[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

I thought you left the discussion.

I won't leave and not defend my comment.

Because youtube videospam is oh-so-eloquent.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

I'm going to be honest, I never expected there to be someone arguing that we should have a fetus market to buy and sell fetuses as some sort of opposition to abortion. I need a stiff drink or nine.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Why in the world should this country be based on Catholic values?

Because people need to learn to be moral and respect life--but that's not the point of this thread.

Your morals are not universal.

We value life, specifically the quality of life that can be provided by ensuring that women can choose when and how they become parents, whatever their lifestyle might be.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

I can have morality and respect for life without Catholicism and I think this is very much part of the thread because your disagreement with abortion is based off of your religious beliefs. Which is something I am generally hostile towards, forcing religious beliefs upon other people. If you find abortion morally repugnant because of your religion then you can not get an abortion. Someone else who doesn't find abortion morally repugnant should feel free to get an abortion. That is why it is pro choice, it is the choice of the woman to make. It is not a choice that should be taken away from women for any reason.

I understand that. But you can't have everything your way either. It's push and shove. We should have compromise, and each of us doing completely different things is not that. At that rate, we might as well divide the country between those who are and aren't religious.

Compromise is not ‘My way or the highway, while you cope and seethe’. If you want to reduce abortions, do it by advocating for policies that reduce the chance that a woman will feel it necessary to get an abortion, without banning it. It’d be far more effective, and experience less challenge from the other side.

[The Free Republican Union]

I understand that. But you can't have everything your way either. It's push and shove. We should have compromise, and each of us doing completely different things is not that. At that rate, we might as well divide the country between those who are and aren't religious.

Compromise is not ‘My way or the highway, while you cope and seethe’. If you want to reduce abortions, do it by advocating for policies that reduce the chance that a woman will feel it necessary to get an abortion, without banning it. It’d be far more effective, and experience less challenge from the other side.

I completely agree, but if you saw everything you believe in slipping away into oblivion, wouldn't you be upset?

[The Free Republican Union]

Well, wasn't Mary asked first?

She was a virgin yet still ended up pregnant.

I don't know what "asking" has to do with it.

Sorry, poor choice of words. I should have said she gave consent not weather she was asked.

Luke 1:38 - “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.

That sounds like consent.

[Spirit of Hope]

Compromise is not ‘My way or the highway, while you cope and seethe’. If you want to reduce abortions, do it by advocating for policies that reduce the chance that a woman will feel it necessary to get an abortion, without banning it. It’d be far more effective, and experience less challenge from the other side.

I completely agree, but if you saw everything you believe in slipping away into oblivion, wouldn't you be upset?

I certainly understand people being upset that their rights are being taken away and the right to an abortion has been enshrined in law for the last 50 years. What I don't understand is you saying that what you believe in slipping away into oblivion. Is someone taking away your right to practice your religion or otherwise taking away your rights?

[Equai]

She was a virgin yet still ended up pregnant.

I don't know what "asking" has to do with it.

Sorry, poor choice of words. I should have said she gave consent not weather she was asked.

Luke 1:38 - “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.

That sounds like consent.

It sounds more like a fairy tale.
Also it doesn't sound like consent, but admittion of submission, which in itself is a red flag and the questionable thing. Your case is not helped that religious texts are not valid scientific sources or sources you can use to justify something.

[The Free Republican Union]

I completely agree, but if you saw everything you believe in slipping away into oblivion, wouldn't you be upset?

I certainly understand people being upset that their rights are being taken away and the right to an abortion has been enshrined in law for the last 50 years. What I don't understand is you saying that what you believe in slipping away into oblivion. Is someone taking away your right to practice your religion or otherwise taking away your rights?

I'm a staunch traditionalist. I'm a Catholic Republican who can't handle change very well. Try and tell me that now's a good time for me to be living in. I see the numbers of people who identify as Republican drop among young people. I see the number of Republicans who actually fight for what they believe in drop. I see the lowest number of Catholics going to church in a long time. I see a shift in what's considered "right" and "wrong". I see a society--a country--tearing itself apart at the seams and falling apart. I see division and anger and people who refuse to compromise. I see people losing the ability to see each other as humans.

[Equai]

I completely agree, but if you saw everything you believe in slipping away into oblivion, wouldn't you be upset?

