish Underground State
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Postby Jewish Underground State » Wed May 25, 2022 8:46 pm

Times be changing wrote:The whole anti abortion movement is built on benevolent sexism

That's a thing? :rofl: That just sounds like sexism but "justified" by men.
Last edited by Jewish Underground State on Wed May 25, 2022 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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