West Coast Burning: The Western Wildfire Thread

[Albertstadt]

Getting kinda tired of the pollution levels, particulate levels between 500-600, and yet still see cars driving single occupancy and adding still more pollution to the air. Meanwhile, knowing the smoke forecast, we socked up for a week plus of smoke and stocked my mother in law up also (since we do not want her out in the Covid or the smoke).

Wish there was some government lever that could be pulled to keep people from driving in the stuff, making the air quality even worse. Not sure what was worse today--my husband having to drive to work, or him walking to work with the air quality rating of 587 (it is a 2.5 mile distance). Both were bad choices.

[Reploid Productions]

Getting kinda tired of the pollution levels, particulate levels between 500-600, and yet still see cars driving single occupancy and adding still more pollution to the air. Meanwhile, knowing the smoke forecast, we socked up for a week plus of smoke and stocked my mother in law up also (since we do not want her out in the Covid or the smoke).

Wish there was some government lever that could be pulled to keep people from driving in the stuff, making the air quality even worse. Not sure what was worse today--my husband having to drive to work, or him walking to work with the air quality rating of 587 (it is a 2.5 mile distance). Both were bad choices.

Sadly, the pollution from folks in the cars is probably pretty negligible right now compared to the smoke from the fires and necessary for health and safety reasons since car cabins provide filtered air. Pretty certain that even if everyone stopped driving, the air quality would still be at or at least close to 587 just because the smoke is the biggest factor right now. Certainly driving is going to be safer than walking, no matter how good a safety mask you've got on. >_<

Good call on stocking up though. About all any of us can do when the air is this bad is try to minimize how often we have to go out in the first place. Air quality here in SoCal is nowhere close to as bad as it is up north, but it's still pretty bad. I am not looking forward to when we hit our peak fire season weather in October and November.

[The North America Union]

Air quality above 500 sucks...watching favorite vacation spots burn to the ground...this all sucks. We need to get this under control, it isn't political, it's a matter of hundreds of thousands of lives.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Air quality above 500 sucks...watching favorite vacation spots burn to the ground...this all sucks. We need to get this under control, it isn't political, it's a matter of hundreds of thousands of lives.

Yet some people remain so irritant and continue to politicise these incidents. I mean, the reasons are clear, dry spells, higher temps because of climate change also lead to drier conditions, human neglect, et cetera, nothing else to be really discussed here.

[Costa Fierro]

Air quality above 500 sucks...watching favorite vacation spots burn to the ground...this all sucks. We need to get this under control, it isn't political, it's a matter of hundreds of thousands of lives.

Yet some people remain so irritant and continue to politicise these incidents. I mean, the reasons are clear, dry spells, higher temps because of climate change also lead to drier conditions, human neglect, et cetera, nothing else to be really discussed here.

And Republicans voting down proper forest management measures, ironically enough.

Climate change will make things worse, undoubtedly, but believe it or not, there's actually quite a bit of science that goes into fire management and prevention, which includes active forest management.

[Reploid Productions]

Climate change will make things worse, undoubtedly, but believe it or not, there's actually quite a bit of science that goes into fire management and prevention, which includes active forest management.

True that, particularly fuel management. Too much focus on preventing all fires for instance just makes the fires worse when (and it's ALWAYS "when" and not "if") they do happen because the fuel load builds up. These regions adapted around dealing with the occasional fire, we need better use of controlled burns and the like. I remember we had a real beast of a blaze awhile back that was burning up in really inaccessible canyons that hadn't burned in decades, so you can just imagine the fuel build up. Took crews over a month and a half to fully contain the bloody thing.

[Costa Fierro]

True that, particularly fuel management. Too much focus on preventing all fires for instance just makes the fires worse when (and it's ALWAYS "when" and not "if") they do happen because the fuel load builds up. These regions adapted around dealing with the occasional fire, we need better use of controlled burns and the like. I remember we had a real beast of a blaze awhile back that was burning up in really inaccessible canyons that hadn't burned in decades, so you can just imagine the fuel build up. Took crews over a month and a half to fully contain the bloody thing.

The United States saw what happened to Yellowstone in 1988 to know that the prevent all fires strategy in a forest biome that requires fire to be able to reproduce and regenerate is a bad idea. The problem is that a lot of people have built homes in these areas and expect that these homes should be protected, when in reality it's generating significant problems and putting people's lives at risk. We had a similar fire as well in early 2019 that began in an area that had been previously logged, and all the slash coupled with flammable plants like broom and gorse, plus hot and windy conditions lead to New Zealand experiencing it's largest fire in half a century (and my paternal grandmother ringing up asking where the fire was because all she could see was smoke).

