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[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What would you consider to be the best 'compromise'?

Reduce abortions with welfare supports / other non-invasive measures, leave access untouched.
132
33%
Set conditions under which abortions can be accessed.
83
21%
Allow free access, under a given time limit.
38
9%
Allow free access, but give men an option to excuse themselves from child support.
40
10%
HELL WITH COMPROMISE, IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
86
21%
Look out! They're here! Pink Elephants on Parade! Here they come, hippity hoppity!
22
5%
 
Total votes : 401

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Arlenton
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:42 am

Sundiata wrote:
Arlenton wrote:More electoral votes and congressional seats for Southern states.

Because the southern states wanted to maintain slavery.

Basic history facts. Thank you.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:42 am

Arlenton wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Correct, they are forcing states to allow women the choice. No one in federal power is mandating women get an abortion.

And the point is?

Point being no one is forced to get an abortion, and what you advocate is attempting to force women not to have an abortion which will in turn kill more individuals, and permanently disable many more due to them having unsafe abortions.
Last edited by Neutraligon on Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:43 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
Why does the fetus get the right to steal a women's body?
Rape is the more pressing problem.

Terrorism is the more pressing problem (you see how this doesn't actually address the point, and is stupid?)
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:44 am

Neanderthaland wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Rape is the more pressing problem.

Terrorism is the more pressing problem (you see how this doesn't actually address the point, and is stupid?)

Rape doesn't make abortion right.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:44 am

Sundiata wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Terrorism is the more pressing problem (you see how this doesn't actually address the point, and is stupid?)

Rape doesn't make abortion right.

Your comment on rape is pretty much irrelevant to abortion.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:45 am

Sundiata wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Terrorism is the more pressing problem (you see how this doesn't actually address the point, and is stupid?)

Rape doesn't make abortion right.

Another thing that has nothing at all to do with the point being made. People don't have the right to occupy other people's bodies without their consent. That applies to both the born and the unborn.
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:45 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
Why does the fetus get the right to steal a women's body?
Rape is the more pressing problem.


Not to someone who wants to get an abortion. You didn't actually answer the question but instead deflected.

Sundiata wrote:
Second, who is being killed in the 99% of abortions that take place before the fetus even has a brain?

The embryo, that human being.

Embryo isn't a person. Doesn't have any ability to be a person.
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Arlenton
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:45 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I don't think that anyone has any right to an abortion. Abortion is not simply a woman's issue. It's an issue of killing.


Why does the fetus get the right to steal a women's body?

Second, who is being killed in the 99% of abortions that take place before the fetus even has a brain?

Arlenton wrote:No one. But there are people currently, as in it is currently the law now, using federal power that is forcing state policy on abortion.


Right, forcing the states to let women have abortions. No one is forcing anyone to have abortions though. So no one is actually forcing you to do anything you don't want to do, they are just not letting you force other people to do something they don't want to do.

So again, why should you be able to dictate if someone else can or can't have an abortion?

The things others are trying to force me to do are outside of abortion and outside the scope of this thread, yet are very much by I support the McConnell court strategy.

As for abortion, I do oppose Roe on states' rights grounds. In the case of abortion, something I tend to believe should be legal, this is more of a "how the government(s) should function" issue to me as opposed to whether I think abortion should be legal or not.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:46 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Rape doesn't make abortion right.

Your comment on rape is pretty much irrelevant to abortion.

It's wrong to abort a pregnancy for being unwanted.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:47 am

Sundiata wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Your comment on rape is pretty much irrelevant to abortion.

It's wrong to abort a pregnancy for being unwanted.

Your opinion is unwanted.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:47 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Sundiata wrote:It's wrong to abort a pregnancy for being unwanted.

Your opinion is unwanted.

Ok.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:47 am

Sundiata wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Your comment on rape is pretty much irrelevant to abortion.

It's wrong to abort a pregnancy for being unwanted.

Just constant non-sequiturs with you. Jesus. It's like talking to a bot.
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Arlenton
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:48 am

Sundiata wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Your comment on rape is pretty much irrelevant to abortion.

