[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[The New California Republic]

New Mexico repeals 1969 abortion ban

About time.

[Giovenith]

Yes under the severe condition that the kid will be living in utter agony his whole life because of some disease or disability that makes it no worse than being in hell, or under the severe circumstance you were raped and you did not want his kid in this world. Even though you can say the kid is innocent that's literally one of the only plausible reasons, hence the word severe.

Otherwise no. Your choice, your responsibility. If you want to put the baby up for adoption, sure. In the worst case an actual human being will want to take care of the child. Sometimes circumstances don't allow for it, but you put a child on this planet knowing your financial status and couldn't afford it so that's too bad.

In the most simple of words, even if you go with legality reasons. The government lets you kill unborn fetuses but they won't kill deathrow inmates for decades. They don't kill murderers, or rapists, they don't kill pedophiles. Prison is hardly a punishment when they still get 3 meals a day, a roof over their head, a bed, commissary, they can take classes and have a "job", some have TV's and workout areas, they hang out with other people. A downside is that they spend it locked in one place, but lets be real the law is full of shit.

And, if abortion isn’t murder, how come someone gets 2 life sentences for killing a pregnant woman?

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[Zul-ar]

Your choice, your responsibility.

Making a choice do have sex =/= consenting to having a child. Accidents happen, carelessness happens, poor education happens

If you want to put the baby up for adoption, sure.In the worst case an actual human being will want to take care of the child.

Let's not be nasty here. And putting the child up for adoption doesn't change the fact you would be forced to carry it for nine months.

Sometimes circumstances don't allow for it, but you put a child on this planet knowing your financial status and couldn't afford it so that's too bad.

They didn't want a child on this planet, they wanted an abortion. Again, accidents happen. They might not've intended pregnancy. And wdym by "too bad?" "Too bad" means a child will suffer through being raised by an unwilling parent. Unwanted and unloved. Or, the child will be dumped into the shitfest that is the foster system. That's terrible.

The government lets you kill unborn fetuses but they won't kill deathrow inmates for decades. They don't kill murderers, or rapists, they don't kill pedophiles.

That's because the death penalty is a lot of risk and little reward. You spend a ridiculous amount of money, risk killing an innocent person, have to put up with human right's advocates, all for a justice boner.

Prison is hardly a punishment when they still get 3 meals a day, a roof over their head, a bed, commissary, they can take classes and have a "job", some have TV's and workout areas, they hang out with other people. A downside is that they spend it locked in one place, but lets be real the law is full of shit.

Prison is a dangerous place, and ex-cons lose their right to vote, and permanently have that mark on their lives forever. And a roof over your head, food to eat, contact with other humans and exercise are all basic, humane things to provide. Can you elaborate why you think the law is "full of shit?"

And, if abortion isn’t murder, how come someone gets 2 life sentences for killing a pregnant woman?

Abortion is killing, but not murder (as murder is a title given to illegal killing), and the fetus is a living human being. You can both believe the fetus is alive and support abortion being legal. The simple reason is that banning abortion will cause more deaths, not reduce them.

Thus, for the sake of preservation of life, abortion should be legal and we should take other actions to lower the amount of abortions. (I.e., comprehensive sex education, easy access to contraceptives.) BTW, the "2 life sentences argument" will never work with a pro-choice person. They will either respond consistently and say that someone who kills a pregnant woman should receive one life sentence, or they will be like me and agree that the fetus is alive.

[Katganistan]

Heartbeat is focusing on something that is utterly inconsequential and meaningless, some bullshit they have chosen because they know that it is so early in the pregnancy that it acts as a de facto ban.

Good. Abortion should be banned.

Don't like it? Don't have one. Simple.

[Kowani]

Good. Abortion should be banned.

Don't like it? Don't have one. Simple.

To be fair
For the people who believe it to be murder (or equivalent), “don’t have one” is not an argument

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Don't like it? Don't have one. Simple.

To be fair
For the people who believe it to be murder (or equivalent), “don’t have one” is not an argument

The problem being on that front if their position is based on religion, then much though I hate to use GMS’ argumentation: ‘That’s their opinion’

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

To be fair
For the people who believe it to be murder (or equivalent), “don’t have one” is not an argument

The problem being on that front if their position is based on religion, then much though I hate to use GMS’ argumentation: ‘That’s their opinion’

Yeah. "Faith" being pretty much the same thing as "willful belief in hearsay". Actually, does that even qualify as an opinion? On any other subject they would tolerate doubt of an opinion, or have self-doubt.

I really have no idea what I'm talking about. Too much sleep, not enough tea.

[The Alma Mater]

Don't like it? Don't have one. Simple.

To be fair
For the people who believe it to be murder (or equivalent), “don’t have one” is not an argument

And as soon as they are consistent with that opinion and offer the use of their body to preserve the lives of others I will listen to them with interest.

