[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Suriyanakhon]

And Arizona lawmakers have introduced a bill that would count abortion as a homicide, meaning both doctors and women could get the death penalty.

https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/ ... B2650P.pdf

So pro-life.

Are these a bunch of new and upcoming Republican representatives who think they're finally going to be the ones who overturn Roe v. Wade?

And Arizona lawmakers have introduced a bill that would count abortion as a homicide, meaning both doctors and women could get the death penalty.

https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/ ... B2650P.pdf

So pro-life.

...From a quick look, miscarriage would count as homicide as would abortion due to life of the mother.

The prisons would be filled to the brim.

“What are you in here for?”
“My body didn't implant the fertilized egg in the uterine wall properly.”

[Kowani]

And Arizona lawmakers have introduced a bill that would count abortion as a homicide, meaning both doctors and women could get the death penalty.

https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/ ... B2650P.pdf

So pro-life.

Are these a bunch of new and upcoming Republican representatives who think they're finally going to be the ones who overturn Roe v. Wade?[quote]
Yes
Yes they do.

[Molither]

I don't understand the American religious divide on abortion.


Here in New Zealand although Christians only make up like 40% of our population Protestants tend to be far more Pro Choice than Catholics.

[Godular]

I don't understand the American religious divide on abortion.


Here in New Zealand although Christians only make up like 40% of our population Protestants tend to be far more Pro Choice than Catholics.

American Religion is in 'Try-Hard' mode by default. I mean, think about the first settlers in the area... they left the Calvinists because they thought they were too EASYGOING (or the Calvinists thought they were major buzzkills, either way it doesn't paint a good picture).

[Atheris]

I don't understand the American religious divide on abortion.


Here in New Zealand although Christians only make up like 40% of our population Protestants tend to be far more Pro Choice than Catholics.

Because the first American settlers thought the Calvinists were too liberal.

[Molither]

I don't understand the American religious divide on abortion.


Here in New Zealand although Christians only make up like 40% of our population Protestants tend to be far more Pro Choice than Catholics.

American Religion is in 'Try-Hard' mode by default. I mean, think about the first settlers in the area... they left the Calvinists because they thought they were too EASYGOING (or the Calvinists thought they were major buzzkills, either way it doesn't paint a good picture).

I don't understand the American religious divide on abortion.


Here in New Zealand although Christians only make up like 40% of our population Protestants tend to be far more Pro Choice than Catholics.

Because the first American settlers thought the Calvinists were too liberal.

That would explain why American society seems to be quite religious.


I was shocked to see so many references to God during the inauguration of Joe Biden.

In New Zealand a major politician did a photo op praying in a Church and they lost votes because of it

[The Spook Who Sat By The Door]

I can't speak on a religious level, but on a purely practical level, if my ethnic group stopped having abortions today, in eighteen years and going forward, we would have a massively greater amount of registered voters to advance our own political goals. It would probably upset our so-called allies, but can you really imagine "friends" (who really haven't done much for you in many years anyway) getting upset because you voluntarily stopped getting abortions?

[Atheris]

And Arizona lawmakers have introduced a bill that would count abortion as a homicide, meaning both doctors and women could get the death penalty.

https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/ ... B2650P.pdf

So pro-life.

This is not gonna pass and will die like the Texas bill

Hopefully.

[Agarntrop]

This is not gonna pass and will die like the Texas bill

Hopefully.

It's really extreme and would not pass committee in a purple leaning on blue state like Arizona

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Hopefully.

It's really extreme and would not pass committee in a purple leaning on blue state like Arizona

Purple-leaning-blue it might be on the national level, but in terms of state government it's as red as the neck on the moron what drafted that steaming pile.

[Punished UMN]

I don't understand the American religious divide on abortion.


Here in New Zealand although Christians only make up like 40% of our population Protestants tend to be far more Pro Choice than Catholics.

Because the first American settlers thought the Calvinists were too liberal.

Calvinism was pretty much the origin of theological liberalism.

[Agarntrop]

It's really extreme and would not pass committee in a purple leaning on blue state like Arizona

Purple-leaning-blue it might be on the national level, but in terms of state government it's as red as the neck on the moron what drafted that steaming pile.

The GOP majority there is tiny and crumbling in both houses of the legislature.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

It's really extreme and would not pass committee in a purple leaning on blue state like Arizona

Purple-leaning-blue it might be on the national level, but in terms of state government it's as red as the neck on the moron what drafted that steaming pile.

Is it that red? Wikipedia says a majority of 2 in the Senate but only 1 in the House?

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

Purple-leaning-blue it might be on the national level, but in terms of state government it's as red as the neck on the moron what drafted that steaming pile.

Is it that red? Wikipedia says a majority of 2 in the Senate but only 1 in the House?

On the legislative level its purple leaning pink.

Hence why this bill will die.

[Kexholm Karelia]

The basis for that claim, iirc, is that plants react to stimuli which fetuses do as well because reacting to one's environment and stimuli is seen throughout all forms of life. They do not however "think" in the way humans let alone other animals do.

Did you all flunk out of biology or something?