I'm not sure what the US policies regarding fire management are like but if it keeps allowing things like this to happen then there's definitely political failings. It's not going to make the fires any less severe but definitely will help reduce the impact in rural communities.

[Neutraligon]

True that, particularly fuel management. Too much focus on preventing all fires for instance just makes the fires worse when (and it's ALWAYS "when" and not "if") they do happen because the fuel load builds up. These regions adapted around dealing with the occasional fire, we need better use of controlled burns and the like. I remember we had a real beast of a blaze awhile back that was burning up in really inaccessible canyons that hadn't burned in decades, so you can just imagine the fuel build up. Took crews over a month and a half to fully contain the bloody thing.

The United States saw what happened to Yellowstone in 1988 to know that the prevent all fires strategy in a forest biome that requires fire to be able to reproduce and regenerate is a bad idea. The problem is that a lot of people have built homes in these areas and expect that these homes should be protected, when in reality it's generating significant problems and putting people's lives at risk. We had a similar fire as well in early 2019 that began in an area that had been previously logged, and all the slash coupled with flammable plants like broom and gorse, plus hot and windy conditions lead to New Zealand experiencing it's largest fire in half a century (and my paternal grandmother ringing up asking where the fire was because all she could see was smoke).

I'm not sure what the US policies regarding fire management are like but if it keeps allowing things like this to happen then there's definitely political failings. It's not going to make the fires any less severe but definitely will help reduce the impact in rural communities.

It is state based I believe

[Blasted Craigs]

Yet some people remain so irritant and continue to politicise these incidents. I mean, the reasons are clear, dry spells, higher temps because of climate change also lead to drier conditions, human neglect, et cetera, nothing else to be really discussed here.

And Republicans voting down proper forest management measures, ironically enough.

Climate change will make things worse, undoubtedly, but believe it or not, there's actually quite a bit of science that goes into fire management and prevention, which includes active forest management.

Actually, not to burst your bubble or anything, but Republican states like Ga and AL are very good at conducting controlled burning, which is where you prevent massive fires by burning brushwood and grass, thereby removing a large source of kindling that makes it so that fires rage out of control.
You're thinking about Liberals who are against controlled burning, which is why it is places like Ca and Wa that burn, not places like Az and Ga, that burn.
Unless you're saying that Ca is actually republican led?
Not to mention it has been made worse due to arson by terrorists. Who are the terrorists? Well, it's been denied vehemently that it is Antifa. Must be a bunch of lone wolves, or maybe it's those darn right wing terror squads that are also attacking and looting businesses to make BLM look bad, and setting buildings on fire. Not the pure, non violent ANTIFA.
With the revolving door policy of letting ANTIFA go as soon as they are arrested, and telling police they are not to stop any type of violence during the riots, including using non lethal dispersal methods like tear gas, I seriously doubt the claims by the same government stooges that ANTIFA is not involved.
But whoever it is, Arson, not republicans, are why the fires are raging across the west coast. Arson by whom, we may or may not find out.

[Bassoe]

Not to mention it has been made worse due to arson by terrorists.

No, seriously, do you have any news articles?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Not to mention it has been made worse due to arson by terrorists.

No, seriously, do you have any news articles?

No articles on hand atm but I know someone got arrested recently in the Puget Sound area in Washington trying to start fires, cuz some people are just worthless like that.

[Blasted Craigs]

Not to mention it has been made worse due to arson by terrorists.

No, seriously, do you have any news articles?

Ok...
Michael Jarrod Bakkela, 41 https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-charged-arson-connection-almeda-fire-southern-oregon/story?id=72960208
44 year old Jonathan Maas https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/516158-44-year-old-man-charged-with-arson-in-oregon-fire
37-year-old Anita Esquivel https://kion546.com/news/2020/09/07/woman-accused-of-intentionally-starting-fires-on-highway-101-arrested/
Jeffrey Acord, 36 https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article245659120.html
Enough citations for ya? That's 4 so far.....and the fires are still raging.
Oh wait, it's all Trump's fault I guess, and no amount of citations or proof will prove otherwise, or Snopes will say, "Mostly false...since fires cannot be counted numerically, it cannot be stated if the fires were made worse due to arson."
Attempted but unsuccessful arson?
https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/antifa-commander-with-flamethrower-cried-when-he-was-arrested/
Maybe he wanted to use it to light birthday candles, i guess.
I even left out the fox news articles, and mostly went with local news, except for NY times for the flamethrower bit.
Edit=Don't know if the news tribune is right leaning or not, so here is another local source on Jeffrey Acord
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/high-bail-suspect-who-live-streamed-fire-he-allegedly-set/PJLNIRQMFZAG5OBTVST67I3YIE/

[Blasted Craigs]

(Image)
No, seriously, do you have any news articles?

