An all-female cabinet?

[Jajarjava]

Some preliminary results are in:

Passable to Good:
Queen Merneith of Egypt
Queen Elizabeth I of England
Mrs. Bandarserinaike
Those two Danish prime-ministers

Bad to Disaster:
Semiramis of Babylon
Queen Christina of Sweden
Margaret Thatcher
Indira Ghandi
Hillary Clinton
Mrs. Peron (both of them)


So it's almost as if being female doesn't matter, but character does...

You forgot the current NZ PM, and the Icelandic PM, both of whom are pretty good.

Absolutely agree on NZ!
And for Iceland, we can also include Johanna Sigurdardottir, its first female prime-minister.

(I said "some" preliminary results - not all)

To balance it out: Megawati Sukarnoputri on the bad side. I forgot her too.
And maybe add that homophobic backstabber Julia Gillard as well?

[West Leas Oros 2]

I disagree. If you are saying "men need to be oppressed" to piss people off, that's trolling.

have you considered that maybe i'm saying that because i genuinely believe it's the best solution; perhaps as a woman who's had to deal with disgusting behavior from males basically since hitting puberty and who's seen what they've done to other women, my opinion of them has rather soured. just a thought.

Gee, it’s almost like I’ve had to put up with bullshit from identity politics peddlers and my opinion of them has soured. But somehow I’m a stupid idiot and you’re an enlightened genius. You’re being a vengeful hypocrite. Why should my experiences be discarded, while you can slander half the population to your hearts content?

[Neu Heidelberg]

Gee, it’s almost like I’ve had to put up with bullshit from identity politics peddlers and my opinion of them has soured. But somehow I’m a stupid idiot and you’re an enlightened genius. You’re a vengeful hypocrite.

I read "Castroist", "Catholic", "sex-negative" and a few other authoritarian epithets in her sig. Vengeful hypocrisy is par for the course with those ideologies. They believe that Holy books and reality and humanity should just adjust themselves to suit their worldviews. And when Holy books and reality and humanity don't, they start burning books and people and anything else they perceive as standing in their way.

The poster, meanwhile, maybe has a few issues of a traumatic kind. So while I abhor the "demons" that beset her (Castroism, Catholicism, sex-negativism e tutti quanti), I hope that she will get - and accept - the help she needs to forgive both the world and herself.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I disagree. If you are saying "men need to be oppressed" to piss people off, that's trolling.

I don't think their attempting to piss people off, I think they're genuinely forwarding this nonsense ideology. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen such behavior and rhetoric.

That’s not much better. Pretty sure if someone went around advocating for the suppression of say, black people, that would be a big nope.

[Auzkhia]

I'd rather go for a female and non-binary balance.

[Neu Heidelberg]

I don't think their attempting to piss people off, I think they're genuinely forwarding this nonsense ideology. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen such behavior and rhetoric.

That’s not much better. Pretty sure if someone went around advocating for the suppression of say, black people, that would be a big nope.

Oh yes: men are the last group one can be openly and blatantly hostile to. Other groups: you'd have to be more subtle.

(That includes the gay men, by the way: they still get a lot of extra prejudice because they are men WHO LIKE MEN. It's like a double crime for some extremist man-haters.)

[West Leas Oros 2]

Gee, it’s almost like I’ve had to put up with bullshit from identity politics peddlers and my opinion of them has soured. But somehow I’m a stupid idiot and you’re an enlightened genius. You’re a vengeful hypocrite.

I read "Castroist", "Catholic", "sex-negative" and a few other authoritarian epithets in her sig. Vengeful hypocrisy is par for the course with those ideologies. They believe that Holy books and reality and humanity should just adjust themselves to suit their worldviews. And when Holy books and reality and humanity don't, they start burning books and people and anything else they perceive as standing in their way.

The poster, meanwhile, maybe has a few issues of a traumatic kind. So while I abhor the "demons" that beset her (Castroism, Catholicism, sex-negativism e tutti quanti), I hope that she will get - and accept - the help she needs to forgive both the world and herself.

As someone who was a former Black Supremacist and misandrist, I legitimately hurt inside when I see ideological poison and hatred take root in good people’s minds. I’ve been there, and it’s not an easy pit to escape from, but it is worth it. You will see that there is much good you’ve blinded yourself to, because when toxicity and hateful ideology takes over, you find yourself alone in a world of hostility. I see no greater evil in humanity than he that benefits from violence, division, hatred, and suppression. If it is your ultimate goal to ruin an entire people, either you’ve fallen into the clutches of evil, or you are the clutches. I’ve clawed my way out. I hope that one day, everyone can.

