Shall China exist?

[FutureAmerica]

China shall exist, but their communist party need to perish into history. They are an evil regime that need to be wiped out.

The CCP is communist in name only.

The Chinese practice a perverted form of what they consider communism. Xi is still a major practitioner of communism. They operate in state capitalism with an authoritarian communist party in control.

[New Vedan]

Of course not. China has existed for thousands of years and there not just going to disappear because you want them too. Nobody has the strength to to break up China and if they tried it would almost surely lead to a nuclear war. Not to mention the fact that historically every time China gets broken up the rulers of the remnant states fight each other to reestablish one unified China. There is no reason why it would be any diffrent in the 21st century. If China breaks up expect the deaths of millions of people.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Oh but it would. With the old plantation land, newly freed slaves wouldn't have fallen into deep poverty like they did iotl. Even if they weren't going to hire laborers to make the land profitable, they still could've sold the land and used their newly acquired funds to pursue higher education and better paying jobs, thus solving their financial issues.

It actually wouldn’t since what’s in the brain (culture) is more important than money. You talk about higher education because Iranian (and Jewish, Goetian) culture does value these things. Not even the white southern culture values it that much, let alone the black one which is in fact not that different from the white one. Learning a trade was more reasonable in the context. Even in this case I can imagine that them adapting to a European culture was probably as hard as me trying to adapt to an African one since lots of shared unspoken Eurasian values were not there. These issues are actually pretty decisive and are more important than money.

That’s of course also why antisemitic expulsions could never break Jewry. The accumulation of Jewish culture can never be disrupted by a few random European and Middle Eastern pogrom mobs or warlords including Hitler.

Education can assist in filling brains and bringing people out of poverty. To argue otherwise is absurd. And in this case, the money is used to pay for higher education. The only reason black culture exists the way it does today is because post-Civil War, the former slaves were left with nothing and, ironically, had to go back to practical slavery, just with a minimum amount of payment.

Also most Southern whites were poor apart from a few plantation owners, so again, the fact that their culture doesn't value education is irrelevant to your argument and actually works against it.

[Feline Goetland]

It actually wouldn’t since what’s in the brain (culture) is more important than money. You talk about higher education because Iranian (and Jewish, Goetian) culture does value these things. Not even the white southern culture values it that much, let alone the black one which is in fact not that different from the white one. Learning a trade was more reasonable in the context. Even in this case I can imagine that them adapting to a European culture was probably as hard as me trying to adapt to an African one since lots of shared unspoken Eurasian values were not there. These issues are actually pretty decisive and are more important than money.

That’s of course also why antisemitic expulsions could never break Jewry. The accumulation of Jewish culture can never be disrupted by a few random European and Middle Eastern pogrom mobs or warlords including Hitler.

Education can assist in filling brains and bringing people out of poverty. To argue otherwise is absurd. And in this case, the money is used to pay for higher education. The only reason black culture exists the way it does today is because post-Civil War, the former slaves were left with nothing and, ironically, had to go back to practical slavery, just with a minimum amount of payment.

Also most Southern whites were poor apart from a few plantation owners, so again, the fact that their culture doesn't value education is irrelevant to your argument and actually works against it.

I agree. However the idea that education is good is usually not present in illiterate slaves.

Even right now the culture of the South regardless of race isn’t that pro-education.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

While I do not share Goetland's obsession with biology and genetics, he does have a valid point about superior vs inferior cultures and mindsets, particularly in relation to Ashkenazi Jews. I look up to them and to Israel too. Unlike him, however, I believe that China can and will change for the better. Cultures evolve and memes transcend race and geography. Conditions may change abruptly, rendering a previously "superior" culture obsolete or at the very least, level the playing field. We have seen this with the coronavirus and the West's lackluster response to it, proving that when it comes to disease control, the Western mindset of liberty at all costs, while laudable in its own right, is a liability compared to the more conservative East Asian mindset of obeying the rules and keeping one's head down, which appears to have worked in Malaysia and parts of Southeast Asia as well as Japan and South Korea. Some of these countries have experienced outbreaks, but they remain much smaller than the ones in Europe and the Americas, and they were/are always subsequently contained. Nothing is set in stone. But this isn't about race at all and it shouldn't be.

