[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Ifreann]

The personhood or lack thereof of the unborn is irrelevant, abortion ought to be free, safe, and legal regardless.

[Thepeopl]

Today I learned parasitic organisms aren't actually real.

Parasite aren’t grown by the host, parasites do not grown and change depending on hormones created by the host. A foetus does all those thing.

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/77177
Think again. A parasite does mimic hormones from the host.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00224/full

It messes with your hormonal balance

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8167574/
And they produce hormones

https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/2 ... corticoids.

And yes, the fetus does too

https://www.yourhormones.info/glands/pl ... 0to%20grow.

I'm sorry, I don't see the difference.

A foetus uses the human body to grow by leaching on to its bloodstream. It uses hormones to stay inside the body.

The human carrying this parasite really doesn't "build" the foetus. It is being used.

Until it is ready enough to enter the outside world, just like a parasite:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 20motility.

[Islamic Essarn]

Parasite aren’t grown by the host, parasites do not grown and change depending on hormones created by the host. A foetus does all those thing.

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/77177
Think again. A parasite does mimic hormones from the host.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00224/full

It messes with your hormonal balance

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8167574/
And they produce hormones

https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/2 ... corticoids.

And yes, the fetus does too

https://www.yourhormones.info/glands/pl ... 0to%20grow.

I'm sorry, I don't see the difference.

A foetus uses the human body to grow by leaching on to its bloodstream. It uses hormones to stay inside the body.

The human carrying this parasite really doesn't "build" the foetus. It is being used.

Until it is ready enough to enter the outside world, just like a parasite:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 20motility.

No, the pregnant person does build the foetus because many abortions are preformed via blocking certain hormones that build the foetus.

[Islamic Essarn]

Parasite aren’t grown by the host, parasites do not grown and change depending on hormones created by the host. A foetus does all those thing.

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/77177
Think again. A parasite does mimic hormones from the host.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00224/full

It messes with your hormonal balance


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8167574/
And they produce hormones

https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/2 ... corticoids.

And yes, the fetus does too

https://www.yourhormones.info/glands/pl ... 0to%20grow.

I'm sorry, I don't see the difference.

A foetus uses the human body to grow by leaching on to its bloodstream. It uses hormones to stay inside the body.

The human carrying this parasite really doesn't "build" the foetus. It is being used.

Until it is ready enough to enter the outside world, just like a parasite:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 20motility.

Oh and the placenta is not the sam as the foetus, think of the placenta as an organ created in order to supply nutrients an gases to the foetus

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Oh and the placenta is not the sam as the foetus, think of the placenta as an organ created in order to supply nutrients an gases to the foetus

is this what people call "lies to children"?

[Islamic Essarn]

Oh and the placenta is not the sam as the foetus, think of the placenta as an organ created in order to supply nutrients an gases to the foetus

is this what people call "lies to children"?

What do you mean

[Islamic Essarn]

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/77177
Think again. A parasite does mimic hormones from the host.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00224/full

It messes with your hormonal balance


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8167574/
And they produce hormones

https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/2 ... corticoids.

And yes, the fetus does too

https://www.yourhormones.info/glands/pl ... 0to%20grow.

I'm sorry, I don't see the difference.

A foetus uses the human body to grow by leaching on to its bloodstream. It uses hormones to stay inside the body.

The human carrying this parasite really doesn't "build" the foetus. It is being used.

Until it is ready enough to enter the outside world, just like a parasite:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 20motility.

Oh and the placenta is not the sam as the foetus, think of the placenta as an organ created in order to supply nutrients an gases to the foetus

In a way the placenta is similar too breasts as in that they grow because of the production of hormones and later produce hormones

[Space Squid]

Oh and the placenta is not the sam as the foetus, think of the placenta as an organ created in order to supply nutrients an gases to the foetus

In a way the placenta is similar too breasts as in that they grow because of the production of hormones and later produce hormones

I mean... I think that's actually true of every organ. Or nearly every anyway. They all grow because of hormones, and almost all of them produce hormones to some degree. Obviously things like the thymus and pancreas are greater contributors, but the endocrine system is a system. And the whole body participates.

I confess though, I'm baffled by what your point is? The placenta is a combination of tissues from the fetus and the mother, which isn't true of any other organ, but I'm not sure why that's supposed to matter. Or if you're arguing that it doesn't?

[American Legionaries]

Yes, and those are the criteria I consider valid when determining personhood.

I did not ask what criteria you consider valid. I asked what criteria can be relied upon with 100% certainty when determining personhood. The way the existence of consciousness can.

And you couldn't think of a single one.

There are no criteria that can be relied upon 100%.

[Space Squid]

I did not ask what criteria you consider valid. I asked what criteria can be relied upon with 100% certainty when determining personhood. The way the existence of consciousness can.

And you couldn't think of a single one.

There are no criteria that can be relied upon 100%.

The presence of consciousness can. If someone has consciousness, they are a person.

A point which you yourself acknowledged when it came to conjoined twins.