[Celritannia]

You forgot the current NZ PM, and the Icelandic PM, both of whom are pretty good.

Absolutely agree on NZ!
And for Iceland, we can also include Johanna Sigurdardottir, its first female prime-minister.

(I said "some" preliminary results - not all)

To balance it out: Megawati Sukarnoputri on the bad side. I forgot her too.
And maybe add that homophobic backstabber Julia Gillard as well?

Along with Priti Patel for another bad one.

[West Leas Oros 2]

That’s not much better. Pretty sure if someone went around advocating for the suppression of say, black people, that would be a big nope.

Oh yes: men are the last group one can be openly and blatantly hostile to. Other groups: you'd have to be more subtle.

(That includes the gay men, by the way: they still get a lot of extra prejudice because they are men WHO LIKE MEN. It's like a double crime for some extremist man-haters.)

I’m just arguing that none of that “group in power” shit flies here on NS. The mods thankfully have no tolerance for hate, be it antisemitism, racism, homophobia, or any other group. Emphasis on any, for those who would assume that men are an acceptable target.

[Terra Potestatem]

My thoughts would depend on context. Are the women chosen thought to be the best in their field, and just happen to be women? I'd be alright with that. Are they chosen just for being women? That is by definition sexist, and many forget that can also be sexism, saying it benefits the women, and doesn't really hurt anyone. I'd say any decisions for jobs based on gender is an undesirable aspect of a candidate.

[Cop Met]

Cabinets should really be elected by the people, but I wouldn't be bothered if someone filled their cabinet with women exclusively. It's not like it's gonna be the start of some dictatorship of women.

Discriminating against people based on irrelevant and immutable characteristics while propping up others seems pretty dictatorial to me. Would it bother you if someone went out of their way to fill their cabinet with white people exclusively? If yes: why are you such a hypocrite?

[West Leas Oros 2]

Cabinets should really be elected by the people, but I wouldn't be bothered if someone filled their cabinet with women exclusively. It's not like it's gonna be the start of some dictatorship of women.

Discriminating against people based on irrelevant and immutable characteristics while propping up others seems pretty dictatorial to me. Would it bother you if someone went out of their way to fill their cabinet with white people exclusively? If yes: why are you such a hypocrite?

No, actually. I don’t give a flying fuck if the cabinet is exclusively one identity of any sort, and I’m pretty sure Cordel doesn’t either. You did see the part about supporting an elected cabinet, right?

[Cekoviu]

I don't have autism. Yes, I had problems assimilating into RWDT culture, but I'm not autistic.

she also called me an idiot because i did the unthinkable: have a political opinion different from hers while being the same gender, oh no!!!

i have literally no idea who you are tbqh, i have no recollection of doing that
i also searched through both of our post histories and found no mention of one another up to this point, were you maybe using a different account when this allegedly happened or did you confuse me with someone else or something

[Cekoviu]

have you considered that maybe i'm saying that because i genuinely believe it's the best solution; perhaps as a woman who's had to deal with disgusting behavior from males basically since hitting puberty and who's seen what they've done to other women, my opinion of them has rather soured. just a thought.

Gee, it’s almost like I’ve had to put up with bullshit from identity politics peddlers and my opinion of them has soured. But somehow I’m a stupid idiot and you’re an enlightened genius. You’re being a vengeful hypocrite. Why should my experiences be discarded, while you can slander half the population to your hearts content?

1. i don't think your experiences with "identity politics peddlers" are particularly informative because the group is extremely vaguely defined, whereas "men" has for the most part very clearly delineated boundaries
2. were this not true, i would still be hypocritical in your eyes because i find you very annoying and therefore probably apply much harsher standards to you than the general population

Gee, it’s almost like I’ve had to put up with bullshit from identity politics peddlers and my opinion of them has soured. But somehow I’m a stupid idiot and you’re an enlightened genius. You’re a vengeful hypocrite.

I read "Castroist", "Catholic", "sex-negative" and a few other authoritarian epithets in her sig. Vengeful hypocrisy is par for the course with those ideologies. They believe that Holy books and reality and humanity should just adjust themselves to suit their worldviews. And when Holy books and reality and humanity don't, they start burning books and people and anything else they perceive as standing in their way.