The Philippines and Indonesia seem to be the principal outliers. Culturally, they are not East Asian enough to avoid such a huge spike in coronavirus cases, and their economies are in much worse shape with overcrowded slums abounding in many places, making social distancing impossible. Roman Catholicism introduced by the Spanish has also resulted in massive overpopulation and rampant poverty in the Philippines. We know Islam doesn't really help matters either because the Middle East has similarly struggled with the pandemic. And we all know about the deteriorating situation in India.

Malaysia, a Malay-majority country with its large Malaysian Chinese minority and our very own Health DG Dr. Noor Hisham Abdullah, an ethnic Chinese who was raised in a Malay, Muslim household, has fared much better than some of its Malayo-Polynesian neighbors. The same goes for Brunei, another Malay-majority country that is also home to a large, stateless, Chinese minority. Brunei has fewer than 150 confirmed cases nationwide. However, it remains to be seen how Myanmar will handle its own outbreak. Cases are rising fast over there.

If it wasn't for the totalitarian CCP, we wouldn't have a pandemic today. A more democratic government would've snuffed out the coronavirus on the spot instead of attempting to cover up its existence and silence whistleblowers. Chinese people all over the country would've donned face masks all over the country the moment a new virus was detected, and much sooner no less. Communism, not traditional Chinese culture, is responsible for what China has degenerated into today. China would have a much richer and fuller culture today if it wasn't for communism. As it stands, Japan is more Chinese than China. Taiwan is the most "Chinese" of all even if its citizens no longer identify as such and have every right not to.

With respect to the coronavirus pandemic, East Asian culture is undoubtedly "superior" to Western culture.

The CCP is responsible for our cultural degeneration and the racial and cultural stigmatization of the overseas Chinese and East Asian diaspora. We must eliminate the CCP and communism as a political force if we are to have any hope of Making China Great Again. Only then can I truly say I am proud to be Chinese without lying. Either way, I believe the Chinese people, like everyone else, have a right to self-determination and a Han-majority China has a right to exist, albeit not with its current, overexpansive borders. The CCP infringes on that right to self-determination.

China shall exist, but their communist party need to perish into history. They are an evil regime that need to be wiped out.

The CCP is communist in name only.

Not this again.

[Vivolkha]

This.

Also, ironically, extreme hatred for the CCP abroad only boosts its domestic popularity, since it plays into its narrative of a China long victimized by foreign powers and restored to greatness by the current regime (and the same goes for Putin's Russia, by the way).

The proper definition of “Chinese” is “people enslaved, deracinated and brainwashed by Sinostatism”. Hence if you claim you are Chinese you are by definition a victim of China. By saying I’m ethnic Wu / Goetian I’m affirming that China no longer has me under its bondage and that I’m thankfully free.

When nobody says that they are Chinese the people will have been set free.

What does this have to do with my previous post?

Oh right, nothing.

[Dytarma]

Perhaps we sink the entirety of China's land, that way there can be no disputes over land that no longer exists?

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Education can assist in filling brains and bringing people out of poverty. To argue otherwise is absurd. And in this case, the money is used to pay for higher education. The only reason black culture exists the way it does today is because post-Civil War, the former slaves were left with nothing and, ironically, had to go back to practical slavery, just with a minimum amount of payment.

Also most Southern whites were poor apart from a few plantation owners, so again, the fact that their culture doesn't value education is irrelevant to your argument and actually works against it.

I agree. However the idea that education is good is usually not present in illiterate slaves.

Even right now the culture of the South regardless of race isn’t that pro-education.

You seem to underestimate the ability for culture to be shaped by the relative wealth of the whole.

The South isn't very rich, in fact it's mostly rural. That's probably why their culture isn't so heavy on education, since they weren't very rich to begin with and were forced to rely on plantation work. If that had changed (because let's face it-- why would newly freed slaves put others back to low pay service?), then the culture does too.

Societal wealth and how rich a culture is determines and shapes a culture. That's why most American immigrant cultures do just fine and are (relatively) wealthy, they have no barriers preventing them from shaping the life they want, including a life of education. By contrast, American blacks were held back by the system until the 1960s and continue to struggle. All because we didn't give them the means to educate themselves in the first place.

Also consider for a moment how blacks were banned from education in the South even after the Civil War, only contributing further to their decline into poverty. Even after they stopped being banned, they were purposefully segregated from whites and ended up with worse quality education, leading to the problems they face today.