I certainly understand people being upset that their rights are being taken away and the right to an abortion has been enshrined in law for the last 50 years. What I don't understand is you saying that what you believe in slipping away into oblivion. Is someone taking away your right to practice your religion or otherwise taking away your rights?

If his rights is to be taken away he would riot because religion is his birth right and shall not be touched but when it comes to women then its oUr RiGhT and BaBiS and other BS. Those types of people like the republican gringo here would have no problems in being highly hypocritical in orther to defend their "birth rights" while at the same time pressing other people for having the same rights.
I am calling it right here: if white men would be the one to be able to be pregnant they would've legalized abortion long time ago.

[The Free Republican Union]

I certainly understand people being upset that their rights are being taken away and the right to an abortion has been enshrined in law for the last 50 years. What I don't understand is you saying that what you believe in slipping away into oblivion. Is someone taking away your right to practice your religion or otherwise taking away your rights?

If his rights is to be taken away he would riot because religion is his birth right and shall not be touched but when it comes to women then its oUr RiGhT and BaBiS and other BS. Those types of people like the republican gringo here would have no problems in being highly hypocritical in orther to defend their "birth rights" while at the same time pressing other people for having the same rights.
I am calling it right here: if white men would be the one to be able to be pregnant they would've legalized abortion long time ago.

Fine. Go kill your own babies.

[Equai]

I certainly understand people being upset that their rights are being taken away and the right to an abortion has been enshrined in law for the last 50 years. What I don't understand is you saying that what you believe in slipping away into oblivion. Is someone taking away your right to practice your religion or otherwise taking away your rights?

I'm a staunch traditionalist. I'm a Catholic Republican who can't handle change very well. Try and tell me that now's a good time for me to be living in. I see the numbers of people who identify as Republican drop among young people. I see the number of Republicans who actually fight for what they believe in drop. I see the lowest number of Catholics going to church in a long time. I see a shift in what's considered "right" and "wrong". I see a society--a country--tearing itself apart at the seams and falling apart. I see division and anger and people who refuse to compromise. I see people losing the ability to see each other as humans. Frankly, I don't know what to think anymore. I just want to give up.

In all honesty, no offense of anything but that sounds like you problem not a society problem. Changes are inevitable and will always happen no matter what. Tradition is not a constant value. What one may consider tradition today it will not be tomorrow. I really don't see the problem in people not being religious, its not your problem to worry about what others worship. They are not your life and they do not live your life.

People see others as humans but people like you are the people that consider some people less then a human because "I am unable to change". You actively denying women's right to an abortion contributes to the wider systematic problem that you describe as inability to see each other as humans. If you were to accept others to have right to do what they want with their bodies then you will see that people still treat each other like human and with respect. If you have respect for others then they will have respect for you.

Its so simple to be a human, its so simple to respect someone's identity, someone's life, someone's bodily autonomy. Its so easy you don't need anything but a simple: "Its your right, I support you. I may not agree with your stance but I will support you. I can see the angle you are coming from, I can see the systematic oppression you are facing and I want to help erase it". See? Its not hard to be respectful to people who you see are "abandoning a tradition". What is tradition to you is not a tradition to some else. What is moral to you is not moral to someone else. If you want to move on with your life and start to see the world for what it really is and if you want humans to treat each other as humans then respect and support oppressed groups such as women, gender and racial minorities. fight against a system that oppresses them, do not contribute to it.

I am sorry if i was heated up above in previous replies but even I have a point of melting.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

If his rights is to be taken away he would riot because religion is his birth right and shall not be touched but when it comes to women then its oUr RiGhT and BaBiS and other BS. Those types of people like the republican gringo here would have no problems in being highly hypocritical in orther to defend their "birth rights" while at the same time pressing other people for having the same rights.
I am calling it right here: if white men would be the one to be able to be pregnant they would've legalized abortion long time ago.

Fine. Go kill your own babies.

Even if that were the case (which it is not), we’re not forcing you to do anything.

[Spirit of Hope]

I certainly understand people being upset that their rights are being taken away and the right to an abortion has been enshrined in law for the last 50 years. What I don't understand is you saying that what you believe in slipping away into oblivion. Is someone taking away your right to practice your religion or otherwise taking away your rights?

