[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Spokesland]

Yeah, but yeah.

I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who have uteri but are not women.

If I may ask, were they affected by the MRKH syndrome, or do they "identify as a man"

[Vassenor]

I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who have uteri but are not women.

If I may ask, were they affected by the MRKH syndrome, or do they "identify as a man"

Those scare quotes are doing a lot of heavy lifting in that post.

[Spokesland]

Those scare quotes are doing a lot of heavy lifting in that post.

I put quotation marks around it because I do not believe in it and so I believe that quotation marks were essential, and if you oppose my beliefs and quoting please ignore it and move on because that was a comment given by a person, and a person is full of opinion

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

ok who's puppet is this

[The New California Republic]

Those scare quotes are doing a lot of heavy lifting in that post.

I put quotation marks around it because I do not believe in it and so I believe that quotation marks were essential, and if you oppose my beliefs and quoting please ignore it and move on because that was a comment given by a person, and a person is full of opinion

This is a discussion forum, not a blog. If you are posting here and thinking people would or should not respond to posts you make then you are sorely mistaken.

[Spokesland]

This is a discussion forum, not a blog. If you are posting here and thinking people would or should not respond to posts you make then you are sorely mistaken.

I'm sorry if that message was not conveyed clearly, but I was referring to the quotation marks, not my post as a whole

[Great Algerstonia]

It's anti-poor and anti people with uteruses (not everyone with a uterus and able to become pregnant is a woman).

No, that's just incorrect.

"People with uteruses" are women, of course.

Dude's literally a man, he shouldn't be deciding what women are called. Every woman I know would not be comfortable with being called a "person with a uterus" and if I were to call a woman I just met a "person with a uterus" she would probably walk away and never talk to me again.

[Maricarland]

No, that's just incorrect.

"People with uteruses" are women, of course.

Dude's literally a man, he shouldn't be deciding what women are called. Every woman I know would not be comfortable with being called a "person with a uterus" and if I were to call a woman I just met a "person with a uterus" she would probably walk away and never talk to me again.

I am not deciding what women are called. In the context of the abortion argument, there are non-women who are able to become pregnant, and we need language that includes them as well as women.

[Necroghastia]

No, that's just incorrect.

"People with uteruses" are women, of course.

Dude's literally a man, he shouldn't be deciding what women are called. Every woman I know would not be comfortable with being called a "person with a uterus" and if I were to call a woman I just met a "person with a uterus" she would probably walk away and never talk to me again.

Every person with a uterus I know that is not a woman would not appreciate being called a woman. In addition, no shit sherlock, context matters.

[Spokesland]

I am not deciding what women are called. In the context of the abortion argument, there are non-women who are able to become pregnant, and we need language that includes them as well as women.

wait wait wait, explain this to me, non-women by biological sex or by gender identity, just curious about what you are saying here

[Katganistan]

Who do you think are hurt wort by abortion bans?
The poor, who are then faced with how to afford raising them, and vilified for accepting public assistance.

They can always resort to the diy abortions that quite possibly will kill them. Or render them infertile.
I think the abortion ban is less anti women and more anti poor.

It's antiboth, because it tries to control women's health/lives. A woman can be affected via control/damage of her body, and also by the financial strains. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Katganistan]

Yeah, but yeah.

I'll let my sister know she isn't a woman anymore...
Involuntary hysterectomy due to medical necessity. So guess I have an extra brother now?

Don't worry, that''s ok in Sun's book. I mean they've been promoting it throughout the thread.

[Maricarland]

I am not deciding what women are called. In the context of the abortion argument, there are non-women who are able to become pregnant, and we need language that includes them as well as women.

wait wait wait, explain this to me, non-women by biological sex or by gender identity, just curious about what you are saying here

Examples of non-women who may be able to become pregnant:

* Transmen
* Non-Binary people
* Intersex people
* (maybe in the future) Transwomen and Cismen with uterus transplants

[Great Algerstonia]

Dude's literally a man, he shouldn't be deciding what women are called. Every woman I know would not be comfortable with being called a "person with a uterus" and if I were to call a woman I just met a "person with a uterus" she would probably walk away and never talk to me again.

Every person with a uterus I know that is not a woman would not appreciate being called a woman. In addition, no shit sherlock, context matters.

Sure, call them what they want to be called, not what you want to call them.

[Great Algerstonia]

wait wait wait, explain this to me, non-women by biological sex or by gender identity, just curious about what you are saying here

Examples of non-women who may be able to become pregnant:

* Transmen
* Non-Binary people
* Intersex people
* (maybe in the future) Transwomen and Cismen with uterus transplants

Cis!? My allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!