Science was never my subject, so I default to the scientists' view in regards to scientific stuff.

Most of those guys seem to agree that fetuses aren't alive tho

Let’s see… here are the ten accepted characteristics of a living organism

1. Cells and DNA
Check

2. Metabolic Action
Check

3. Internal Environment Changes
Check

4. Living Organisms Grow
Check

5. The Art of Reproduction
Check, see earlier source showing identifiable ovaries and other sexual organs on fetuses

6. Ability to Adapt
Check

7. Ability to Interact
Check

8. The Process of Respiration
Check

9. Living Creatures Move
Check

10. Cell Mitosis
Check

[San Lumen]

Science was never my subject, so I default to the scientists' view in regards to scientific stuff.

Most of those guys seem to agree that fetuses aren't alive tho

Let’s see… here are the ten accepted characteristics of a living organism

1. Cells and DNA
Check

2. Metabolic Action
Check

3. Internal Environment Changes
Check

4. Living Organisms Grow
Check

5. The Art of Reproduction
Check, see earlier source showing identifiable ovaries and other sexual organs on fetuses

6. Ability to Adapt
Check

7. Ability to Interact
Check

8. The Process of Respiration
Check

9. Living Creatures Move
Check

10. Cell Mitosis
Check

and even if all that is true for a fetus where do you get the right to make medical decisions for someone else?

There was a story a few years ago regarding a 12 year old girl in Paraguay who was raped by her father and because abortion is totally illegal there was forced to give birth and later developed some complications from it but's perfectly acceptable to you?

[The New California Republic]

-snip-

Just to say that it's not really a common argument here for folk to say that fetuses are not alive. There is near universal acceptance amongst pro-choice people here that fetuses are alive, but it's immaterial to the arguments they use.

[Senkaku]

Science was never my subject, so I default to the scientists' view in regards to scientific stuff.

Most of those guys seem to agree that fetuses aren't alive tho

Let’s see… here are the ten accepted characteristics of a living organism

1. Cells and DNA
Check

2. Metabolic Action
Check

3. Internal Environment Changes
Check

4. Living Organisms Grow
Check

5. The Art of Reproduction
Check, see earlier source showing identifiable ovaries and other sexual organs on fetuses

6. Ability to Adapt
Check

7. Ability to Interact
Check

8. The Process of Respiration
Check

9. Living Creatures Move
Check

10. Cell Mitosis
Check

I will accept that this argument is in good faith after I see you bomb some factory farms lol

[Necroghastia]

Science was never my subject, so I default to the scientists' view in regards to scientific stuff.

Most of those guys seem to agree that fetuses aren't alive tho

Let’s see… here are the ten accepted characteristics of a living organism

1. Cells and DNA
Check

2. Metabolic Action
Check

3. Internal Environment Changes
Check

4. Living Organisms Grow
Check

5. The Art of Reproduction
Check, see earlier source showing identifiable ovaries and other sexual organs on fetuses

6. Ability to Adapt
Check

7. Ability to Interact
Check

8. The Process of Respiration
Check

9. Living Creatures Move
Check

10. Cell Mitosis
Check

Cool, now explain to the class why that matters at all with regards to the topic.

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

We kill and eat plants and animals all the time... many of which are far more developed and sentient than early fetuses.

Abortion is not murder. It isn't a good thing, but it's not murder.

[Kexholm Karelia]

We kill and eat plants and animals all the time... many of which are far more developed and sentient than early fetuses.

Abortion is not murder. It isn't a good thing, but it's not murder.

I believe humans have a moral duty not to kill other humans without good reason (war, self defense, etc.), but equating that to animals isn’t the same because animals are part of the food chain as a human’s diet

[Necroghastia]

We kill and eat plants and animals all the time... many of which are far more developed and sentient than early fetuses.

Abortion is not murder. It isn't a good thing, but it's not murder.

I believe humans have a moral duty not to kill other humans without good reason (war, self defense, etc.), but equating that to animals isn’t the same because animals are part of the food chain as a human’s diet

swaggie so what's the problem lol

[Kexholm Karelia]

I believe humans have a moral duty not to kill other humans without good reason (war, self defense, etc.), but equating that to animals isn’t the same because animals are part of the food chain as a human’s diet

swaggie so what's the problem lol

Killing a fetus isn’t self defense because a fetus isn’t attacking anyone, it’s the purest form of innocence there is

[The New California Republic]

We kill and eat plants and animals all the time... many of which are far more developed and sentient than early fetuses.

Abortion is not murder. It isn't a good thing, but it's not murder.

I believe humans have a moral duty not to kill other humans without good reason (war, self defense, etc.), but equating that to animals isn’t the same because animals are part of the food chain as a human’s diet

To stop infringement on one's bodily sovereignty when there is no alternative to that which results in the death of the other is a darn good reason.

[Celritannia]

swaggie so what's the problem lol

Killing a fetus isn’t self defense because a fetus isn’t attacking anyone, it’s the purest form of innocence there is

So the mother's life is no longer a concern.
Nice of you to think a born human being is second class to something growing inside her.