NATION

PASSWORD

To Murder a Monster

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Will you slay the butcher here or leave his fate to an international court?

The evil this man has committed is beyond excusable - he dies here and now, by my hand.
44
56%
It's not my place to decide his fate - I leave him alive to face his crimes in the Hague.
35
44%
 
Total votes : 79

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Trollzyn the Infinite
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5496
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

To Murder a Monster

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:20 pm

You are the leader of an elite group of special forces soldiers (yes, you! Just roll with it). Five years ago your country was invaded by a neighboring nation that had fallen to xenophobic, ultranationalist, warmongering, authoritarian political party which abolished it's democratic system and established a brutal dictatorship. Numerous war crimes followed their invasion of your country, including numerous organized ethnic cleansing operations reminiscent of the Holocaust. Thanks to the aid of an international coalition your country has managed to beat back the invasion and is preparing for a counter-assault as the invaders have begun to lose ground and are coming close to facing total defeat. You, meanwhile, have been tasked on a special operation that by pure chance happened to be a raid on a compound inhabited by the supreme commander of the enemy forces. This general, who was directly responsible for the ethnic cleansings that have been carried out against your people, shows no fear as you and your squad face him. He proudly proclaims his crimes as acts of heroism of what he calls an "inferior race" and loudly declares he would do it again given the chance.

Throughout your campaign you've witnessed his atrocities first-hand, horrifying images of mutilated and rotting corpses. Innocent people young and old--men, women, and children--butchered mercilessly and dumped unceremoniously in mass graves. The images of these crimes haunt your dreams every night and will likely stay with you for the rest of your life. As your face the man who butchered your people without remorse who continues to display no guilt of conscious the men under your command, justly furious at the callous disregard for the lives of their people this vile man has shown, quietly state that if he were to have an "accident" that no one would say anything. You've served with these men for years; you have no idea they're being completely honest. You, yourself, can't help but feel rage at the war crimes you've witnessed. Technically you're expected to arrest the general so he can be sent to the Hague, but no one would miss him if he were to suddenly die "unexpectedly". There are no other witnesses. Your committed and decorated service record has earned you many allies in positions of power, none of which are willing to question your "official" account of the encounter.

What you face is not a question of legality but of morality. No matter your choice, the outcome remains the same: the mass-murderer is brought to justice. You will face no punishment either way. Your men respect you enough to follow your decision no matter what. You'll be remembered as a hero regardless of your choice.

Will you kill the butcher or spare him?

I make no illusions about my capability for restraint. Against my better judgement, I would most likely kill him then and there. Especially after witnessing his crimes. I'd probably regret it later, but I wouldn't feel bad about it that's for sure.
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Auze
Minister
 
Posts: 2076
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Auze » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:39 pm

Wait, you aren't IM...

Edit: anyway, considering the track record of many an international court, I lean towards option 2. On the other hand, I'd probably go with option 1 personally.
Last edited by Auze on Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trollzyn the Infinite
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5496
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:41 pm

Auze wrote:Wait, you aren't IM...


IM is unfortunately a ChiCom sympathizer now and as such has been driven off the throne and into exile by an angry mob.

The king is dead; long live the republic!
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The Two Jerseys
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Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:41 pm

Clear the compound with grenades and flamethrowers. It's not murder if you don't give him the opportunity to surrender.
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Cordel One
Senator
 
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Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Cordel One » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:42 pm

Forgive me for my sadism, but he's going down.
Last edited by Cordel One on Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Trollzyn the Infinite
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5496
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:44 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:Clear the compound with grenades and flamethrowers. It's not murder if you don't give him the opportunity to surrender.


Ah, yes, the Doom Marine approach.

Cordel One wrote:Forgive me for my sadism, but he's going down.


It's not sadism to just execute him. Now if you tortured him first, *that* would be sadistic.
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"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

Reminder that Donald J. Trump is officially a traitor to the United States of America as of January 6th, 2021
The Paradox of Tolerance
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀
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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:48 pm

Shoot him. A trial would be nothing but a waste of money.
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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:50 pm

Fuck law and order, and international law, he gon' burn.