Ok...
Michael Jarrod Bakkela, 41 https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-charged-arson-connection-almeda-fire-southern-oregon/story?id=72960208
44 year old Jonathan Maas https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/516158-44-year-old-man-charged-with-arson-in-oregon-fire
37-year-old Anita Esquivel https://kion546.com/news/2020/09/07/woman-accused-of-intentionally-starting-fires-on-highway-101-arrested/
Jeffrey Acord, 36 https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article245659120.html
Enough citations for ya? That's 4 so far.....and the fires are still raging.
Oh wait, it's all Trump's fault I guess, and no amount of citations or proof will prove otherwise, or Snopes will say, "Mostly false...since fires cannot be counted numerically, it cannot be stated if the fires were made worse due to arson."
Attempted but unsuccessful arson?
https://nypost.com/2020/09/02/antifa-commander-with-flamethrower-cried-when-he-was-arrested/
Maybe he wanted to use it to light birthday candles, i guess.
I even left out the fox news articles, and mostly went with local news, except for NY times for the flamethrower bit.
Edit=Don't know if the news tribune is right leaning or not, so here is another local source on Jeffrey Acord
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/high-bail-suspect-who-live-streamed-fire-he-allegedly-set/PJLNIRQMFZAG5OBTVST67I3YIE/

More arsonists arrested....
36-year-old Christine Comellohttps://www.khq.com/news/arson-suspect-arrested-after-allegedly-starting-multiple-fires-in-spokane-on-monday/article_62df8a40-f223-11ea-8a02-af6f5dca5965.html
44 year old Elias Newton Pendergrasshttps://katu.com/news/local/suspect-arrested-in-connection-to-sweet-creek-fire-in-mapleton
Unknown, middle aged tattooed man, police are looking for https://nbc16.com/news/local/man-seen-starting-fires-at-oregon-state-park-local-fire-chief-says?fbclid=IwAR0oZy___Y1f9W7R3oUpWPNWXnbYLmy8LuqD_tR_LNUk8H09mj1EqwAwr-U
Good Samaritans put out the fire before it spread, the man in question was starting the fires.
If that's not enough for ya, I don't know what to say...
Edit=Correction, the last one, the middle aged tattooed man wasn't arrested and is still at large....

[Costa Fierro]

The United States saw what happened to Yellowstone in 1988 to know that the prevent all fires strategy in a forest biome that requires fire to be able to reproduce and regenerate is a bad idea. The problem is that a lot of people have built homes in these areas and expect that these homes should be protected, when in reality it's generating significant problems and putting people's lives at risk. We had a similar fire as well in early 2019 that began in an area that had been previously logged, and all the slash coupled with flammable plants like broom and gorse, plus hot and windy conditions lead to New Zealand experiencing it's largest fire in half a century (and my paternal grandmother ringing up asking where the fire was because all she could see was smoke).

I'm not sure what the US policies regarding fire management are like but if it keeps allowing things like this to happen then there's definitely political failings. It's not going to make the fires any less severe but definitely will help reduce the impact in rural communities.

It is state based I believe

I was going to say given Oregon's current experience, having a state-based approach isn't exactly working if there's no mutual realisation that history will repeat itself if nothing changes, but given Australia generally has a state-centric response system as well (although they're really into actual forest management) and it's delivered mixed results (see 2003, 2009, and 2019).

I dunno, seems like the argument is being presented as two options with no way to say that Trump is partially right (as it pains me to say this) but for the wrong reasons, as Gavin Newsom also being right that climate change will make these events worse and worse. Forest management is essential in mitigating the impact of wildfires on communities and climate change makes the conditions worse.

[New haven america]

It is state based I believe

I was going to say given Oregon's current experience, having a state-based approach isn't exactly working if there's no mutual realisation that history will repeat itself if nothing changes, but given Australia generally has a state-centric response system as well (although they're really into actual forest management) and it's delivered mixed results (see 2003, 2009, and 2019).

