[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Godular]

it's almost as though the definition of despicable is subjective

THats my opinion. Oh wait! your not allowed to have opinions on this site anymore as I learned today.

Oh, you're perfectly allowed to 'have opinions' on this website... but this right here is a debate forum. You bring it up, you back it up. If you just wanted to state your opinions you could have just popped in with a one-and-done and not given it another thought.

[Giovenith]

Again, being dismissive and disparaging doesn't change anything. You can insult women until you're blue in the face, that won't make them want an abortion any less.

No but the states can make it very hard to get one. Like they did in South Dakota, Texas, and Utah.

Get stick bugged lol.

How long did it take you to put this together?

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[Northern Connecticut]

No but the states can make it very hard to get one. Like they did in South Dakota, Texas, and Utah.

Get stick bugged lol.

How long did it take you to put this together?

*** Warning for Flaming and Flamebaiting ***

Personal attacks and responses that are clearly designed to try to rile up your opponent are not acceptable here. Please review our rules and stick to them if you want to remain welcome on this site.

It wasn't flambating it was a legitimate question. and that wasn't really flaming ethier.

[Godular]

*** Warning for Flaming and Flamebaiting ***

Personal attacks and responses that are clearly designed to try to rile up your opponent are not acceptable here. Please review our rules and stick to them if you want to remain welcome on this site.

It wasn't flambating it was a legitimate question. and that wasn't really flaming ethier.

Appeals should be made in the moderation forum, not here.

[Northern Connecticut]

YOU brought the mods into this. So YOU can shut up.

[Grave_n_idle]

YOU brought the mods into this. So YOU can shut up.

Godular offered you advice.

You've been told by mods that your action was moderatable - it's irrelevant who 'brought them into it'.

If you want to object to the moderator decision, take it to the moderation thread.

[Vassenor]

Some women are misogynists.

Quite a bind. if you support a dispicable practice, then your PC, but if you disagree. Your a misogynist.

Apparently it's despicable for women to be something other than baby factories with legs now.

[Northern Connecticut]

Its not advice. I know how to make appeals. I sure make alot of them actually. Because people use the mods to surpress ideas they dont believe in.

[Godular]

Its not advice. I know how to make appeals. I sure make alot of them actually. Because people use the mods to surpress ideas they dont believe in.

This is not a thread for discussion of moderation decisions. If you wish to contest a moderator ruling, keep it in moderation.

Continuing to speak of it here serves no purpose.

[Northern Connecticut]

GO ahead. Im done here. This whole experiance leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Vassenor]

GO ahead. Im done here. This whole experiance leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I mean you didn't actually leave the discussion last time you made a show of leaving the discussion, so...

[San Lumen]

Ive already made my stance clear, but just to reiterate,
Abortion is murder and not a right
If you really don't want the fetus enough to kill it then give it up for adoption after its born
Im going offline now.

It cannot be murder if a fetus is not a person. Why does a fetus get more rights than any person?

Innocence is not a argument in the case of rape or incest as something that is not sentient cannot have it.

[Vassenor]

In a move that will shock no-one, the attempted defence of the 15 week abortion ban in MS also includes attempts to invalidate Lawrence v. Texas and Obergefell v. Hodges.

[The Alma Mater]

I note how you make no comment about the promiscuous man who decided to stick his dick in the woman.
Why is that ?

If you looked at earlier posts, you would have seen the fact that I said, "Rape is a different case"

Who is talking about rape ? I just note that your posts are entirely focussed on punishing and insulting women and that you seem completely uninterested in actually preventing abortions.

Like 99% of pro-lifers.

[Royal Frankia]

Ive already made my stance clear, but just to reiterate,
Abortion is murder and not a right
If you really don't want the fetus enough to kill it then give it up for adoption after its born
Im going offline now.

It cannot be murder if a fetus is not a person. Why does a fetus get more rights than any person?

Innocence is not a argument in the case of rape or incest as something that is not sentient cannot have it.

A fetus is a human being scientifically, distinct from both parents, while personhood is historically sketchy. Black slaves were considered three-fifths of a person in the 19th century and Slavs were considered subhumans by the Nazis. It is the termination of a life, that is something I believe that we can all agree on, and something done mostly for economic reasons. There is a disconnect on this issue with the Left, as they seem to believe in pie in the sky welfare programs while clutching their wallets at the notion of supporting children with orphanages/healthcare/aid for nursing mothers/ect.

I see people defending the lives of rapists, who have violated the autonomy of a human being, than say a fetus who is of the mother's blood. Why does the former have a right to their lives after committing a heinous act while the other who had no say in how they were conceived should be dispatched forthwith? Society should show compassion on the latter and the mother who is a victim, the rapist ought to be strung up if he is clearly guilty.

