[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Jewish Underground State]

No I think people who got raped shouldn't wait to get an abortion because some idiot didn't use protection. It's BS. Good luck telling a child that they were birthed "by accident" because the mother had to wait.

You don't know how abortions work or how long waiting time is I take it.

Accuse me for what you want. If people don't want a child then they should use protection.

When you're raped you can't use protection. That's why those people need abortions.

[Necroghastia]

You don't know how abortions work or how long waiting time is I take it.

Accuse me for what you want. If people don't want a child then they should use protection.

When you're raped you can't use protection. That's why those people need abortions.

...Not really a response, honestly.

[Hamidiye]

I really don't see why you are still argueing about the whole matter. Pick a developmental status and legalize abortions before it, problem solved...how's this: The moment the fetus has bigger cell agglomerations than say... a wasp you may no longer abort it. After all everybody kills those asshole-insects without a second thought.

...or so it would play out, were not religion involved.

[Heloin]

You don't know how abortions work or how long waiting time is I take it.

Accuse me for what you want. If people don't want a child then they should use protection.

When you're raped you can't use protection. That's why those people need abortions.

I'll take that as a no.

[Necroghastia]

I really don't see why you are still argueing about the whole matter. Pick a developmental status and legalize abortions before it, problem solved...how's this: The moment the fetus has bigger cell agglomerations than say... a wasp you may no longer abort it. After all everybody kills those asshole-insects without a second thought.

...or so it would play out, were not religion involved.

Wasps get such a bad rep....

[Nemidia]

This is honestly not a topic I like to get into often, it’s a bit touchy and I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with both sides of the argument, and much of it has to do with the way I was raised and taught, I agree a woman, or any human should have the right to do as they please with their body, but at the same time I feel like the death of an unborn fetus is a tragedy, and it’s just not something I can just go “yeah I agree with it”, it feels more like choosing the lesser of two evils than right vs wrong. So I really don’t have an opinion, especially since I have no real experience in this kind of situation, but if someone I was with decided to have an abortion, I would be heart broken, but supportive, mainly because it is one of my dreams to raise a child.

[Jewish Underground State]

Accuse me for what you want. If people don't want a child then they should use protection.

When you're raped you can't use protection. That's why those people need abortions.

...Not really a response, honestly.

Well there isn't much I can do to change your mind.

This is why Pro Choice and The left in america is so flawed. They can't agree on what they want. In this case Pro Choice members are only working together because abortion is under attack.

[Equai]

In all honesty, no offense of anything but that sounds like you problem not a society problem. Changes are inevitable and will always happen no matter what. Tradition is not a constant value. What one may consider tradition today it will not be tomorrow. I really don't see the problem in people not being religious, its not your problem to worry about what others worship. They are not your life and they do not live your life.

People see others as humans but people like you are the people that consider some people less then a human because "I am unable to change". You actively denying women's right to an abortion contributes to the wider systematic problem that you describe as inability to see each other as humans. If you were to accept others to have right to do what they want with their bodies then you will see that people still treat each other like human and with respect. If you have respect for others then they will have respect for you.

Its so simple to be a human, its so simple to respect someone's identity, someone's life, someone's bodily autonomy. Its so easy you don't need anything but a simple: "Its your right, I support you. I may not agree with your stance but I will support you. I can see the angle you are coming from, I can see the systematic oppression you are facing and I want to help erase it". See? Its not hard to be respectful to people who you see are "abandoning a tradition". What is tradition to you is not a tradition to some else. What is moral to you is not moral to someone else. If you want to move on with your life and start to see the world for what it really is and if you want humans to treat each other as humans then respect and support oppressed groups such as women, gender and racial minorities. fight against a system that oppresses them, do not contribute to it.

I am sorry if i was heated up above in previous replies but even I have a point of melting.

I totally get it, its not your fault. I think people just need to stop making this topic so politically charged. Frankly, as much as it pains me to say this--you have a point. It's not the government's job to police what people do, no matter how much I might dislike what they do.