I dunno, seems like the argument is being presented as two options with no way to say that Trump is partially right (as it pains me to say this) but for the wrong reasons, as Gavin Newsom also being right that climate change will make these events worse and worse. Forest management is essential in mitigating the impact of wildfires on communities and climate change makes the conditions worse.

Blame the state's GOP.

They've walked on and voted against basically every single fire prevention, forest handling reform, and climate change bill put on the floor since the late 00's.

Ironically one of these GOP member's house burned down in the recent firestorms.

[Greed and Death]

I was going to say given Oregon's current experience, having a state-based approach isn't exactly working if there's no mutual realisation that history will repeat itself if nothing changes, but given Australia generally has a state-centric response system as well (although they're really into actual forest management) and it's delivered mixed results (see 2003, 2009, and 2019).

I dunno, seems like the argument is being presented as two options with no way to say that Trump is partially right (as it pains me to say this) but for the wrong reasons, as Gavin Newsom also being right that climate change will make these events worse and worse. Forest management is essential in mitigating the impact of wildfires on communities and climate change makes the conditions worse.

Blame the state's GOP.

They've walked on and voted against basically every single fire prevention, forest handling reform, and climate change bill put on the floor since the late 00's.

Ironically one of these GOP member's house burned down in the recent firestorms.

The GOP's in the minority and Oregon doesn't have a filibuster. So I am going to have to call BS on that.

[New haven america]

Blame the state's GOP.

They've walked on and voted against basically every single fire prevention, forest handling reform, and climate change bill put on the floor since the late 00's.

Ironically one of these GOP member's house burned down in the recent firestorms.

The GOP's in the minority and Oregon doesn't have a filibuster. So I am going to have to call BS on that.

If you don't have a full state legislature then you can't vote.

So get that call outa here~

[Greed and Death]

The GOP's in the minority and Oregon doesn't have a filibuster. So I am going to have to call BS on that.

If you don't have a full state legislature then you can't vote.

So get that call outa here~

They walked out twice about gun control and global warming. Once gun control and global warming proposals were dropped they returned. That ball drops on the Democrats for dropping fire control with gun control measures.
https://apnews.com/fa62a40d20574a2f80809fb857db86c1

[Major-Tom]

And Republicans voting down proper forest management measures, ironically enough.

Climate change will make things worse, undoubtedly, but believe it or not, there's actually quite a bit of science that goes into fire management and prevention, which includes active forest management.

Actually, not to burst your bubble or anything, but Republican states like Ga and AL are very good at conducting controlled burning, which is where you prevent massive fires by burning brushwood and grass, thereby removing a large source of kindling that makes it so that fires rage out of control.
You're thinking about Liberals who are against controlled burning, which is why it is places like Ca and Wa that burn, not places like Az and Ga, that burn.
Unless you're saying that Ca is actually republican led?
Not to mention it has been made worse due to arson by terrorists. Who are the terrorists? Well, it's been denied vehemently that it is Antifa. Must be a bunch of lone wolves, or maybe it's those darn right wing terror squads that are also attacking and looting businesses to make BLM look bad, and setting buildings on fire. Not the pure, non violent ANTIFA.
With the revolving door policy of letting ANTIFA go as soon as they are arrested, and telling police they are not to stop any type of violence during the riots, including using non lethal dispersal methods like tear gas, I seriously doubt the claims by the same government stooges that ANTIFA is not involved.
But whoever it is, Arson, not republicans, are why the fires are raging across the west coast. Arson by whom, we may or may not find out.

Most of the land that burned in California is controlled by the federal government, it's not California's fault, and I don't know how the fuck you're bringing arson into this when just about every Sheriff's Department from Cali to WaState is vehemently denying those fake, completely unfounded allegations.

Of course AL and GA are better at having less wildfires, they're less prone to wildfires because of their climate. They don't go months upon months without rain, with dry, windy conditions fueling fires for weeks on end.

Christ, if you're gonna post, at least know what you're talking about.

[Telconi]

The GOP's in the minority and Oregon doesn't have a filibuster. So I am going to have to call BS on that.

If you don't have a full state legislature then you can't vote.

So get that call outa here~

You can though, Oregon specifically requires 2/3 in attendance to hold a vote.

[Greed and Death]

If you don't have a full state legislature then you can't vote.

So get that call outa here~

You can though, Oregon specifically requires 2/3 in attendance to hold a vote.

And they came back after Gun Control and green deal pipe dreams were removed.

