[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Godular]

I generally try telling the truth because it's the decent thing to do. Would you like me to quote the posts where I answered Godular's question? Or perhaps the third time's the charm and you can find it yourself?

Go ahead.

Oh, and AL: Would you be so kind as to revisit my second question? It may have gotten lost in the churn.

Chimeras? One or two people?

[Space Squid]

Then that was a completely pointless thing to bring up. And had nothing to do with how you made your determination that they are two people.

It was the sole factor that contributed to that determination.

Then that is how you determine what is a person.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[American Legionaries]

It was the sole factor that contributed to that determination.

Then that is how you determine what is a person.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

That was how I determined that those specific two people were two people. Conciousness is not the sole factor that could differentiate two people.

[American Legionaries]

I generally try telling the truth because it's the decent thing to do. Would you like me to quote the posts where I answered Godular's question? Or perhaps the third time's the charm and you can find it yourself?

Go ahead.

Which kinda just leads us back to "it depends" technically I was a conjoined twin because I had a partial organ in excess, but literally like 20 grams of extraneous growth when removed years later.

It's worth noting that conjoined twins can also be fraternal, where two eggs are fertilized by two sperm, implant together and fuse during growth.

This would be the second post where I reiterated that my answer to the question on conjoined twins was "it depends" given the wide spectrum of what conjoined twins could be. I also included a personal anecdote that illustrated my point.

[Space Squid]

Then that is how you determine what is a person.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

That was how I determined that those specific two people were two people. Conciousness is not the sole factor that could differentiate two people.

What other factor is there that can determine personhood with 100% certainty?

Because lots of things "could" differentiate people. But also, "could" not differentiate them.

[American Legionaries]

That was how I determined that those specific two people were two people. Conciousness is not the sole factor that could differentiate two people.

What other factor is there that can determine personhood with 100% certainty?

Because lots of things "could" differentiate people. But also, "could" not differentiate them.

Having differing genetic codes, having differing physical bodies, separate physiological processes. To name a few.

[Space Squid]

Go ahead.

Which kinda just leads us back to "it depends" technically I was a conjoined twin because I had a partial organ in excess, but literally like 20 grams of extraneous growth when removed years later.

It's worth noting that conjoined twins can also be fraternal, where two eggs are fertilized by two sperm, implant together and fuse during growth.

This would be the second post where I reiterated that my answer to the question on conjoined twins was "it depends" given the wide spectrum of what conjoined twins could be. I also included a personal anecdote that illustrated my point.

Did a doctor ever tell you that your excess tissue constituted a "conjoined twin?" Because that wouldn't qualify as a thoracopagus, omphalopagus, pygopagus, ischiopagus or craniopagus deformity, and would not meet the medical definition of a conjoined twin.

So you're deliberately changing the definition of a conjoined twin in order to make the question seem vague. But in fact it is not.

[Space Squid]

What other factor is there that can determine personhood with 100% certainty?

Because lots of things "could" differentiate people. But also, "could" not differentiate them.

Having differing genetic codes,

Twins. Not 100%

having differing physical bodies,

Congenital twins. Not 100%

separate physiological processes.

Congenital twins. Not 100% unless the "physiological processes" include the brain. Which relates to consciousness.

To name a few.

You still haven't named any.

[American Legionaries]

This would be the second post where I reiterated that my answer to the question on conjoined twins was "it depends" given the wide spectrum of what conjoined twins could be. I also included a personal anecdote that illustrated my point.

Did a doctor ever tell you that your excess tissue constituted a "conjoined twin?"

Yes.

Because that wouldn't qualify as a thoracopagus, omphalopagus, pygopagus, ischiopagus or craniopagus deformity, and would not meet the medical definition of a conjoined twin.

So you're deliberately changing the definition of a conjoined twin in order to make the question seem vague. But in fact it is not.

Frankly, I'm inclined to believe the physician that examined, treated, and eventually oversaw the surgery to rectify the situation over a random poster on NSG represented by a cosmic mollusk.

[American Legionaries]

Having differing genetic codes,

Twins. Not 100%

having differing physical bodies,

Congenital twins. Not 100%

separate physiological processes.

Congenital twins. Not 100% unless the "physiological processes" include the brain. Which relates to consciousness.

To name a few.

You still haven't named any.

You seem to be under the impression that my opinions require your validation.

[Space Squid]

Did a doctor ever tell you that your excess tissue constituted a "conjoined twin?"

Yes.

Well either you lied just now, or they did.

Because that wouldn't qualify as a thoracopagus, omphalopagus, pygopagus, ischiopagus or craniopagus deformity, and would not meet the medical definition of a conjoined twin.

So you're deliberately changing the definition of a conjoined twin in order to make the question seem vague. But in fact it is not.

Frankly, I'm inclined to believe the physician that examined, treated, and eventually oversaw the surgery to rectify the situation over a random poster on NSG represented by a cosmic mollusk.

Frankly, I - or anyone else - can look up what a congenital twin is in a medical encyclopedia. And see that your totally real (trust me guys!) physician is wrong.

So nobody has to believe me. They can see for themselves.

[American Legionaries]

Yes.

Well either you lied just now, or they did.

Frankly, I'm inclined to believe the physician that examined, treated, and eventually oversaw the surgery to rectify the situation over a random poster on NSG represented by a cosmic mollusk.

Frankly, I - or anyone else - can look up what a congenital twin is in a medical encyclopedia. And see that your totally real (trust me guys!) physician is wrong.

So nobody has to believe me. They can see for themselves.

Sure.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Go ahead.