Human rights doesn't need to be politically charged but yet.. they are. Its not that we made them political. Its that system in place made them political. We could all have equal rights, equal everything. We could all live free, happy, not afraid to be ourselves but yet... we aren't. Its not that we as humans can't respect each other and our lives as independent individuals able to make decisions about our bodies as times proved again and again that we can but the system in place that keeps status quo so closely tight is why everything seems to be political. No one wanted it to be political but the system. We can respect each other even if we see things in different lights, we can respect our distances and our rights but still work together for a better world. Its never hard and never costs anything to give a support to people who need it. People who wants abortion can get it and people who doesn't they won't.

That is the only reason why w want the right to choose, right to have an abortion. Not because we want a dead population, not because we "want to kill babies" but because we want a right to choose, a right to have autonomy over our own bodies. Just how black people fought to not be slaves and have right and control of their life. Women don't ask a lot but just to have their own right over their bodies, and how I said above, no woman enjoys having an abortion, no woman also enjoys giving birth. Abortions for women will always be a last resort if there is no other (read better) solution that won't endanger her life. If people successfully ban abortions then mortality rates would just be higher which will benefit no one, but if abortions is allowed then there is will be lower mortality rates because there will not need to be any illegal abortion clinics.

You probably won't change your opinion about this, neither I want to force you too change your opinion. You being (probably a middle-aged white man) can't really see the feelings behind a struggle for rights as you always had them, you probably always had everything served to you in a laws, tho this is not to attack you or anything just saying how the system favors one kind of people over the other, but many other are not that lucky. What my intent is to make you look in this issue through the angle of the oppressed group fighting for their rights and make you see that what you consider tradition and moral is not universal. It never was and never will be but we can mutually respect our autonomy over our own bodies if nothing else and not turn it into "my issues with" but "if the current system ogresses their rights we should help them fight the system".
As well, I don't expect you to like me either, our ideologies are completely different after all I am anarcho-communist. However, I do hope my post made you look at this issue from the angle of people fighting to have this right to have an abortion and how important is for women to have that right secured.

[Heloin]

...Not really a response, honestly.

Well there isn't much I can do to change your mind.

This is why Pro Choice and The left in america is so flawed. They can't agree on what they want. In this case Pro Choice members are only working together because abortion is under attack.

You said that rape victims would be forced to wait behind other patients and possibly risk giving birth before their abortion. This is not a situation possible unless you think abortions are months long processes or you think abortions only happen extremely late term. It's a good indicator you don't actually know what an abortion is.

[New haven america]

You don't know how abortions work or how long waiting time is I take it.

Accuse me for what you want. If people don't want a child then they should use protection.

When you're raped you can't use protection. That's why those people need abortions.

The irony being that Judaism is fine with abortion and even endorses taking Bitter Water (An ancient abortifacient popular around The Eastern Mediterranean). Same goes for Islam.

How Christian Fundamentalist/Evangelical of you.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

This is honestly not a topic I like to get into often, it’s a bit touchy and I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with both sides of the argument, and much of it has to do with the way I was raised and taught, I agree a woman, or any human should have the right to do as they please with their body, but at the same time I feel like the death of an unborn fetus is a tragedy, and it’s just not something I can just go “yeah I agree with it”, it feels more like choosing the lesser of two evils than right vs wrong. So I really don’t have an opinion, especially since I have no real experience in this kind of situation, but if someone I was with decided to have an abortion, I would be heart broken, but supportive, mainly because it is one of my dreams to raise a child.

You can be pro-choice while still feeling that it is a sad thing to abort a pregnancy. Mayhap if this country were more propitious towards struggling/single parents, we could at least somewhat reduce the number of abortions without disrupting anyone’s rights in the process.

[The Free Republican Union]

I totally get it, its not your fault. I think people just need to stop making this topic so politically charged. Frankly, as much as it pains me to say this--you have a point. It's not the government's job to police what people do, no matter how much I might dislike what they do.