[Kowani]

SCOTUS bans transport of abortion pills by mail

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

SCOTUS bans transport of abortion pills by mail

Oh fuck.

[The New California Republic]

SCOTUS bans transport of abortion pills by mail

What a crock of shit.

[San Lumen]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/a ... strictions

Judge William Campbell, a Trump appointee, of the Middle District of Tennessee, issued a preliminary injunction on a law that would have required doctors performing drug-induced abortions to inform patients that the procedure could be reversed, and banned the procedure once a fetal heartbeat is detected, which could occur six weeks into a pregnancy before a mother even knows they are with child.

[Thepeopl]

Yes under the severe condition that the kid will be living in utter agony his whole life because of some disease or disability that makes it no worse than being in hell, -snip-

Good! You agree abortions are necessary.

https://healthland.time.com/2013/04/11/ ... rsonality/

https://www.inovanewsroom.org/expert-co ... your-kids/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... offspring/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5765853/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 225602.htm

So, not only does Abortion prevent suffering in the persons who have the abortion, but it also ensures that their offspring and those offspring will not unduly suffer.

Having consensual sex is good for you physical and mental wellbeing. It lowers blood pressure, it lowers stress. Unwanted/ unplanned pregnancy can cause high levels of stress hormones and have an adverse effect on the development of the fetus. Not to mention all abuse/ mistreatment/ hunger after birth.

Even if you really want children, are financially healthy and get pregnant; it still can be a stressful situation. And you will make mistakes with your children. You'll scar them for life, even if they don't know it or have forgiven you.

[Katganistan]

Don't like it? Don't have one. Simple.

To be fair
For the people who believe it to be murder (or equivalent), “don’t have one” is not an argument

It is not murder, as has been explained time and again. For it to be murder, it must be illegal. It is not, in many places.

For those who claim it is because of their religion, specifically Christians, there are tons of examples in the bible where not only is killing infants and the unborn not seen as a crime, but it is encouraged and prescribed.

[Katganistan]

SCOTUS bans transport of abortion pills by mail

What a crock of shit.

When the fuck did they become medical experts? Now they are interfering in a doctor's ability to prescribe and provide medical care.

[The Alma Mater]

What a crock of shit.

When the fuck did they become medical experts? Now they are interfering in a doctor's ability to prescribe and provide medical care.

Why do they have a say at all in how medicine is sent from A to B ? What is the federal basis ?
Genuine question.

[Punished UMN]

When the fuck did they become medical experts? Now they are interfering in a doctor's ability to prescribe and provide medical care.

Why do they have a say at all in how medicine is sent from A to B ? What is the federal basis ?
Genuine question.

Probably the commerce clause.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Why do they have a say at all in how medicine is sent from A to B ? What is the federal basis ?
Genuine question.

Probably the commerce clause.

This^

FDR had the commerce clause bastardized to hell and back to give the Federal government authority over almost everything that happens in the country. To veer off abortion for a moment for a good example this is the reason why Montana's firearms freedom law was struck down. The tl;dr is Montana passed a law saying there were effectively no gun laws in the state as long as the gun was made in Montana, using Montanan resources and never left the state. Somehow though despite this being a purely intrastate matter the Fed somehow has power over it because of how bastardized the commerce clause has become.

[Kowani]

[quote="Washington Resistance Army";p="38397247"]
This^

FDR had the commerce clause bastardized to hell and back to give the Federal government authority over almost everything that happens in the country. To veer off abortion for a moment for a good example this is the reason why Montana's firearms freedom law was struck down. The tl;dr is Montana passed a law saying there were effectively no gun laws in the state as long as the gun was made in Montana, using Montanan resources and never left the state. Somehow though despite this being a purely intrastate matter the Fed somehow has power over it because of how bastardized the commerce clause has become. [/quote]
Same reasoning as [i]US v López[/i], I take it?

[Fauzjhia]

Yes under the severe condition that the kid will be living in utter agony his whole life because of some disease or disability that makes it no worse than being in hell, -snip-

Good! You agree abortions are necessary. ......

So, not only does Abortion prevent suffering in the persons who have the abortion, but it also ensures that their offspring and those offspring will not unduly suffer.

Having consensual sex is good for you physical and mental wellbeing. It lowers blood pressure, it lowers stress. Unwanted/ unplanned pregnancy can cause high levels of stress hormones and have an adverse effect on the development of the fetus. Not to mention all abuse/ mistreatment/ hunger after birth.

Even if you really want children, are financially healthy and get pregnant; it still can be a stressful situation. And you will make mistakes with your children. You'll scar them for life, even if they don't know it or have forgiven you.

You know that for Pro-life people. your argument will sound like
not having a life is better then having a bad life.

its really a bad argument.

please remain on, Women can do what they want with their body.