[American Legionaries]

There are no criteria that can be relied upon 100%.

The presence of consciousness can. If someone has consciousness, they are a person.

A point which you yourself acknowledged when it came to conjoined twins.

But some people do not possess conciousness.

[Islamic Essarn]

In a way the placenta is similar too breasts as in that they grow because of the production of hormones and later produce hormones

I mean... I think that's actually true of every organ. Or nearly every anyway. They all grow because of hormones, and almost all of them produce hormones to some degree. Obviously things like the thymus and pancreas are greater contributors, but the endocrine system is a system. And the whole body participates.

I confess though, I'm baffled by what your point is? The placenta is a combination of tissues from the fetus and the mother, which isn't true of any other organ, but I'm not sure why that's supposed to matter. Or if you're arguing that it doesn't?

The placenta is made out of the foetus but the foetus is made by the mother. Also I don’t see why any of this impacts whether it is alright to have an abortion.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

The presence of consciousness can. If someone has consciousness, they are a person.

A point which you yourself acknowledged when it came to conjoined twins.

But some people do not possess conciousness.

how about this: if someone has had consciousness and has the capability for consciousness, they are a person.

[Islamic Essarn]

this is my question : if we assume that the foetus is alive (which it is’t) then at what point does it gain the level of consciousness that makes it wrong for it to be terminated

[Space Squid]

The presence of consciousness can. If someone has consciousness, they are a person.

A point which you yourself acknowledged when it came to conjoined twins.

But some people do not possess conciousness.

There are cases where people who have had consciousness lose it, but we still give them the benefit of the doubt. Though there's a good chance that what you're describing is a dead person.

If they've never had it at all, they're not people, and never were.

[American Legionaries]

But some people do not possess conciousness.

There are cases where people who have had consciousness lose it, but we still give them the benefit of the doubt. Though there's a good chance that what you're describing is a dead person.

If they've never had it at all, they're not people, and never were.

I disagree.

[Space Squid]

There are cases where people who have had consciousness lose it, but we still give them the benefit of the doubt. Though there's a good chance that what you're describing is a dead person.

If they've never had it at all, they're not people, and never were.

I disagree.

I don't care.

The fact of the matter is consciousness, and the existence of the brain, are reliable indicators. Whereas all of the other gibberish you mentioned are unreliable and riddled with exceptions.

A fact which absolutely everyone acknowledges as a practical reality. Only when it comes to "pro-life" shenanigans do people suddenly lose their perspective on what is reasonable.

[Islamic Essarn]

I disagree.

I don't care.

The fact of the matter is consciousness, and the existence of the brain, are reliable indicators. Whereas all of the other gibberish you mentioned are unreliable and riddled with exceptions.

A fact which absolutely everyone acknowledges as a practical reality. Only when it comes to "pro-life" shenanigans do people suddenly lose their perspective on what is reasonable.

Exactly,

[American Legionaries]

I disagree.

I don't care.

The fact of the matter is consciousness, and the existence of the brain, are reliable indicators. Whereas all of the other gibberish you mentioned are unreliable and riddled with exceptions.

A fact which absolutely everyone acknowledges as a practical reality. Only when it comes to "pro-life" shenanigans do people suddenly lose their perspective on what is reasonable.

These aren't facts, these are your beliefs, and as you ao eloquently put it... I don't care.

[Islamic Essarn]

I don't care.

The fact of the matter is consciousness, and the existence of the brain, are reliable indicators. Whereas all of the other gibberish you mentioned are unreliable and riddled with exceptions.

A fact which absolutely everyone acknowledges as a practical reality. Only when it comes to "pro-life" shenanigans do people suddenly lose their perspective on what is reasonable.

These aren't facts, these are your beliefs, and as you ao eloquently put it... I don't care.

If we are is’t going on your opinion is just as right as mine then why do you want to get rid of abortion since everyone has different opinions

[Thepeopl]

this is my question : if we assume that the foetus is alive (which it is’t) then at what point does it gain the level of consciousness that makes it wrong for it to be terminated

Again: the parasite is very much alive.

The placenta isn't soley formed by the mom.

Search placenta anatomy human foetus.

And it is quite the same with tumors

Or are you going to say that the parasite's mouth also is made by the host?

[American Legionaries]

These aren't facts, these are your beliefs, and as you ao eloquently put it... I don't care.

If we are is’t going on your opinion is just as right as mine then why do you want to get rid of abortion since everyone has different opinions

Because I like my opinions more than yours.

[Necroghastia]

If we are is’t going on your opinion is just as right as mine then why do you want to get rid of abortion since everyone has different opinions

Because I like my opinions more than yours.

And that's a reason to force your opinion on everyone else?

[American Legionaries]

Because I like my opinions more than yours.

And that's a reason to force your opinion on everyone else?

Yeah.

[Necroghastia]

And that's a reason to force your opinion on everyone else?

Yeah.

Why? No one in the real world gives a damn about your opinion, after all.