Human rights doesn't need to be politically charged but yet.. they are. Its not that we made them political. Its that system in place made them political. We could all have equal rights, equal everything. We could all live free, happy, not afraid to be ourselves but yet... we aren't. Its not that we as humans can't respect each other and our lives as independent individuals able to make decisions about our bodies as times proved again and again that we can but the system in place that keeps status quo so closely tight is why everything seems to be political. No one wanted it to be political but the system. We can respect each other even if we see things in different lights, we can respect our distances and our rights but still work together for a better world. Its never hard and never costs anything to give a support to people who need it. People who wants abortion can get it and people who doesn't they won't.

That is the only reason why w want the right to choose, right to have an abortion. Not because we want a dead population, not because we "want to kill babies" but because we want a right to choose, a right to have autonomy over our own bodies. Just how black people fought to not be slaves and have right and control of their life. Women don't ask a lot but just to have their own right over their bodies, and how I said above, no woman enjoys having an abortion, no woman also enjoys giving birth. Abortions for women will always be a last resort if there is no other (read better) solution that won't endanger her life. If people successfully ban abortions then mortality rates would just be higher which will benefit no one, but if abortions is allowed then there is will be lower mortality rates because there will not need to be any illegal abortion clinics.

You probably won't change your opinion about this, neither I want to force you too change your opinion. You being (probably a middle-aged white man) can't really see the feelings behind a struggle for rights as you always had them, you probably always had everything served to you in a laws, tho this is not to attack you or anything just saying how the system favors one kind of people over the other, but many other are not that lucky. What my intent is to make you look in this issue through the angle of the oppressed group fighting for their rights and make you see that what you consider tradition and moral is not universal. It never was and never will be but we can mutually respect our autonomy over our own bodies if nothing else and not turn it into "my issues with" but "if the current system ogresses their rights we should help them fight the system".
As well, I don't expect you to like me either, our ideologies are completely different after all I am anarcho-communist. However, I do hope my post made you look at this issue from the angle of people fighting to have this right to have an abortion and how important is for women to have that right secured.

Not middle-aged. In high school.

[Jewish Underground State]

Well there isn't much I can do to change your mind.

This is why Pro Choice and The left in america is so flawed. They can't agree on what they want. In this case Pro Choice members are only working together because abortion is under attack.

You said that rape victims would be forced to wait behind other patients and possibly risk giving birth before their abortion. This is not a situation possible unless you think abortions are months long processes or you think abortions only happen extremely late term. It's a good indicator you don't actually know what an abortion is.

Typical.

Claim the other side knows nothing. End it there.

Oh and for the rape victims there will be cases of them getting really late. Circumstances complicate everything.

[Hukhalia]

You said that rape victims would be forced to wait behind other patients and possibly risk giving birth before their abortion. This is not a situation possible unless you think abortions are months long processes or you think abortions only happen extremely late term. It's a good indicator you don't actually know what an abortion is.

Typical.

Claim the other side knows nothing. End it there.

Oh and for the rape victims there will be cases of them getting really late. Circumstances complicate everything.

So? What's the problem with late-term abortions?

[New haven america]

You said that rape victims would be forced to wait behind other patients and possibly risk giving birth before their abortion. This is not a situation possible unless you think abortions are months long processes or you think abortions only happen extremely late term. It's a good indicator you don't actually know what an abortion is.

Typical.

Claim the other side knows nothing. End it there.

Oh and for the rape victims there will be cases of them getting really late. Circumstances complicate everything.

Because you're greatly misinformed.

It's not shocking, most Anti-Choicers/Pro-Punishment supporters aren't well informed, or informed at all.

[Jewish Underground State]

Accuse me for what you want. If people don't want a child then they should use protection.

When you're raped you can't use protection. That's why those people need abortions.

The irony being that Judaism is fine with abortion and even endorses taking Bitter Water (An ancient abortifacient popular around The Eastern Mediterranean). Same goes for Islam.

How Christian Fundamentalist/Evangelical of you.

First of all that's debated apon just like christianity. Were having the same debate.

Second of all not all Jews support abortion. Who's not informed here?