[Royal Frankia]

If you looked at earlier posts, you would have seen the fact that I said, "Rape is a different case"

Who is talking about rape ? I just note that your posts are entirely focussed on punishing and insulting women and that you seem completely uninterested in actually preventing abortions.

Like 99% of pro-lifers.

This is due to the fact that most pro-lifers embrace Ayn Rand without much thought that such notions permit what they are against. The Left also is guilty of condemning poor children to death while claiming that a rich nation can have universal everything except prenatal and childcare. Getting ahead in the world with innocent blood historically has consequences, with which society today is already dealing with.

The boys being boys culture must end, there must be responsibility as said boys will become men. Men must reform themselves before they can cast scorn on women who engage in the same behavior. If you choose to engage in sexual activity outside of wedlock you are consenting to the consequences, as in child support or disease or anything of that sort.

[San Lumen]

In a move that will shock no-one, the attempted defence of the 15 week abortion ban in MS also includes attempts to invalidate Lawrence v. Texas and Obergefell v. Hodges.

I don’t see the court doing that. It would be so completely out of step with public opinion thr court would lose all legitimacy.

[The Alma Mater]

Who is talking about rape ? I just note that your posts are entirely focussed on punishing and insulting women and that you seem completely uninterested in actually preventing abortions.

Like 99% of pro-lifers.

This is due to the fact that most pro-lifers embrace Ayn Rand without much thought that such notions permit what they are against. The Left also is guilty of condemning poor children to death while claiming that a nation can have universal everything except prenatal and childcare.

I do not believe that I have ever seen a pro-choicer in this long, long, long existing topic that did not plead for universal prenatal and childcare.
Heck, in this particular incarnation it has already been asked for dozens of times.

[Ifreann]

It cannot be murder if a fetus is not a person. Why does a fetus get more rights than any person?

Innocence is not a argument in the case of rape or incest as something that is not sentient cannot have it.

A fetus is a human being scientifically, distinct from both parents, while personhood is historically sketchy. Black slaves were considered three-fifths of a person in the 19th century

The three-fifths compromise wasn't an assessment of the personhood of slaves. It was just about calculating the amount of representation states got in Congress.

and Slavs were considered subhumans by the Nazis. It is the termination of a life, that is something I believe that we can all agree on, and something done mostly for economic reasons. There is a disconnect on this issue with the Left, as they seem to believe in pie in the sky welfare programs while clutching their wallets at the notion of supporting children with orphanages/healthcare/aid for nursing mothers/ect.

I see people defending the lives of rapists, who have violated the autonomy of a human being, than say a fetus who is of the mother's blood. Why does the former have a right to their lives after committing a heinous act while the other who had no say in how they were conceived should be dispatched forthwith? Society should show compassion on the latter and the mother who is a victim, the rapist ought to be strung up if he is clearly guilty.

The personhood of the unborn is irrelevant. No person has the right to inhabit another's body without permission.

[Spirit of Hope]

It cannot be murder if a fetus is not a person. Why does a fetus get more rights than any person?

Innocence is not a argument in the case of rape or incest as something that is not sentient cannot have it.

A fetus is a human being scientifically, distinct from both parents, while personhood is historically sketchy. Black slaves were considered three-fifths of a person in the 19th century and Slavs were considered subhumans by the Nazis. It is the termination of a life, that is something I believe that we can all agree on, and something done mostly for economic reasons. There is a disconnect on this issue with the Left, as they seem to believe in pie in the sky welfare programs while clutching their wallets at the notion of supporting children with orphanages/healthcare/aid for nursing mothers/ect.

I see people defending the lives of rapists, who have violated the autonomy of a human being, than say a fetus who is of the mother's blood. Why does the former have a right to their lives after committing a heinous act while the other who had no say in how they were conceived should be dispatched forthwith? Society should show compassion on the latter and the mother who is a victim, the rapist ought to be strung up if he is clearly guilty.

Scientists generally don't define "human being."

Now how are we defining a fetus as an individual person? I certainly don't think abortion is automatically the termination of a life. Before the third trimester a fetus would be considered braindead, without the ability to viably develop or grow.

As to your dig at welfare, it isn't the left I see arguing against healthcare, universal preschool, and other programs that would support mother's.

For your weird comparison of rapists to fetuses, if the mother doesn't want to carry the fetus I see no reason to force her to.

As to the death penalty, I'm mostly against it for practical reasons. Largely that the US justice system sucks.