I'm a staunch traditionalist. I'm a Catholic Republican who can't handle change very well. Try and tell me that now's a good time for me to be living in. I see the numbers of people who identify as Republican drop among young people. I see the number of Republicans who actually fight for what they believe in drop. I see the lowest number of Catholics going to church in a long time. I see a shift in what's considered "right" and "wrong". I see a society--a country--tearing itself apart at the seams and falling apart. I see division and anger and people who refuse to compromise. I see people losing the ability to see each other as humans.

None of those appear to be issues with your rights being taken away, but instead people believing less in what you believe in. From Catholic standpoint while attendance may be down the acceptance of Catholics into the US is doing rather well right now, we have a Catholic president who didn't have to argue over his religious beliefs like the last Catholic president had to.

I certainly agree that the US has become more divided over the last couple of decades.

I would say now is an excellent time to be a live in general, especially in the US. While there are many issues present that detract from peoples lives people are generally more free and economically prosperous than they would have been 30+ years ago. We can certainly strive to make the country better, and we may disagree on how to do it, but from a strait forward rights stand point you have more rights than people even two decades ago would have imagined.

If his rights is to be taken away he would riot because religion is his birth right and shall not be touched but when it comes to women then its oUr RiGhT and BaBiS and other BS. Those types of people like the republican gringo here would have no problems in being highly hypocritical in orther to defend their "birth rights" while at the same time pressing other people for having the same rights.
I am calling it right here: if white men would be the one to be able to be pregnant they would've legalized abortion long time ago.

Fine. Go kill your own babies.

No one is arguing to kill born children. They are arguing for the right to control their own bodies.

[Jewish Underground State]

I'm going to be honest, I never expected there to be someone arguing that we should have a fetus market to buy and sell fetuses as some sort of opposition to abortion. I need a stiff drink or nine.

That seems extreme. Abortions should only be allowed in cases of rape and genetic disease

[Necroghastia]

I'm going to be honest, I never expected there to be someone arguing that we should have a fetus market to buy and sell fetuses as some sort of opposition to abortion. I need a stiff drink or nine.

That seems extreme. Abortions should only be allowed in cases of rape and genetic disease

Why have such restrictions?

[The Free Republican Union]

I'm a staunch traditionalist. I'm a Catholic Republican who can't handle change very well. Try and tell me that now's a good time for me to be living in. I see the numbers of people who identify as Republican drop among young people. I see the number of Republicans who actually fight for what they believe in drop. I see the lowest number of Catholics going to church in a long time. I see a shift in what's considered "right" and "wrong". I see a society--a country--tearing itself apart at the seams and falling apart. I see division and anger and people who refuse to compromise. I see people losing the ability to see each other as humans. Frankly, I don't know what to think anymore. I just want to give up.

In all honesty, no offense of anything but that sounds like you problem not a society problem. Changes are inevitable and will always happen no matter what. Tradition is not a constant value. What one may consider tradition today it will not be tomorrow. I really don't see the problem in people not being religious, its not your problem to worry about what others worship. They are not your life and they do not live your life.

People see others as humans but people like you are the people that consider some people less then a human because "I am unable to change". You actively denying women's right to an abortion contributes to the wider systematic problem that you describe as inability to see each other as humans. If you were to accept others to have right to do what they want with their bodies then you will see that people still treat each other like human and with respect. If you have respect for others then they will have respect for you.

Its so simple to be a human, its so simple to respect someone's identity, someone's life, someone's bodily autonomy. Its so easy you don't need anything but a simple: "Its your right, I support you. I may not agree with your stance but I will support you. I can see the angle you are coming from, I can see the systematic oppression you are facing and I want to help erase it". See? Its not hard to be respectful to people who you see are "abandoning a tradition". What is tradition to you is not a tradition to some else. What is moral to you is not moral to someone else. If you want to move on with your life and start to see the world for what it really is and if you want humans to treat each other as humans then respect and support oppressed groups such as women, gender and racial minorities. fight against a system that oppresses them, do not contribute to it.

I am sorry if i was heated up above in previous replies but even I have a point of melting.

I totally get it, its not your fault. I think people just need to stop making this topic so politically charged. Frankly, as much as it pains me to say this--you have a point. It's not the government's job to police what people do, no matter how much I might dislike what they do.