SCOTUS bans transport of abortion pills by mail

Really ? Well. we that Justice really care about the safety of American women (sarcasm)

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Good! You agree abortions are necessary. ......

So, not only does Abortion prevent suffering in the persons who have the abortion, but it also ensures that their offspring and those offspring will not unduly suffer.

Having consensual sex is good for you physical and mental wellbeing. It lowers blood pressure, it lowers stress. Unwanted/ unplanned pregnancy can cause high levels of stress hormones and have an adverse effect on the development of the fetus. Not to mention all abuse/ mistreatment/ hunger after birth.

Even if you really want children, are financially healthy and get pregnant; it still can be a stressful situation. And you will make mistakes with your children. You'll scar them for life, even if they don't know it or have forgiven you.

You know that for Pro-life people. your argument will sound like
not having a life is better then having a bad life.

its really a bad argument.

Only if you believe in the Soul existing before individual human life.

The number of human lives that could have existed but didn't ... due to sex not happening, failure to implant, miscarriage is greater than the number of people alive. Do you think there are billions of Souls somewhere waiting?

Or if you don't, what is a "life that doesn't exist?" Having fewer lives but more of them good, seems desirable to me.

[The Alma Mater]

Good! You agree abortions are necessary. ......

So, not only does Abortion prevent suffering in the persons who have the abortion, but it also ensures that their offspring and those offspring will not unduly suffer.

Having consensual sex is good for you physical and mental wellbeing. It lowers blood pressure, it lowers stress. Unwanted/ unplanned pregnancy can cause high levels of stress hormones and have an adverse effect on the development of the fetus. Not to mention all abuse/ mistreatment/ hunger after birth.

Even if you really want children, are financially healthy and get pregnant; it still can be a stressful situation. And you will make mistakes with your children. You'll scar them for life, even if they don't know it or have forgiven you.

You know that for Pro-life people. your argument will sound like
not having a life is better then having a bad life.

its really a bad argument.

"Being kept alive for a week in intense pain with no hope of survival is better than being mercy killed" is not such a great argument either.

[Thepeopl]

Good! You agree abortions are necessary. ......

So, not only does Abortion prevent suffering in the persons who have the abortion, but it also ensures that their offspring and those offspring will not unduly suffer.

Having consensual sex is good for you physical and mental wellbeing. It lowers blood pressure, it lowers stress. Unwanted/ unplanned pregnancy can cause high levels of stress hormones and have an adverse effect on the development of the fetus. Not to mention all abuse/ mistreatment/ hunger after birth.

Even if you really want children, are financially healthy and get pregnant; it still can be a stressful situation. And you will make mistakes with your children. You'll scar them for life, even if they don't know it or have forgiven you.

You know that for Pro-life people. your argument will sound like
not having a life is better then having a bad life.

its really a bad argument.

Well as both The Alma Mater and A-series-of- tubes already stated: I belief in quality not quantity.

More unwanted pregnancies and children lead to more poverty, more misery, more abuse.

Just like building more roads leads to increased traffic thus perpetuating the call for more roads.

https://urbandemographics.blogspot.com/ ... e.html?m=1

It was already know in 1960...

[Page]

Good! You agree abortions are necessary. ......

So, not only does Abortion prevent suffering in the persons who have the abortion, but it also ensures that their offspring and those offspring will not unduly suffer.

Having consensual sex is good for you physical and mental wellbeing. It lowers blood pressure, it lowers stress. Unwanted/ unplanned pregnancy can cause high levels of stress hormones and have an adverse effect on the development of the fetus. Not to mention all abuse/ mistreatment/ hunger after birth.

Even if you really want children, are financially healthy and get pregnant; it still can be a stressful situation. And you will make mistakes with your children. You'll scar them for life, even if they don't know it or have forgiven you.

You know that for Pro-life people. your argument will sound like
not having a life is better then having a bad life.

its really a bad argument.

please remain on, Women can do what they want with their body.

SCOTUS bans transport of abortion pills by mail

Really ? Well. we that Justice really care about the safety of American women (sarcasm)

"Not having a life is better than having a bad life" is literally, mathematically true.

0 > -1

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

You know that for Pro-life people. your argument will sound like
not having a life is better then having a bad life.

its really a bad argument.

please remain on, Women can do what they want with their body.





Really ? Well. we that Justice really care about the safety of American women (sarcasm)

"Not having a life is better than having a bad life" is literally, mathematically true.

0 > -1

I don't like that much. A life so bad it's negative overall, is not really compatible with the positive value people put on their own life.

If people hated their own life that much, they'd just leave right?

What we need here is a relative measure of life quality: some lives are better than others (for the person living them), and our policy should minimimize the number of low-quality lives while maximizing the number of high-quality lives.

Actually, maybe what we're trying to do is make all lives roughly as good (but with a higher median than currently). Acknowledging that half of the lives will still be below median, and half above, we want a small standard deviation around that.