[Royal Frankia]

This is due to the fact that most pro-lifers embrace Ayn Rand without much thought that such notions permit what they are against. The Left also is guilty of condemning poor children to death while claiming that a nation can have universal everything except prenatal and childcare.

I do not believe that I have ever seen a pro-choicer in this long, long, long existing topic that did not plead for universal prenatal and childcare.
Heck, in this particular incarnation it has already been asked for dozens of times.

Are you from the US? This could be brought on by how politics differ across the Atlantic, because I've never heard a leftist say that they are for orphanages/caring for those children born who would have been aborted with government programs/higher taxes on the wealthy.

[Page]

Comparing the denial of personhood of minorities by racist/fascist regimes and the denial of personhood of fetuses is nonsensical. Every race feels and experiences things. People with disabilities feel and experience things. But fetuses don't, at least not until late in pregnancy. It is absurd to confer personhood upon an entity that utterly lacks subjective experience, especially since animals that do have subjective experience are denied personhood.

[Royal Frankia]

A fetus is a human being scientifically, distinct from both parents, while personhood is historically sketchy. Black slaves were considered three-fifths of a person in the 19th century and Slavs were considered subhumans by the Nazis. It is the termination of a life, that is something I believe that we can all agree on, and something done mostly for economic reasons. There is a disconnect on this issue with the Left, as they seem to believe in pie in the sky welfare programs while clutching their wallets at the notion of supporting children with orphanages/healthcare/aid for nursing mothers/ect.

I see people defending the lives of rapists, who have violated the autonomy of a human being, than say a fetus who is of the mother's blood. Why does the former have a right to their lives after committing a heinous act while the other who had no say in how they were conceived should be dispatched forthwith? Society should show compassion on the latter and the mother who is a victim, the rapist ought to be strung up if he is clearly guilty.

Scientists generally don't define "human being."

Now how are we defining a fetus as an individual person? I certainly don't think abortion is automatically the termination of a life. Before the third trimester a fetus would be considered braindead, without the ability to viably develop or grow.

As to your dig at welfare, it isn't the left I see arguing against healthcare, universal preschool, and other programs that would support mother's.

For your weird comparison of rapists to fetuses, if the mother doesn't want to carry the fetus I see no reason to force her to.

As to the death penalty, I'm mostly against it for practical reasons. Largely that the US justice system sucks.

This is choosing who lives and who dies based on opinion, not fact. The fetus is developing, there is no need to dispatch it anymore than a toddler who is born sickly/will be a burden on society. You already have an issue with the equivalent of eugenics in the womb, with those individuals with Down's being aborted when there is no issue with the pregnancy when that individual would be a burden on the family/state.

The Left in the US supports abortion on demand, which is promoting late stage capitalism at the expense of the sons and daughters of the poor. Whenever I've brought up this issue they say that the state cannot afford care, education, or assistance for those who be born that would have been aborted. They seem to recommend a solution that cannot be reversed rather than compassion, the same with the Right though they do not err when it comes to the gravity of the situation.

Abortion on demand has to be made unthinkable if it is to be prohibited, in my opinion. A woman, especially while pregnant, has a right to medical care and any operation that she requires even if it comes at the expense of society/luxuries for those with ill-gotten gains.

[Page]

A fetus is a human being scientifically. So is a corpse.

[Godular]

It cannot be murder if a fetus is not a person. Why does a fetus get more rights than any person?

Innocence is not a argument in the case of rape or incest as something that is not sentient cannot have it.

A fetus is a human being scientifically, distinct from both parents, while personhood is historically sketchy. Black slaves were considered three-fifths of a person in the 19th century and Slavs were considered subhumans by the Nazis. It is the termination of a life, that is something I believe that we can all agree on, and something done mostly for economic reasons. There is a disconnect on this issue with the Left, as they seem to believe in pie in the sky welfare programs while clutching their wallets at the notion of supporting children with orphanages/healthcare/aid for nursing mothers/ect.

Really? This is news to me.

In my experience it is the right that experiences the disconnect between preventing the woman from aborting an unwanted pregnancy and then sending said new mother and child both up shit creek because 'to hell with welfare'.

I see people defending the lives of rapists, who have violated the autonomy of a human being, than say a fetus who is of the mother's blood. Why does the former have a right to their lives after committing a heinous act while the other who had no say in how they were conceived should be dispatched forthwith? Society should show compassion on the latter and the mother who is a victim, the rapist ought to be strung up if he is clearly guilty.

The only reason why rape is brought up on the pro-choice side is to point out the inconsistency in the pro-life use of it as an attempt at compromise.