[Equai]

If his rights is to be taken away he would riot because religion is his birth right and shall not be touched but when it comes to women then its oUr RiGhT and BaBiS and other BS. Those types of people like the republican gringo here would have no problems in being highly hypocritical in orther to defend their "birth rights" while at the same time pressing other people for having the same rights.
I am calling it right here: if white men would be the one to be able to be pregnant they would've legalized abortion long time ago.

Fine. Go kill your own babies.

I - Very bad way to reply to an argument and a statement made to point a claim of a obvious double standards, makes you look childish in all honesty even tho I can surely say tat you are twice as older then me.

II - No one is killing babies? Abortion never kills babies but a bunch of cells not even alive.

III - Do you really think women love to get abortions? Do you really think women enjoy getting them? You do realize a mental toll that has on them? Its not "oopsy guess i will get abortion". Women always turn to abortion when there is no other solution or it really has to be done. Bearing a child inside you is not as simple as you think. It takes lots of stuff to be able to birth a perfectly healthy baby and not die in the meantime. Also lets not forget the pain so enormous during childbirth that women need to endure.

[Jewish Underground State]

That seems extreme. Abortions should only be allowed in cases of rape and genetic disease

Why have such restrictions?

If you're going to put in the work to have a child then you should have that child. Some people need Abortions. It shouldn't just be for horny people who couldn't keep it in their pants.

[The Free Republican Union]

I'm a staunch traditionalist. I'm a Catholic Republican who can't handle change very well. Try and tell me that now's a good time for me to be living in. I see the numbers of people who identify as Republican drop among young people. I see the number of Republicans who actually fight for what they believe in drop. I see the lowest number of Catholics going to church in a long time. I see a shift in what's considered "right" and "wrong". I see a society--a country--tearing itself apart at the seams and falling apart. I see division and anger and people who refuse to compromise. I see people losing the ability to see each other as humans.

None of those appear to be issues with your rights being taken away, but instead people believing less in what you believe in. From Catholic standpoint while attendance may be down the acceptance of Catholics into the US is doing rather well right now, we have a Catholic president who didn't have to argue over his religious beliefs like the last Catholic president had to.

I certainly agree that the US has become more divided over the last couple of decades.

I would say now is an excellent time to be a live in general, especially in the US. While there are many issues present that detract from peoples lives people are generally more free and economically prosperous than they would have been 30+ years ago. We can certainly strive to make the country better, and we may disagree on how to do it, but from a strait forward rights stand point you have more rights than people even two decades ago would have imagined.

Fine. Go kill your own babies.

No one is arguing to kill born children. They are arguing for the right to control their own bodies.

On my second quoted comment: that was extreme.
On your comment on Joe Biden: I really don't think Joe Biden that much of a Catholic. It seems like he's faking his faith.

[Necroghastia]

Why have such restrictions?

If you're going to put in the work to have a child then you should have that child. Some people need Abortions. It shouldn't just be for horny people who couldn't keep it in their pants.

...what? do you think there's only a limited amount of abortions in the world and we live in fear of using them all up?
also, again: why such restrictions?

[Heloin]

Why have such restrictions?

If you're going to put in the work to have a child then you should have that child. Some people need Abortions. It shouldn't just be for horny people who couldn't keep it in their pants.

Why not?

[The Free Republican Union]

I would like to apologize for the heated nature of my posts, I came here for calm, collected discussion and instead turned this thread into a shouting match.

[Jewish Underground State]

If you're going to put in the work to have a child then you should have that child. Some people need Abortions. It shouldn't just be for horny people who couldn't keep it in their pants.

...what? do you think there's only a limited amount of abortions in the world and we live in fear of using them all up?
also, again: why such restrictions?

No I think people who got raped shouldn't wait to get an abortion because some idiot didn't use protection. It's BS. Good luck telling a child that they were birthed "by accident" because the mother had to wait.

[Heloin]

...what? do you think there's only a limited amount of abortions in the world and we live in fear of using them all up?
also, again: why such restrictions?

No I think people who got raped shouldn't wait to get an abortion because some idiot didn't use protection. It's BS. Good luck telling a child that they were birthed "by accident" because the mother had to wait.

You don't know how abortions work or how long waiting time is I take it.