The poster, meanwhile, maybe has a few issues of a traumatic kind. So while I abhor the "demons" that beset her (Castroism, Catholicism, sex-negativism e tutti quanti), I hope that she will get - and accept - the help she needs to forgive both the world and herself.

lmao what
for one, i'm not a catholic, i'm an anglo-catholic (i.e. an episcopalian/anglican adhering more to the traditional roots of christianity than protestant reformations). secondly, sex-negative is not an "authoritarian epithet," although i do happen to be authoritarian. thirdly, none of those things are demons that need to be erased

As someone who was a former Black Supremacist and misandrist, I legitimately hurt inside when I see ideological poison and hatred take root in good people’s minds. I’ve been there, and it’s not an easy pit to escape from, but it is worth it. You will see that there is much good you’ve blinded yourself to, because when toxicity and hateful ideology takes over, you find yourself alone in a world of hostility. I see no greater evil in humanity than he that benefits from violence, division, hatred, and suppression. If it is your ultimate goal to ruin an entire people, either you’ve fallen into the clutches of evil, or you are the clutches. I’ve clawed my way out. I hope that one day, everyone can.

if you're implying i'm a good person who's had "ideological poison" take root in my mind, you are wrong on both counts

[Jajarjava]

i have literally no idea who you are tbqh, i have no recollection of doing that

Signs of an authoritarian:

1) wants to outlaw some or all of what you are
2) when called out, denies ever saying that
3) when quoted, denies even knowing you, so those words can't possibly be applicable to whoever you are
4) when still pressed, claims to have "no recollection at all"
5) expects to get away with it, because of some imagined victimhood.

You can pull up any issue + any authoritarian (from Stalin to George W.Bush and on to Priti Patel, probably) and you'll see it following this pattern.

[Cekoviu]

i have literally no idea who you are tbqh, i have no recollection of doing that

Signs of an authoritarian:

1) wants to outlaw some or all of what you are
2) when called out, denies ever saying that
3) when quoted, denies even knowing you, so those words can't possibly be applicable to whoever you are
4) when still pressed, claims to have "no recollection at all"
5) expects to get away with it, because of some imagined victimhood.

You can pull up any issue + any authoritarian (from Stalin to George W.Bush and on to Priti Patel, probably) and you'll see it following this pattern.

i don't even know who that user is so i can't even say whether i want to outlaw what they are, and like i put in my edit, i cannot find any sort of interaction between us that exists in the history of this forum so i legitimately have no idea what they are referring to (plus i would certainly remember calling someone an idiot since it would've definitely resulted in a ban or warn and those stick in my memory)

also i have repeatedly openly admitted to being an authoritarian so this isnt a gotcha or anything

[West Leas Oros 2]

Gee, it’s almost like I’ve had to put up with bullshit from identity politics peddlers and my opinion of them has soured. But somehow I’m a stupid idiot and you’re an enlightened genius. You’re being a vengeful hypocrite. Why should my experiences be discarded, while you can slander half the population to your hearts content?

1. i don't think your experiences with "identity politics peddlers" are particularly informative because the group is extremely vaguely defined, whereas "men" has for the most part very clearly delineated boundaries
2. were this not true, i would still be hypocritical in your eyes because i find you very annoying and therefore probably apply much harsher standards to you than the general population

I read "Castroist", "Catholic", "sex-negative" and a few other authoritarian epithets in her sig. Vengeful hypocrisy is par for the course with those ideologies. They believe that Holy books and reality and humanity should just adjust themselves to suit their worldviews. And when Holy books and reality and humanity don't, they start burning books and people and anything else they perceive as standing in their way.

The poster, meanwhile, maybe has a few issues of a traumatic kind. So while I abhor the "demons" that beset her (Castroism, Catholicism, sex-negativism e tutti quanti), I hope that she will get - and accept - the help she needs to forgive both the world and herself.

lmao what
for one, i'm not a catholic, i'm an anglo-catholic (i.e. an episcopalian/anglican adhering more to the traditional roots of christianity than protestant reformations). secondly, sex-negative is not an "authoritarian epithet," although i do happen to be authoritarian. thirdly, none of those things are demons that need to be erased

As someone who was a former Black Supremacist and misandrist, I legitimately hurt inside when I see ideological poison and hatred take root in good people’s minds. I’ve been there, and it’s not an easy pit to escape from, but it is worth it. You will see that there is much good you’ve blinded yourself to, because when toxicity and hateful ideology takes over, you find yourself alone in a world of hostility. I see no greater evil in humanity than he that benefits from violence, division, hatred, and suppression. If it is your ultimate goal to ruin an entire people, either you’ve fallen into the clutches of evil, or you are the clutches. I’ve clawed my way out. I hope that one day, everyone can.

if you're implying i'm a good person who's had "ideological poison" take root in my mind, you are wrong on both counts