Which kinda just leads us back to "it depends" technically I was a conjoined twin because I had a partial organ in excess, but literally like 20 grams of extraneous growth when removed years later.

It's worth noting that conjoined twins can also be fraternal, where two eggs are fertilized by two sperm, implant together and fuse during growth.

This would be the second post where I reiterated that my answer to the question on conjoined twins was "it depends" given the wide spectrum of what conjoined twins could be. I also included a personal anecdote that illustrated my point.

And you were subsequently advised that your answer was insufficient because I had given you a very specific circumstance, prominently linked for ease of access.

Thanks for finally answering, by the way.

[American Legionaries]

This would be the second post where I reiterated that my answer to the question on conjoined twins was "it depends" given the wide spectrum of what conjoined twins could be. I also included a personal anecdote that illustrated my point.

And you were subsequently advised that your answer was insufficient because I had given you a very specific circumstance, prominently linked for ease of access.

Thanks for finally answering, by the way.

Momma Telconi taught me not to click on untrustworthy links. And doesn't putting me on ignore and then addressing me on a puppet defeat the purpose of putting me on ignore?

[Space Squid]

Twins. Not 100%


Congenital twins. Not 100%


Congenital twins. Not 100% unless the "physiological processes" include the brain. Which relates to consciousness.


You still haven't named any.

You seem to be under the impression that my opinions require your validation.

No. I was under the impression that we were discussing criteria. And I was pointing out that none of the criteria you mentioned actually do what you say they do.

Like I said before, if you didn't come here to discuss, why have a discussion at all? It doesn't bother me when you resort to an immature retort like this. It should bother you, since you proclaim to be very honest, and what you've just done is a very dishonest way to engage in an argument. But I don't really have a lot of stake in your honesty, so... "meh?"

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Twins. Not 100%


Congenital twins. Not 100%


Congenital twins. Not 100% unless the "physiological processes" include the brain. Which relates to consciousness.


You still haven't named any.

You seem to be under the impression that my opinions require your validation.

This brings us back to a question Squid asked earlier: What’s the point of you posting here, then? You’re not defending yourself. You’re just being contrarian and inconsistent to do… what?

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

And you were subsequently advised that your answer was insufficient because I had given you a very specific circumstance, prominently linked for ease of access.

Thanks for finally answering, by the way.

Momma Telconi taught me not to click on untrustworthy links.

I’m pretty sure that posting malicious links is an actionable offense. Elsewise you just don’t like clicking links that disrupt your narrative.

And doesn't putting me on ignore and then addressing me on a puppet defeat the purpose of putting me on ignore?

Eh, doesn’t bother me none. I was debating whether to foe you on this account too, but by the time I changed devices you’d finally answered my question, which is actually a momentous occasion.

I wondered why the four horsemen had delivered the mail today.

[American Legionaries]

You seem to be under the impression that my opinions require your validation.

No. I was under the impression that we were discussing criteria. And I was pointing out that none of the criteria you mentioned actually do what you say they do.

Like I said before, if you didn't come here to discuss, why have a discussion at all? It doesn't bother me when you resort to an immature retort like this. It should bother you, since you proclaim to be very honest, and what you've just done is a very dishonest way to engage in an argument. But I don't really have a lot of stake in your honesty, so... "meh?"

Yes, and those are the criteria I consider valid when determining personhood.

[The Blaatschapen]

Inasmuch as, say, a liver.

Yes, livers are also living.

It's why it's called a liver and not a deader.

[Islamic Essarn]

What criteria did you use to determine that? What makes them two people?

They have separate consciousness and thought processes, so despite sharing vital organs I would consider them two distinct people by that criteria alone.

What? A chimera only has one brain how can they have separate thought processes

[Islamic Essarn]

Did a doctor ever tell you that your excess tissue constituted a "conjoined twin?"

Yes.

Because that wouldn't qualify as a thoracopagus, omphalopagus, pygopagus, ischiopagus or craniopagus deformity, and would not meet the medical definition of a conjoined twin.

So you're deliberately changing the definition of a conjoined twin in order to make the question seem vague. But in fact it is not.

Frankly, I'm inclined to believe the physician that examined, treated, and eventually oversaw the surgery to rectify the situation over a random poster on NSG represented by a cosmic mollusk.

So your physically connected to another person

[Islamic Essarn]

That was how I determined that those specific two people were two people. Conciousness is not the sole factor that could differentiate two people.

What other factor is there that can determine personhood with 100% certainty?

Because lots of things "could" differentiate people. But also, "could" not differentiate them.

Having one or two heads

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

They have separate consciousness and thought processes, so despite sharing vital organs I would consider them two distinct people by that criteria alone.

What? A chimera only has one brain how can they have separate thought processes

They were speaking about conjoined twins. My question about Chimeras has yet to be answered.

[Space Squid]

No. I was under the impression that we were discussing criteria. And I was pointing out that none of the criteria you mentioned actually do what you say they do.

Like I said before, if you didn't come here to discuss, why have a discussion at all? It doesn't bother me when you resort to an immature retort like this. It should bother you, since you proclaim to be very honest, and what you've just done is a very dishonest way to engage in an argument. But I don't really have a lot of stake in your honesty, so... "meh?"

Yes, and those are the criteria I consider valid when determining personhood.

I did not ask what criteria you consider valid. I asked what criteria can be relied upon with 100% certainty when determining personhood. The way the existence of consciousness can.

And you couldn't think of a single one.

[Islamic Essarn]

What? A chimera only has one brain how can they have separate thought processes

They were speaking about conjoined twins. My question about Chimeras has yet to be answered.

Okay, conjoined twins are obviously 2 people