[Heloin]

You said that rape victims would be forced to wait behind other patients and possibly risk giving birth before their abortion. This is not a situation possible unless you think abortions are months long processes or you think abortions only happen extremely late term. It's a good indicator you don't actually know what an abortion is.

Typical.

Claim the other side knows nothing. End it there.

Oh and for the rape victims there will be cases of them getting really late. Circumstances complicate everything.

Yeah, there's not a long waiting list of people casually getting late term abortions. I claim you know nothing because you demonstrate a total lack of understanding for the subject matter.

[Jewish Underground State]

Typical.

Claim the other side knows nothing. End it there.

Oh and for the rape victims there will be cases of them getting really late. Circumstances complicate everything.

Yeah, there's not a long waiting list of people casually getting late term abortions. I claim you know nothing because you demonstrate a total lack of understanding for the subject matter.

Yeah if your looking in Texas.

But there is still a list

[New haven america]

Typical.

Claim the other side knows nothing. End it there.

Oh and for the rape victims there will be cases of them getting really late. Circumstances complicate everything.

So? What's the problem with late-term abortions?

Late term abortions have a much higher risk of complications, including hemorrhaging, uterine/pelvic atony, etc...

This is why the US caps abortions at the end of the 2nd trimester, if you want an abortion past he 26 week mark then you need to get a doctor and legal signoff.

[Nemidia]

This is honestly not a topic I like to get into often, it’s a bit touchy and I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with both sides of the argument, and much of it has to do with the way I was raised and taught, I agree a woman, or any human should have the right to do as they please with their body, but at the same time I feel like the death of an unborn fetus is a tragedy, and it’s just not something I can just go “yeah I agree with it”, it feels more like choosing the lesser of two evils than right vs wrong. So I really don’t have an opinion, especially since I have no real experience in this kind of situation, but if someone I was with decided to have an abortion, I would be heart broken, but supportive, mainly because it is one of my dreams to raise a child.

You can be pro-choice while still feeling that it is a sad thing to abort a pregnancy. Mayhap if this country were more propitious towards struggling/single parents, we could at least somewhat reduce the number of abortions without disrupting anyone’s rights in the process.

I’m really not keen to take sides in political stuff, I prefer taking a neutral and more rational view of it. It’s why I don’t have qualms about saying I’m on neither side, because in many of these cases these days, I think both sides of the isle are just as bad as the other. In this case, my morals conflict too much with both sides for me to pick a side. I find myself outcast in many such political conversations these days, simply because I refuse to pick a side, and instead view things from as neutral a viewpoint as I can, and in this case, I really feel obligated to do so.

I also have some personal bias that keeps me from it as well, due to my own mother’s past. It really has nothi to do with abortion being illegal or illegal, but the reasons for it.

[New haven america]

The irony being that Judaism is fine with abortion and even endorses taking Bitter Water (An ancient abortifacient popular around The Eastern Mediterranean). Same goes for Islam.

How Christian Fundamentalist/Evangelical of you.

First of all that's debated apon just like christianity. Were having the same debate.

Second of all not all Jews support abortion. Who's not informed here?

None of what you posted applies to what I said.

So you, you're the misinformed one.

[Jewish Underground State]

First of all that's debated apon just like christianity. Were having the same debate.

Second of all not all Jews support abortion. Who's not informed here?

None of what you posted applies to what I said.

So you, you're the misinformed one.

https://daily.jstor.org/jewish-law-and-abortion/

[Katganistan]

Oh no, I knew that -- I believe I mentioned that earlier. Clearly they are also trying to go after trans people too.

Then why'd you ask for proof?

I knew they were going after trans people and probably gay marriage. I did not know about the male contraception.

[New haven america]

None of what you posted applies to what I said.

So you, you're the misinformed one.

https://daily.jstor.org/jewish-law-and-abortion/

Did you not read my first post? This has nothing of value in relation to what I said.

[Islamic Essarn]

Why have such restrictions?

If you're going to put in the work to have a child then you should have that child. Some people need Abortions. It shouldn't just be for horny people who couldn't keep it in their pants.

This post really shows the aim of the anti abortion movement : to control womens sex lives