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[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What would you consider to be the best 'compromise'?

Reduce abortions with welfare supports / other non-invasive measures, leave access untouched.
108
33%
Set conditions under which abortions can be accessed.
70
21%
Allow free access, under a given time limit.
30
9%
Allow free access, but give men an option to excuse themselves from child support.
35
11%
HELL WITH COMPROMISE, IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
64
20%
Look out! They're here! Pink Elephants on Parade! Here they come, hippity hoppity!
20
6%
 
Total votes : 327

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:22 pm

Maricarland wrote:
Sundiata wrote:It's not really a problem with messaging. It's more that the United States isn't a full democracy, it's an oligarchy with limits on democracy like gerrymandering, the electoral college, corporate lobbying, and lifelong supreme court appointments. That's why Roe v Wade is gone. Most Americans support legal abortion.


Those are some very good points.

This time the system works in my favor. I'm against abortion but the system still needs to be changed for the better.
Last edited by Sundiata on Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:23 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Maricarland wrote:
Those are some very good points.

This time the system works in my favor. I'm against abortion but it still needs to be changed for the better.

That because your ideology is based on evil despite you believing it's holy.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:24 pm

New haven america wrote:
Sundiata wrote:This time the system works in my favor. I'm against abortion but it still needs to be changed for the better.

That because your ideology is based on evil despite you believing it's holy.

What ideology?
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:41 pm

Sundiata wrote:
New haven america wrote:That because your ideology is based on evil despite you believing it's holy.

What ideology?

Pick one.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:27 am

Neanderthaland wrote:
Sundiata wrote:What ideology?

Pick one.

I have none.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:28 am

Sundiata wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Pick one.

I have none.

There's 3 examples in your sig if you're having trouble.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:40 am

New haven america wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I have none.

There's 3 examples in your sig if you're having trouble.

Let's not look very long at my signature.

To lower abortion without permitting it needs us all to give generously the poor. That is the most important thing we can do right now for each other materially. We must hold the wealthy and powerful to account.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:06 am

Sundiata wrote:
New haven america wrote:There's 3 examples in your sig if you're having trouble.

Let's not look very long at my signature.

To lower abortion without permitting it needs us all to give generously the poor. That is the most important thing we can do right now for each other materially. We must hold the wealthy and powerful to account.

No, I think we should take a long look at the evil beliefs that make up your personal idealogy. :)
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:19 am

New haven america wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Let's not look very long at my signature.

To lower abortion without permitting it needs us all to give generously the poor. That is the most important thing we can do right now for each other materially. We must hold the wealthy and powerful to account.

No, I think we should take a long look at the evil beliefs that make up your personal idealogy. :)

:lol:
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:31 am

Sundiata wrote:
New haven america wrote:No, I think we should take a long look at the evil beliefs that make up your personal idealogy. :)

:lol:

So to join the cult in the 2nd line do you have to pay a fee or do they have an open-door policy?
Last edited by New haven america on Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:41 am

Spokesland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:This is a discussion forum, not a blog. If you are posting here and thinking people would or should not respond to posts you make then you are sorely mistaken.


I'm sorry if that message was not conveyed clearly, but I was referring to the quotation marks, not my post as a whole

My point still stands: if you expect people here not to comment on what you have written then you are sorely mistaken.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:44 am

Sundiata wrote:
New haven america wrote:There's 3 examples in your sig if you're having trouble.

Let's not look very long at my signature.

To lower abortion without permitting it needs us all to give generously the poor. That is the most important thing we can do right now for each other materially. We must hold the wealthy and powerful to account.

This is code for: please don't look at the evidence that contradicts what I have just said.

:roll:
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Spokesland
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Postby Spokesland » Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:28 am

Sundiata wrote:

It's not really a problem with messaging. It's more that the United States isn't a full democracy, it's an oligarchy with limits on democracy like gerrymandering, the electoral college, corporate lobbying, and lifelong supreme court appointments. That's why Roe v Wade is gone. Most Americans support legal abortion.


I do agree with you, of course I would love for the people I support to have the majority every year, but nearly every decision really comes down to how many people one party has in office, and because we are coming off four years of GOP majority and newly appointed Supreme Court members every decision going into the Supreme Court may not turn out the way the citizens want.
Last edited by Spokesland on Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:06 am

Spokesland wrote:
Sundiata wrote:It's not really a problem with messaging. It's more that the United States isn't a full democracy, it's an oligarchy with limits on democracy like gerrymandering, the electoral college, corporate lobbying, and lifelong supreme court appointments. That's why Roe v Wade is gone. Most Americans support legal abortion.


I do agree with you, of course I would love for the people I support to have the majority every year, but nearly every decision really comes down to how many people one party has in office, and because we are coming off four years of GOP majority and newly appointed Supreme Court members every decision going into the Supreme Court may not turn out the way the citizens want.


Well we are only coming off of 4 years of GOP control because the US doesn't have a great democracy, after all Trump lost in the popular vote and because of how the Senate is set up the Republican have a huge advantage there as well.
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Dystopian Florida
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Postby Dystopian Florida » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:50 am

But is Roe one hundred percent gone now or just weakened to irrelevance? Also, while Democrats under terms of democratic legitimacy should have won every election after 2004, they aren't the best champions of democracy themselves. Mind you, I'm not the biggest proponent of democracy myself. In my darker moods, which is often when I'm posting here, I have real doubts as to the wisdom of trusting the masses. In my lighter ones, I'm more populist in sentiment. I'm also nostalgic for the old, non-woke left, but that's another issue.
Last edited by Dystopian Florida on Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:52 am

Dystopian Florida wrote:But is Roe one hundred percent gone now or just weakened to irrelevance?


