[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Sundiata]

Better a mother than a participant in a killing.

Just because one has created something, doesn't mean they are loving it. (Do you love abscesses, kidney stones or your other excrement?)
Just because a woman gets pregnant, doesn't make her a mother. Parenthood is chosen. It really is a calling. It definitely is not for everyone.

To force people to become parents is immoral. It promotes suffering, negligence and abuse.

Unborn human beings are not abscesses, kidney stones, or excrement. To be born is a calling.

[Neuer California]

Even in cases where there is no way the zygote will ever develop into a baby? Ectopic pregnancies routinely end with the zygote/fetus dead or aborted because there's no way they'll become viable and having them continue to "develop" greatly endangers the mother for no benefit to her or the zygote.

Yes: the principle of double effect.

Doing something wrong for the right reason is still wrong.

Just a reminder that Sun honestly believes that it is wrong to abort a non-viable pregnancy that can easily put the mother's life at risk because "life."

If that is actually wrong, I don't want to be right

[Neuer California]

Just because one has created something, doesn't mean they are loving it. (Do you love abscesses, kidney stones or your other excrement?)
Just because a woman gets pregnant, doesn't make her a mother. Parenthood is chosen. It really is a calling. It definitely is not for everyone.

To force people to become parents is immoral. It promotes suffering, negligence and abuse.

Unborn human beings are not abscesses, kidney stones, or excrement. To be born is a calling.

A calling from...?

[Sundiata]

Unborn human beings are not abscesses, kidney stones, or excrement. To be born is a calling.

A calling from...?

Human nature at its best.

[New haven america]

A calling from...?

Human nature at its best.

The human body believes the fetus to be a parasite and tries to kill it.

Especially if the mother and fetus have a different blood type, the mom has to put on immunosuppressants or else have a miscarriage.

[Grave_n_idle]

A calling from...?

Human nature at its best.

'Human nature' doesn't have any preferences. Stop trying to anthropomorphize reproduction.

(You neglected to address your misuse of the morality/immorality arguments a few pages back too - I'm reminding you).

[Neutraligon]

Where is this responsibility from?

Lex Naturalis.

Men owe it to women to support them when they become mothers. Anything less than that is truly a culture of misogyny and hatred towards women.

Provide evidence that natural law exists, and then provide evidence that what you claim to be part of it is actually part of it.

[Neutraligon]

Just because one has created something, doesn't mean they are loving it. (Do you love abscesses, kidney stones or your other excrement?)
Just because a woman gets pregnant, doesn't make her a mother. Parenthood is chosen. It really is a calling. It definitely is not for everyone.

To force people to become parents is immoral. It promotes suffering, negligence and abuse.

Unborn human beings are not abscesses, kidney stones, or excrement. To be born is a calling.

Considering well over half of all inseminations ends in a miscarriage... yeah no way it is a calling (whatever that means)

[The New California Republic]

We get it, you view women solely as brood mares.

You don't have to repeat it 10000 times, we got it the 500th time.

No. Broodmares? Not anymore than men are Stallions, or the metaphorical equivalent. We're all just people, including the unborn.

You have yet to prove that the fetus has personhood.

[The New California Republic]

[...] To be born is a calling.

An empty phrase devoid of meaning. Actually explain what this phrase means to you, as to everyone else it's just noise.

[Thepeopl]

A calling from...?

Human nature at its best.

Human nature also calls for murder, killing, stealing deceiving. I think we can safely ignore the calling of human nature/ lex naturalis

[Celritannia]

Just because one has created something, doesn't mean they are loving it. (Do you love abscesses, kidney stones or your other excrement?)
Just because a woman gets pregnant, doesn't make her a mother. Parenthood is chosen. It really is a calling. It definitely is not for everyone.

To force people to become parents is immoral. It promotes suffering, negligence and abuse.

Unborn human beings are not abscesses, kidney stones, or excrement. To be born is a calling.

"To be born is a calling" is a religious argument.

[Celritannia]

No the point of the legislation is not revenge, it is to point out the absurdity of the abortion debate, that the way the abortion debate is framed is fundamentally anti-woman. After all, why is it women are the ones punished for the pregnancy while men are not held responsible?

A man who makes love with a woman has a moral responsibility to her, and especially if that act results in pregnancy, he has a responsibility to her and their children.

No he does not.
Anyone who has made love knows a woman has a responsibility for herself

[Godular]

There is no such ‘responsibility’ in natural law. Natural law rather specifically countermands your claim at the outset.

There is if a man wants to be the best he can be in paternal circumstances. For the good of humanity, it doesn't make sense not to.

That's not a natural law. That's you using your conclusion as evidence.

[Godular]

So is forcing to go through birth against their will but that doesn't stop you...