[Greed and Death]

Speaking of Oregon armed people are stopping people from coming and going into communities to ensure they are not looters.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/14/us/orego ... index.html

[Blasted Craigs]

Actually, not to burst your bubble or anything, but Republican states like Ga and AL are very good at conducting controlled burning, which is where you prevent massive fires by burning brushwood and grass, thereby removing a large source of kindling that makes it so that fires rage out of control.
You're thinking about Liberals who are against controlled burning, which is why it is places like Ca and Wa that burn, not places like Az and Ga, that burn.
Unless you're saying that Ca is actually republican led?
Not to mention it has been made worse due to arson by terrorists. Who are the terrorists? Well, it's been denied vehemently that it is Antifa. Must be a bunch of lone wolves, or maybe it's those darn right wing terror squads that are also attacking and looting businesses to make BLM look bad, and setting buildings on fire. Not the pure, non violent ANTIFA.
With the revolving door policy of letting ANTIFA go as soon as they are arrested, and telling police they are not to stop any type of violence during the riots, including using non lethal dispersal methods like tear gas, I seriously doubt the claims by the same government stooges that ANTIFA is not involved.
But whoever it is, Arson, not republicans, are why the fires are raging across the west coast. Arson by whom, we may or may not find out.

Most of the land that burned in California is controlled by the federal government, it's not California's fault, and I don't know how the fuck you're bringing arson into this when just about every Sheriff's Department from Cali to WaState is vehemently denying those fake, completely unfounded allegations.

Of course AL and GA are better at having less wildfires, they're less prone to wildfires because of their climate. They don't go months upon months without rain, with dry, windy conditions fueling fires for weeks on end.

Christ, if you're gonna post, at least know what you're talking about.

Ok, so with that in mind...
Would you say the same in response to the allegation it's the fault of the GOP?
I am not a fan of the GOP, but there was no mention of the land being federal when the accusation was it was stated on this forum that the fires were the GOP's fault, but as soon as I point out it's a Democrat state, the tune turns into...It's federal land!
And as far as different climates, name on Conservative state that has the same problems wildfires that California has....I'll wait.

Unless you are inferring that Cali is a special snowflake of a state that no other state can be compared to because of it's completely different climate? Cause Nevada is right next to them, but again, doesn't have raging wildfires...

And now actual local news is reporting , and I quote, "fake, completely unfounded allegations"
And no, they said the allegations ANTIFA are coordinating the arson is fake.
EDIT-

Even though ANTIFA groups posted they were planning on starting fires before the fires started, but I guess that's just conspiracy nutjob bullshit, and those groups infiltrated ANTIFA just to post things to frame them, knowing lone wolves would start fires right after....

-Edit
Not that arson itself is fake. Unless you are suggesting multiple local news sources are in fact fake news, and that the arrest records and charges being filed are also fake?
Really....?

I guess all evils in history, all things bad, are due to conservatives, and all the good in the world is due to liberals...
The hypocrisy and (especially when I take the time to provide links to actual news articles) utter disdain here is amazing. -EDIT-By most users that post on the forum-EDIT-I used to love lurking and posting on this forum, but in the past few years, this forum has become a leftists echo chamber, filled with an attitude of sneering elitism and a complete disregard for the truth, unless said truth has confirmation bias that reinforces the leftist world view.
When there is any post that disparages Leftists dogma or shows conservative stances in any type of positive light, there is an immediate call for sources, and then a rejection of said sources to and a call to re confirm the Leftist stance on the issue.
Turn it around, like when it was stated the wildfires were due to GOP initiatives, it's not questioned at all, and simply accepted with smug nods of confirmation....tsk tsk...we all now conservatives are bad..of course.

The horrible part? I don't even like the GOP, but damn, I dislike falsehood and deceit more. Like a reporter in I saw after the 2016 election said, damn you for making them the good guys. (I would say the lesser of the bad guys, but I digress)

I know this is a rant, but damn, I used to love this forum, and I hate it has become reddit light.

[Ethel mermania]

has anyone mentioned that this years federal controlled burns were canceled due to covid?

[New haven america]

Speaking of Oregon armed people are stopping people from coming and going into communities to ensure they are not looters.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/14/us/orego ... index.html

No, they're doing that in order to arrest or kill "Members of ANTIFA", which is illegal but most of the cops here tend to be racist and classist assholes so they don't see an issue with it.

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/12/clackamas-county-antifa-rumor-sheriff-deputy-leave/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vdxl_7xhAI&feature=youtu.be