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:50 pm

Well of course I'd kill him. But not for any sort of justice. Like seriously, unless I was effected personally by his war crimes I couldn't care less. No, I would kill him so that history would remember my name as the man who did. Plus it'd be hella fun.
And that's after I'd basically have murdered everyone in that camp surrendering or not. Because frankly the only reason to take prisoners now is to have someone to torment later. And it seems like the war is coming to an end so there would be no time or political convenience to do that.
Last edited by Purpelia on Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Kathol Rift
Diplomat
 
Posts: 720
Founded: Mar 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kathol Rift » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:50 pm

I’d probably shoot out his kneecaps or something very painful like that, then arrest him, because watching him answer for his crimes in front of the world would be much more satisfying than shooting him in the dark.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:51 pm

As much as I’d like to do the right thing and bring him to court, id more than likely end up ending him right there.
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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
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Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:53 pm

This said, given how I'd conduct the war on my end if he has heard of me (which is not unlikely) he probably wouldn't even try to surrender because he'd know that being taken alive would only make things so much worse.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Marxist Germany
Minister
 
Posts: 2171
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Marxist Germany » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:55 pm

All people deserve the right to due process, and only God has the prerogative to take away life.
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:55 pm

I think litterbugs who are repeat offenders should be executed.

So.

He's dead before he gets to make his grand speech.
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Cordel One
Senator
 
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Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Cordel One » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:55 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Cordel One wrote:Forgive me for my sadism, but he's going down.


It's not sadism to just execute him. Now if you tortured him first, *that* would be sadistic.

Gonna keep my answer really vague but I will say I really enjoyed Inglorious Basterds.

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:56 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:All people deserve the right to due process, and only God has the prerogative to take away life.

So we agree. I am the right one to judge him.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Ethel mermania
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129508
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:58 pm

Cordel One wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
It's not sadism to just execute him. Now if you tortured him first, *that* would be sadistic.

Gonna keep my answer really vague but I will say I really enjoyed Inglorious Basterds.


Jewish porn.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Marxist Germany
Minister
 
Posts: 2171
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Marxist Germany » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:59 pm

Purpelia wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:All people deserve the right to due process, and only God has the prerogative to take away life.

So we agree. I am the right one to judge him.

Even an international court should never use the death sentence. Let the man rot in jail.
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South Odreria 2
Minister
 
Posts: 3102
Founded: Aug 26, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby South Odreria 2 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:01 pm

OP seems to conflate asking what the morally superior choice is with asking what one would in fact end up doing.
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Kathol Rift
Diplomat
 
Posts: 720
Founded: Mar 12, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kathol Rift » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:01 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Purpelia wrote:So we agree. I am the right one to judge him.

Even an international court should never use the death sentence. Let the man rot in jail.

No, he should definitely die. I’d just like to watch him squirm on the national stage first. Then he can be executed.
Last edited by Kathol Rift on Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:02 pm

International Court it is.
Trollzyn specified that he'll be getting justice anywhere, and I want to build precedent.
Nuremberg was a missed opportunity.
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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:02 pm

Kowani wrote:International Court it is.
Trollzyn specified that he'll be getting justice anywhere, and I want to build precedent.
Nuremberg was a missed opportunity.


Legally Nuremburg was a sham. We should have just shot the lot of them without even trying to justify it legally.
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Marxist Germany
Minister
 
Posts: 2171
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Marxist Germany » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:03 pm

Kathol Rift wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:Even an international court should never use the death sentence. Let the man rot in jail.

No, he should definitely die. I’d just like to watch him squirm on the national stage first. Then he can be executed.

Life is sacred and should only be taken by a human in self-defence.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

Former delegate of The United Federations; citizen and former Senior Senator of 10000 Islands; 113th Knight of TITO

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:08 pm

Shooting him on the spot would be more immediately satisfying, and the morally superior choice. So i'd do that.
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South Odreria 2
Minister
 
Posts: 3102
Founded: Aug 26, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby South Odreria 2 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:08 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Kowani wrote:International Court it is.
Trollzyn specified that he'll be getting justice anywhere, and I want to build precedent.
Nuremberg was a missed opportunity.


Legally Nuremburg was a sham. We should have just shot the lot of them without even trying to justify it legally.

I rather like Stalin's idea of trials with a presumption of guilt.
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