1. Ah yes, the well known hive mind, men. I too, wake up every morning and telepathically link with the hive and ask, “how can I oppress women today?”.
2. Not the male population apparently. Apparently men being jerks is a good enough reason to call for their subjugation. But if you take issue with someone advocating subjugation of a group you’re a part of based on their past experiences with them, congratulations, you’re a hypocrite.
3. Regardless of whether you’re a good person, you still are ideologically poisoned. Nobody who isn’t ideologically poisoned would spew the hateful rhetoric you have with sincerity.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Signs of an authoritarian:

1) wants to outlaw some or all of what you are
2) when called out, denies ever saying that
3) when quoted, denies even knowing you, so those words can't possibly be applicable to whoever you are
4) when still pressed, claims to have "no recollection at all"
5) expects to get away with it, because of some imagined victimhood.

You can pull up any issue + any authoritarian (from Stalin to George W.Bush and on to Priti Patel, probably) and you'll see it following this pattern.

i don't even know who that user is so i can't even say whether i want to outlaw what they are, and like i put in my edit, i cannot find any sort of interaction between us that exists in the history of this forum so i legitimately have no idea what they are referring to (plus i would certainly remember calling someone an idiot since it would've definitely resulted in a ban or warn and those stick in my memory)

also i have repeatedly openly admitted to being an authoritarian so this isnt a gotcha or anything

Authoritarianism isn’t necessarily bad. Take Bolivar. On the other hand, advocating for the subjugation of an entire gender or race, certainly is.

[Cekoviu]

1. Ah yes, the well known hive mind, men. I too, wake up every morning and telepathically link with the hive and ask, “how can I oppress women today?”.
2. Not the male population apparently. Apparently men being jerks is a good enough reason to call for their subjugation. But if you take issue with someone advocating subjugation of a group you’re a part of based on their past experiences with them, congratulations, you’re a hypocrite.
3. Regardless of whether you’re a good person, you still are ideologically poisoned. Nobody who isn’t ideologically poisoned would spew the hateful rhetoric you have with sincerity.

1. yeah, given my observations i would not be surprised if that were the case
2. oh yes it's definitely just that men are jerks and not that i have an extensive array of negative experiences with men going beyond them being dicks, such as observing senseless public male-on-male violence, being the target of men's sexual harassment, watching my parents' marriage fall apart because of my father's sex addiction and his inability to communicate induced by deeply-rooted toxic masculinity, etc. but no yeah my reasoning is definitely that simplistic and reductive; i am a woman after all, just so irrational & quick to rush to conclusions! x

[West Leas Oros 2]

1. Ah yes, the well known hive mind, men. I too, wake up every morning and telepathically link with the hive and ask, “how can I oppress women today?”.
2. Not the male population apparently. Apparently men being jerks is a good enough reason to call for their subjugation. But if you take issue with someone advocating subjugation of a group you’re a part of based on their past experiences with them, congratulations, you’re a hypocrite.
3. Regardless of whether you’re a good person, you still are ideologically poisoned. Nobody who isn’t ideologically poisoned would spew the hateful rhetoric you have with sincerity.

1. yeah, given my observations i would not be surprised if that were the case
2. oh yes it's definitely just that men are jerks and not that i have an extensive array of negative experiences with men going beyond them being dicks, such as observing senseless public male-on-male violence, being the target of men's sexual harassment, watching my parents' marriage fall apart because of my father's sex addiction and his inability to communicate induced by deeply-rooted toxic masculinity, etc. but no yeah my reasoning is definitely that simplistic and reductive; i am a woman after all, just so irrational & quick to rush to conclusions! x

No, your reasoning is simple and reductive because you are making statements about all men based on the actions of some. I’ve witnessed plenty of heinous shit from black people, but I know that most of them are good people and that only some are bad. If I were to say that all black people were bad, that would be racist.

[Neu Heidelberg]

I read "Castroist", "Catholic", "sex-negative" and a few other authoritarian epithets in her sig. Vengeful hypocrisy is par for the course with those ideologies. They believe that Holy books and reality and humanity should just adjust themselves to suit their worldviews. And when Holy books and reality and humanity don't, they start burning books and people and anything else they perceive as standing in their way.

