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by Ifreann » Sat May 21, 2022 12:45 pm
by Thepeopl » Sat May 21, 2022 12:55 pm
by Islamic Essarn » Sat May 21, 2022 1:02 pm
Thepeopl wrote:Islamic Essarn wrote:
Parasite aren’t grown by the host, parasites do not grown and change depending on hormones created by the host. A foetus does all those thing.
https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/77177
Think again. A parasite does mimic hormones from the host.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00224/full
It messes with your hormonal balance
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8167574/
And they produce hormones
https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/2 ... corticoids.
And yes, the fetus does too
https://www.yourhormones.info/glands/pl ... 0to%20grow.
I'm sorry, I don't see the difference.
A foetus uses the human body to grow by leaching on to its bloodstream. It uses hormones to stay inside the body.
The human carrying this parasite really doesn't "build" the foetus. It is being used.
Until it is ready enough to enter the outside world, just like a parasite:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 20motility.
by Islamic Essarn » Sat May 21, 2022 1:04 pm
Thepeopl wrote:Islamic Essarn wrote:
Parasite aren’t grown by the host, parasites do not grown and change depending on hormones created by the host. A foetus does all those thing.
https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/77177
Think again. A parasite does mimic hormones from the host.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00224/full
It messes with your hormonal balance
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8167574/
And they produce hormones
https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/2 ... corticoids.
And yes, the fetus does too
https://www.yourhormones.info/glands/pl ... 0to%20grow.
I'm sorry, I don't see the difference.
A foetus uses the human body to grow by leaching on to its bloodstream. It uses hormones to stay inside the body.
The human carrying this parasite really doesn't "build" the foetus. It is being used.
Until it is ready enough to enter the outside world, just like a parasite:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 20motility.
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat May 21, 2022 1:07 pm
Islamic Essarn wrote:Oh and the placenta is not the sam as the foetus, think of the placenta as an organ created in order to supply nutrients an gases to the foetus
by Islamic Essarn » Sat May 21, 2022 1:08 pm
by Islamic Essarn » Sat May 21, 2022 1:09 pm
Islamic Essarn wrote:Thepeopl wrote:
https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/77177
Think again. A parasite does mimic hormones from the host.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00224/full
It messes with your hormonal balance
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8167574/
And they produce hormones
https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/2 ... corticoids.
And yes, the fetus does too
https://www.yourhormones.info/glands/pl ... 0to%20grow.
I'm sorry, I don't see the difference.
A foetus uses the human body to grow by leaching on to its bloodstream. It uses hormones to stay inside the body.
The human carrying this parasite really doesn't "build" the foetus. It is being used.
Until it is ready enough to enter the outside world, just like a parasite:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 20motility.
Oh and the placenta is not the sam as the foetus, think of the placenta as an organ created in order to supply nutrients an gases to the foetus
by Space Squid » Sat May 21, 2022 1:58 pm
Islamic Essarn wrote:Islamic Essarn wrote:
Oh and the placenta is not the sam as the foetus, think of the placenta as an organ created in order to supply nutrients an gases to the foetus
In a way the placenta is similar too breasts as in that they grow because of the production of hormones and later produce hormones
by American Legionaries » Sat May 21, 2022 2:20 pm
Space Squid wrote:American Legionaries wrote:
Yes, and those are the criteria I consider valid when determining personhood.
I did not ask what criteria you consider valid. I asked what criteria can be relied upon with 100% certainty when determining personhood. The way the existence of consciousness can.
And you couldn't think of a single one.
by Space Squid » Sat May 21, 2022 2:25 pm
American Legionaries wrote:Space Squid wrote:I did not ask what criteria you consider valid. I asked what criteria can be relied upon with 100% certainty when determining personhood. The way the existence of consciousness can.
And you couldn't think of a single one.
There are no criteria that can be relied upon 100%.
by American Legionaries » Sat May 21, 2022 2:29 pm
by Islamic Essarn » Sat May 21, 2022 2:32 pm
Space Squid wrote:Islamic Essarn wrote:
In a way the placenta is similar too breasts as in that they grow because of the production of hormones and later produce hormones
I mean... I think that's actually true of every organ. Or nearly every anyway. They all grow because of hormones, and almost all of them produce hormones to some degree. Obviously things like the thymus and pancreas are greater contributors, but the endocrine system is a system. And the whole body participates.
I confess though, I'm baffled by what your point is? The placenta is a combination of tissues from the fetus and the mother, which isn't true of any other organ, but I'm not sure why that's supposed to matter. Or if you're arguing that it doesn't?
by The United Penguin Commonwealth » Sat May 21, 2022 2:33 pm
by Islamic Essarn » Sat May 21, 2022 2:34 pm
by Space Squid » Sat May 21, 2022 2:34 pm
by American Legionaries » Sat May 21, 2022 2:36 pm
Space Squid wrote:American Legionaries wrote:
But some people do not possess conciousness.
There are cases where people who have had consciousness lose it, but we still give them the benefit of the doubt. Though there's a good chance that what you're describing is a dead person.
If they've never had it at all, they're not people, and never were.
by Space Squid » Sat May 21, 2022 2:43 pm
American Legionaries wrote:Space Squid wrote:There are cases where people who have had consciousness lose it, but we still give them the benefit of the doubt. Though there's a good chance that what you're describing is a dead person.
If they've never had it at all, they're not people, and never were.
I disagree.
by Islamic Essarn » Sat May 21, 2022 2:50 pm
Space Squid wrote:American Legionaries wrote:
I disagree.
I don't care.
The fact of the matter is consciousness, and the existence of the brain, are reliable indicators. Whereas all of the other gibberish you mentioned are unreliable and riddled with exceptions.
A fact which absolutely everyone acknowledges as a practical reality. Only when it comes to "pro-life" shenanigans do people suddenly lose their perspective on what is reasonable.
by American Legionaries » Sat May 21, 2022 2:58 pm
Space Squid wrote:American Legionaries wrote:
I disagree.
I don't care.
The fact of the matter is consciousness, and the existence of the brain, are reliable indicators. Whereas all of the other gibberish you mentioned are unreliable and riddled with exceptions.
A fact which absolutely everyone acknowledges as a practical reality. Only when it comes to "pro-life" shenanigans do people suddenly lose their perspective on what is reasonable.
by Islamic Essarn » Sat May 21, 2022 3:00 pm
American Legionaries wrote:Space Squid wrote:I don't care.
The fact of the matter is consciousness, and the existence of the brain, are reliable indicators. Whereas all of the other gibberish you mentioned are unreliable and riddled with exceptions.
A fact which absolutely everyone acknowledges as a practical reality. Only when it comes to "pro-life" shenanigans do people suddenly lose their perspective on what is reasonable.
These aren't facts, these are your beliefs, and as you ao eloquently put it... I don't care.
by Thepeopl » Sat May 21, 2022 3:15 pm
Islamic Essarn wrote:this is my question : if we assume that the foetus is alive (which it is’t) then at what point does it gain the level of consciousness that makes it wrong for it to be terminated
by Necroghastia » Sat May 21, 2022 3:22 pm
by American Legionaries » Sat May 21, 2022 3:26 pm
by Necroghastia » Sat May 21, 2022 3:27 pm
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