It’s significantly weakened. We don’t have a ruling in the Mississippi case yet.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:55 am

Dystopian Florida wrote:But is Roe one hundred percent gone now or just weakened to irrelevance? Also, while Democrats under terms of democratic legitimacy should have won every election after 2004, they aren't the best champions of democracy themselves. Mind you, I'm not the biggest proponent of democracy myself. In my darker moods, which is often when I'm posting here, I have real doubts as to the wisdom of trusting the masses. In my lighter ones, I'm more populist in sentiment. I'm also nostalgic for the old, non-woke left, but that's another issue.


You do realise "woke" doesn't actually mean anything, right?
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Dystopian Florida
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Postby Dystopian Florida » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:58 am

Vassenor wrote:
Dystopian Florida wrote:But is Roe one hundred percent gone now or just weakened to irrelevance? Also, while Democrats under terms of democratic legitimacy should have won every election after 2004, they aren't the best champions of democracy themselves. Mind you, I'm not the biggest proponent of democracy myself. In my darker moods, which is often when I'm posting here, I have real doubts as to the wisdom of trusting the masses. In my lighter ones, I'm more populist in sentiment. I'm also nostalgic for the old, non-woke left, but that's another issue.


You do realise "woke" doesn't actually mean anything, right?


Well, what I mean is that I'm nostalgic for the left that didn't try to appease and coddle people and focused far more on bread and butter issues. Fighting racism is good, but microaggressions are, by definition, "micro." As in petty, small, and often entirely inside one's own mind, with no ill intent by the alleged perpetrator.
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:06 am

Dystopian Florida wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
You do realise "woke" doesn't actually mean anything, right?


Well, what I mean is that I'm nostalgic for the left that didn't try to appease and coddle people and focused far more on bread and butter issues. Fighting racism is good, but microaggressions are, by definition, "micro." As in petty, small, and often entirely inside one's own mind, with no ill intent by the alleged perpetrator.


Ill will is not required for something to have negative outcomes. While an individual micro aggression is small, the compounding effects of a lifetime of them has major consequences. Micro aggressions are not made up, but the result of a society that is built on racist roots and continues to maintain white supremacy.

Fighting racism is a bread and butter issue for millions of Americans who suffer from it and form a large portion of the Democratic parties base.
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Dystopian Florida
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Postby Dystopian Florida » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:07 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Dystopian Florida wrote:
Well, what I mean is that I'm nostalgic for the left that didn't try to appease and coddle people and focused far more on bread and butter issues. Fighting racism is good, but microaggressions are, by definition, "micro." As in petty, small, and often entirely inside one's own mind, with no ill intent by the alleged perpetrator.


Ill will is not required for something to have negative outcomes. While an individual micro aggression is small, the compounding effects of a lifetime of them has major consequences. Micro aggressions are not made up, but the result of a society that is built on racist roots and continues to maintain white supremacy.

Fighting racism is a bread and butter issue for millions of Americans who suffer from it and form a large portion of the Democratic parties base.


I don't disagree with resisting racism, but one shouldn't see racist ghosts around every corner.
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:14 am

Dystopian Florida wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
Ill will is not required for something to have negative outcomes. While an individual micro aggression is small, the compounding effects of a lifetime of them has major consequences. Micro aggressions are not made up, but the result of a society that is built on racist roots and continues to maintain white supremacy.

Fighting racism is a bread and butter issue for millions of Americans who suffer from it and form a large portion of the Democratic parties base.


I don't disagree with resisting racism, but one shouldn't see racist ghosts around every corner.


Moved this conversation to the American Politics thread where it is more appropriate.
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Alcala-Cordel
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:18 am

Great Algerstonia wrote:
American Salvation wrote:No, that's just incorrect.

"People with uteruses" are women, of course.

Dude's literally a man, he shouldn't be deciding what women are called. Every woman I know would not be comfortable with being called a "person with a uterus" and if I were to call a woman I just met a "person with a uterus" she would probably walk away and never talk to me again.

So you don't know that many women
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:52 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Spokesland wrote:
I do agree with you, of course I would love for the people I support to have the majority every year, but nearly every decision really comes down to how many people one party has in office, and because we are coming off four years of GOP majority and newly appointed Supreme Court members every decision going into the Supreme Court may not turn out the way the citizens want.


Well we are only coming off of 4 years of GOP control because the US doesn't have a great democracy, after all Trump lost in the popular vote and because of how the Senate is set up the Republican have a huge advantage there as well.

Exactly.
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Rifts Earth
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Postby Rifts Earth » Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:57 am

New haven america wrote:
Sundiata wrote:This time the system works in my favor. I'm against abortion but it still needs to be changed for the better.

That because your ideology is based on evil despite you believing it's holy.

I've heard of the pot calling the kettle black, but never the pot calling the snow black.
Christianity has endured through 2,000 years, often in spite of active persecution and civilizational collapse.

Every humanist ideology since the so-called "enlightenment" has collapsed within a century.

Who do you think is going to survive when (not if) the West - and modernity as we know it - suffers systemic collapse? Your tribe? Or mine?

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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:01 pm

Rifts Earth wrote:
New haven america wrote:That because your ideology is based on evil despite you believing it's holy.

I've heard of the pot calling the kettle black, but never the pot calling the snow black.

So if someone needs an abortion for life-saving reasons, the morally good and correct thing to do is to cut out the entire reproductive system?
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