It's wrong to abort a pregnancy for being unwanted.

Maybe to some, not everyone.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:50 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:Embryo isn't a person. Doesn't have any ability to be a person.

Why do you say that? That doesn't sound true.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Spirit of Hope
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:50 am

Arlenton wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
Why does the fetus get the right to steal a women's body?

Second, who is being killed in the 99% of abortions that take place before the fetus even has a brain?



Right, forcing the states to let women have abortions. No one is forcing anyone to have abortions though. So no one is actually forcing you to do anything you don't want to do, they are just not letting you force other people to do something they don't want to do.

So again, why should you be able to dictate if someone else can or can't have an abortion?

The things others are trying to force me to do are outside of abortion and outside the scope of this thread, yet are very much by I support the McConnell court strategy.

As for abortion, I do oppose Roe on states' rights grounds. In the case of abortion, something I tend to believe should be legal, this is more of a "how the government(s) should function" issue to me as opposed to whether I think abortion should be legal or not.


The government shouldn't take peoples rights away because it offends some people morality. You are directly arguing that the government should have the right to take peoples rights away because someone finds it objectionable and then turning around and complaining when someone is doing that to you.

Sundiata wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Your comment on rape is pretty much irrelevant to abortion.

It's wrong to abort a pregnancy for being unwanted.


Doesn't answer why the fetus should be able to highjack a woman's body. You can believe something is morally wrong, that doesn't give you the right to deny other people the ability to do it.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:51 am

Abolish the 2nd amendment because civvies with guns personally offends me lmao

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:52 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:Doesn't answer why the fetus should be able to highjack a woman's body. You can believe something is morally wrong, that doesn't give you the right to deny other people the ability to do it.

It absolutely does if I'm right.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Spirit of Hope
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Posts: 11560
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:53 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Embryo isn't a person. Doesn't have any ability to be a person.

Why do you say that? That doesn't sound true.


A fetus before 20 weeks (when 99% of abortions take place) doesn't have a brain. You require a brain to do things like breath or think or feel.
Fact Book.
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Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Posts: 21974
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:53 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Doesn't answer why the fetus should be able to highjack a woman's body. You can believe something is morally wrong, that doesn't give you the right to deny other people the ability to do it.

It absolutely does if I'm right.

consider: Thinking that you are 100% right all the time is the sin of hubris.

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:54 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Sundiata wrote:It absolutely does if I'm right.

consider: Thinking that you are 100% right all the time is the sin of hubris.

I agree with that premise.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Spirit of Hope
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:54 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Doesn't answer why the fetus should be able to highjack a woman's body. You can believe something is morally wrong, that doesn't give you the right to deny other people the ability to do it.

It absolutely does if I'm right.


I think Catholicism is immoral, should I be allowed to ban Catholicism?
Fact Book.
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Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:56 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Why do you say that? That doesn't sound true.


A fetus before 20 weeks (when 99% of abortions take place) doesn't have a brain. You require a brain to do things like breath or think or feel.

But some people can't do things like breath, or think or feel. These people should still have rights.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:56 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Sundiata wrote:It absolutely does if I'm right.


I think Catholicism is immoral, should I be allowed to ban Catholicism?

If you're right, yes.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Spirit of Hope
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:58 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
A fetus before 20 weeks (when 99% of abortions take place) doesn't have a brain. You require a brain to do things like breath or think or feel.

But some people can't do things like breath, or think or feel. These people should still have rights.


A fetus has no brain, they are brain dead. Are you arguing that dead people should have more rights than living people?

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
I think Catholicism is immoral, should I be allowed to ban Catholicism?

If you're right, yes.


So how do you define "right?"
Last edited by Spirit of Hope on Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

User avatar
Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:59 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Sundiata wrote:But some people can't do things like breath, or think or feel. These people should still have rights.


A fetus has no brain, they are brain dead. Are you arguing that dead people should have more rights than living people?

No, I'm arguing that brain-dead people should have the same rights as people who are not brain-dead.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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