The poster, meanwhile, maybe has a few issues of a traumatic kind. So while I abhor the "demons" that beset her (Castroism, Catholicism, sex-negativism e tutti quanti), I hope that she will get - and accept - the help she needs to forgive both the world and herself.

lmao what
for one, i'm not a catholic, i'm an anglo-catholic (i.e. an episcopalian/anglican adhering more to the traditional roots of christianity than protestant reformations). secondly, sex-negative is not an "authoritarian epithet," although i do happen to be authoritarian. thirdly, none of those things are demons that need to be erased

I'm well aware of the differences and comparisons between Catholic and Anglican-Catholic. I would argue that, from a Calvinist-Lutheran perspective, the reformed churches are much closer to the traditional Christian roots than the deformities resulting from the cult of Saints, the ever-increasing isolation of the clergy, the Manichean dualism and so much else that has been codified by the various degrees of Catholicism.

But since those degrees are all authoritarian-leaning, I am not surprised to find you adhering to one.

Sex-negative is definitely an authoritarian epithet. It invariably comes with designs for proscribing public expression of affection, and more often than not maligns frank discussion of sexual minorities.
I agree that it shouldn't have to be that way, but "in theory" doesn't change reality.

As for your demons, I put some quotation marks around them. Not chic to pretend those weren't there.

if you're implying i'm a good person who's had "ideological poison" take root in my mind, you are wrong on both counts

So you identify as Christian. I agree that finding yourself a sinner (i.e. bad person) is a basic tenet of Christian beliefs. Even so, if that is what you believe, there shouldn't be so much pride in the way you seek to condemn others (especially men). "Judge not, lest thou be judged" and all that.

I'm not saying you have poison in your mind. But possibly either trauma or some other psychopathology, which expresses itself through the vicious extremism of your words.

Please find a way to think kinder of yourself - and of the world. Attempt to be more forgiving. It will heal your aching soul.

[Alcala-Cordel]

1. Ah yes, the well known hive mind, men. I too, wake up every morning and telepathically link with the hive and ask, “how can I oppress women today?”.
2. Not the male population apparently. Apparently men being jerks is a good enough reason to call for their subjugation. But if you take issue with someone advocating subjugation of a group you’re a part of based on their past experiences with them, congratulations, you’re a hypocrite.
3. Regardless of whether you’re a good person, you still are ideologically poisoned. Nobody who isn’t ideologically poisoned would spew the hateful rhetoric you have with sincerity.

1. yeah, given my observations i would not be surprised if that were the case
2. oh yes it's definitely just that men are jerks and not that i have an extensive array of negative experiences with men going beyond them being dicks, such as observing senseless public male-on-male violence, being the target of men's sexual harassment, watching my parents' marriage fall apart because of my father's sex addiction and his inability to communicate induced by deeply-rooted toxic masculinity, etc. but no yeah my reasoning is definitely that simplistic and reductive; i am a woman after all, just so irrational & quick to rush to conclusions! x

I don't agree with you, but it does seem like you've been through some serious shit. Calling sexual predators the scum of the earth is more than they deserve. Men aren't born sexual predators, but a number of us are corrupted the widespread societal norms that normalize predatory behavior and exploitation. It probable means nothing from a stranger on the internet, but hearing stories like this are heartbreaking and I'm sorry you had to deal with all that.

[West Leas Oros 2]

1. yeah, given my observations i would not be surprised if that were the case
2. oh yes it's definitely just that men are jerks and not that i have an extensive array of negative experiences with men going beyond them being dicks, such as observing senseless public male-on-male violence, being the target of men's sexual harassment, watching my parents' marriage fall apart because of my father's sex addiction and his inability to communicate induced by deeply-rooted toxic masculinity, etc. but no yeah my reasoning is definitely that simplistic and reductive; i am a woman after all, just so irrational & quick to rush to conclusions! x

I don't agree with you, but it does seem like you've been through some serious shit. Calling sexual predators the scum of the earth is more than they deserve. Men aren't born sexual predators, but a number of us are corrupted the widespread societal norms that normalize predatory behavior and exploitation. It probable means nothing from a stranger on the internet, but hearing stories like this are heartbreaking and I'm sorry you had to deal with all that.

But surely you think subjugating nearly half the population is a ridiculous idea, and that most men aren’t evil?

[Helwys]

I don't think women should vote let alone hold a political office.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I don't agree with you, but it does seem like you've been through some serious shit. Calling sexual predators the scum of the earth is more than they deserve. Men aren't born sexual predators, but a number of us are corrupted the widespread societal norms that normalize predatory behavior and exploitation. It probable means nothing from a stranger on the internet, but hearing stories like this are heartbreaking and I'm sorry you had to deal with all that.

But surely you think subjugating nearly half the population is a ridiculous idea, and that most men aren’t evil?

It's definitely a ridiculous idea, men aren't some monolithic hivemind that needs to be subjugated.