Better a mother than a participant in a killing.

Welp, guess she should just let the rapist finish then! Better she become a mother against her will than kill another person in self-defense!

#fuckthatnoise

[Thepeopl]

Just because one has created something, doesn't mean they are loving it. (Do you love abscesses, kidney stones or your other excrement?)
Just because a woman gets pregnant, doesn't make her a mother. Parenthood is chosen. It really is a calling. It definitely is not for everyone.

To force people to become parents is immoral. It promotes suffering, negligence and abuse.

Unborn human beings are not abscesses, kidney stones, or excrement. To be born is a calling.

Definition of calling
1: a strong inner impulse toward a particular course of action especially when accompanied by conviction of divine influence
2: the vocation or profession in which one customarily engages
3: the characteristic cry of a female cat in heat
also : the period of heat


The first known use of calling was in the 13th century
See more words from the same century

Dictionary Entries Near calling
Callinectes

calling

calling card

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Phrases Related to calling
miss one's calling

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Cite this Entry

“Calling.” Merriam-Webster.com Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calling. Accessed 25 Oct. 2021.

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More Definitions for calling
calling noun
English Language Learners Definition of calling
: a strong desire to spend your life doing a certain kind of work (such as religious work)
: the work that a person does or should be doing
See the full definition for calling in the English Language Learners Dictionary

calling noun
call·​ing | \ ˈkȯ-liŋ \
Kids Definition of calling
: a profession especially that a person feels strongly about
Teaching was his true calling.
calling noun
call·​ing | \ ˈkȯ-liŋ \
Medical Definition of calling
: the characteristic cry of a female cat in heat
also : the period of heat

So, where in these definitions does" being born " fall? Children don't feel the urge to be born/ to live. Because it's not their choice.

A calling is voluntary. You are choosing one thing over another. Like parenthood, you choose to share your means with a child, to sacrifice your sleep, to educate them to be the best they can.

Being born, you don't have a choice. Hence no calling.

[Sundiata]

Better a mother than a participant in a killing.

Welp, guess she should just let the rapist finish then! Better she become a mother against her will than kill another person in self-defense!

#fuckthatnoise

What do you mean? Why would you approve of rape? Neither rape or anyone's killing is ideal.

[Sundiata]

A man who makes love with a woman has a moral responsibility to her, and especially if that act results in pregnancy, he has a responsibility to her and their children.

No he does not.
Anyone who has made love knows a woman has a responsibility for herself

He absolutely does and these responsibilities are not mutually exclusive.

[The Holy Therns]

Welp, guess she should just let the rapist finish then! Better she become a mother against her will than kill another person in self-defense!

#fuckthatnoise

What do you mean? Why would you approve of rape? Neither rape or anyone's killing is ideal.

Neither is forcing a woman into an unwanted pregnancy because a man forced himself upon her. I'd call it appalling, frankly.

[The New California Republic]

Welp, guess she should just let the rapist finish then! Better she become a mother against her will than kill another person in self-defense!

#fuckthatnoise

What do you mean? Why would you approve of rape? Neither rape or anyone's killing is ideal.

Godular isn't approving of rape, read between the lines, what is being said is squarely aimed at your position.

[The Holy Therns]

What do you mean? Why would you approve of rape? Neither rape or anyone's killing is ideal.

Godular isn't approving of rape, read between the lines, what is being said is squarely aimed at your position.

Perhaps sarcasm is ungodly?

[Sundiata]

Human nature at its best.

Human nature also calls for murder, killing, stealing deceiving. I think we can safely ignore the calling of human nature/ lex naturalis

Not at it's best, specifically. Independent of state authority these things are wrong and not conducive to the good of humanity.

[Godular]

Welp, guess she should just let the rapist finish then! Better she become a mother against her will than kill another person in self-defense!

#fuckthatnoise

What do you mean? Why would you approve of rape? Neither rape or anyone's killing is ideal.

I simply extended your logic to a 'natural' conclusion, in order to point out how absolutely bullshit your logic is. A woman should very much be able to defend herself with deadly force, and that does not change even remotely between born persons and not-born.

Your position is internally inconsistent and frankly outright horrifying.

[The New California Republic]

Human nature also calls for murder, killing, stealing deceiving. I think we can safely ignore the calling of human nature/ lex naturalis

Not at it's best, specifically. Independent of state authority these things are wrong and not conducive to the good of humanity.

You were harping on about lex naturalis, you can't suddenly shift the goalposts just because your position has been exposed as absurd.

[Godular]

No he does not.
Anyone who has made love knows a woman has a responsibility for herself

He absolutely does and these responsibilities are not mutually exclusive.

This responsibility does not 'absolutely' exist. There is no evidence of its existence other than your wishful thinking, which itself is tremendously warped.