[HISPIDA]

Examples of non-women who may be able to become pregnant:

* Transmen
* Non-Binary people
* Intersex people
* (maybe in the future) Transwomen and Cismen with uterus transplants

Cis!? My allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!

if you're not with me, you're my enemy!

[Maricarland]

Examples of non-women who may be able to become pregnant:

* Transmen
* Non-Binary people
* Intersex people
* (maybe in the future) Transwomen and Cismen with uterus transplants

Cis!? My allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!

There is some research being done (though not much) to develop procedures that would allow for transplanting a functional uterus into someone without the normal reproductive anatomy for becoming pregnant. This would allow transwomen (who are women, I mistakenly included them in the list of non-women that may be able to get pregnant) and cismen to carry their child if they wish.

[Spokesland]

wait wait wait, explain this to me, non-women by biological sex or by gender identity, just curious about what you are saying here

Examples of non-women who may be able to become pregnant:

* Transmen
* Non-Binary people
* Intersex people
* (maybe in the future) Transwomen and Cismen with uterus transplants

OK, so disregarding the maybe statement, abortion is a matter heavily supported and equally denounced by using scientific logic, so can we just say, biological women who may also identify as something else, or to shorten, just biological women

[Great Algerstonia]

Cis!? My allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!

There is some research being done (though not much) to develop procedures that would allow for transplanting a functional uterus into someone without the normal reproductive anatomy for becoming pregnant. This would allow transwomen (who are women, I mistakenly included them in the list of non-women that may be able to get pregnant) and cismen to carry their child if they wish.

Something's not right. I can feel it.

[Maricarland]

There is some research being done (though not much) to develop procedures that would allow for transplanting a functional uterus into someone without the normal reproductive anatomy for becoming pregnant. This would allow transwomen (who are women, I mistakenly included them in the list of non-women that may be able to get pregnant) and cismen to carry their child if they wish.

Something's not right. I can feel it.

Can you explain?

I think that this kind of research is useful (though it is controversial, experimental, low-priority, and currently minimal), as it helps free people from the limits of their biology. If they want a body capable of carrying a child, they should be able to have one regardless of biological sex, gender identity, or gender presentation.

Though, I can see some legitimate arguments against this, especially since right now there is not much to back it up.

Though, if (in the future) someone who was not born with the reproductive anatomy to become pregnant decides later on to acquire such anatomy, and ends up pregnant when they did not want to be pregnant (maybe they wanted to wait longer, maybe they were raped, maybe its the wrong partner, etc...) they should also be free to get an abortion.

Regardless of future biomedical technology, there are populations today able to get pregnant that are not women (some transmen, some non-binary people, and some biologically intersex people - regardless if they were born intersex or not), and we should use language that includes them with women as well.

---

Getting a bit back on track.

If our goal is to protect bodily autonomy, bodily privacy, and the right to get an abortion for people able to become pregnant, I think the best course of action (and the only realistic course of action) is to codify abortion rights into federal law.

[Stellar Colonies]

The main issue regarding "people with uteri" is that it's a fairly awkward phrase which can be interpreted as being demeaning, as if it reduces someone to them having a uterus or something. A more streamlined word or phrase would probably solve that.

Regarding implantable uteruses, being able to extract and safely transplant a fetus into another person would probably have an interesting impact on abortion, although that sort of procedure is likely a long way off even if possible.

[Maricarland]

The Mainstream Abortion Rights Movement Needs a Complete Rethinking of Strategy

[Sundiata]

The Mainstream Abortion Rights Movement Needs a Complete Rethinking of Strategy

It's not really a problem with messaging. It's more that the United States isn't a full democracy, it's an oligarchy with limits on democracy like gerrymandering, the electoral college, corporate lobbying, and lifelong supreme court appointments. That's why Roe v Wade is gone. Most Americans support legal abortion.

[Maricarland]

The Mainstream Abortion Rights Movement Needs a Complete Rethinking of Strategy

It's not really a problem with messaging. It's more that the United States isn't a full democracy, it's an oligarchy with limits on democracy like gerrymandering, the electoral college, corporate lobbying, and lifelong supreme court appointments. That's why Roe v Wade is gone. Most Americans support legal abortion.

Those are some very good points.

[The Alma Mater]

There is some research being done (though not much) to develop procedures that would allow for transplanting a functional uterus into someone without the normal reproductive anatomy for becoming pregnant. This would allow transwomen (who are women, I mistakenly included them in the list of non-women that may be able to get pregnant) and cismen to carry their child if they wish.

Something's not right. I can feel it.

You mean how it would lead to pro-lifer men being forced to serve as surrogate "mothers" ?
I see no downside.