[-Astoria-]

Perhaps we sink the entirety of China's land, that way there can be no disputes over land that no longer exists?

How much dynamite would one need?

[Hurdergaryp]

Yes, yes, mindless hatred of China is in vogue. That doesn't mean it's smart.

At least we now know that it is perfectly possible to bring the Yellow Peril back in fashion, as long as you do not openly call it by that name.

[Feline Goetland]

Yes, yes, mindless hatred of China is in vogue. That doesn't mean it's smart.

At least we now know that it is perfectly possible to bring the Yellow Peril back in fashion, as long as you do not openly call it by that name.

I think it is normal and natural to have some degree of tribal competition. It actually helps everyone improve in the long run. Without Northeast Asians and Middle Easterners who are going to prevent Europe from degenerating into inaction and stagnation? Similarly without the threat that maybe Russia or some other country might simply wipe us out Japan and even the evil PRC would not have been that competent today.

One of the few benefits of China existing is causing a second space race which will help humanity in the long run.

Why do you hate competition so much? Lots of cool things are done in the world precisely because Tribe A wants to do better than Tribe B and vice versa.

[Feline Goetland]

I agree. However the idea that education is good is usually not present in illiterate slaves.

Even right now the culture of the South regardless of race isn’t that pro-education.

You seem to underestimate the ability for culture to be shaped by the relative wealth of the whole.

The South isn't very rich, in fact it's mostly rural. That's probably why their culture isn't so heavy on education, since they weren't very rich to begin with and were forced to rely on plantation work. If that had changed (because let's face it-- why would newly freed slaves put others back to low pay service?), then the culture does too.

Societal wealth and how rich a culture is determines and shapes a culture. That's why most American immigrant cultures do just fine and are (relatively) wealthy, they have no barriers preventing them from shaping the life they want, including a life of education. By contrast, American blacks were held back by the system until the 1960s and continue to struggle. All because we didn't give them the means to educate themselves in the first place.

Also consider for a moment how blacks were banned from education in the South even after the Civil War, only contributing further to their decline into poverty. Even after they stopped being banned, they were purposefully segregated from whites and ended up with worse quality education, leading to the problems they face today.

Hmm do you think early immigrants from Ireland, Poland and Japan brought tons of rubles, yen etc to the New World or something? Using your logic descendants of Russian Jewish emigre who fled from Russia must be very uneducated because when they first arrived at NYC they didn’t have lots of money..

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

While I do not share Goetland's obsession with biology and genetics, he does have a valid point about superior vs inferior cultures and mindsets, particularly in relation to Ashkenazi Jews. I look up to them and to Israel too. Unlike him, however, I believe that China can and will change for the better. Cultures evolve and memes transcend race and geography. Conditions may change abruptly, rendering a previously "superior" culture obsolete or at the very least, level the playing field. We have seen this with the coronavirus and the West's lackluster response to it, proving that when it comes to disease control, the Western mindset of liberty at all costs, while laudable in its own right, is a liability compared to the more conservative East Asian mindset of obeying the rules and keeping one's head down, which appears to have worked in Malaysia and parts of Southeast Asia as well as Japan and South Korea. Some of these countries have experienced outbreaks, but they remain much smaller than the ones in Europe and the Americas, and they were/are always subsequently contained. Nothing is set in stone. But this isn't about race at all and it shouldn't be.

The Philippines and Indonesia seem to be the principal outliers. Culturally, they are not East Asian enough to avoid such a huge spike in coronavirus cases, and their economies are in much worse shape with overcrowded slums abounding in many places, making social distancing impossible. Roman Catholicism introduced by the Spanish has also resulted in massive overpopulation and rampant poverty in the Philippines. We know Islam doesn't really help matters either because the Middle East has similarly struggled with the pandemic. And we all know about the deteriorating situation in India.

Malaysia, a Malay-majority country with its large Malaysian Chinese minority and our very own Health DG Dr. Noor Hisham Abdullah, an ethnic Chinese who was raised in a Malay, Muslim household, has fared much better than some of its Malayo-Polynesian neighbors. The same goes for Brunei, another Malay-majority country that is also home to a large, stateless, Chinese minority. Brunei has fewer than 150 confirmed cases nationwide. However, it remains to be seen how Myanmar will handle its own outbreak. Cases are rising fast over there.

If it wasn't for the totalitarian CCP, we wouldn't have a pandemic today. A more democratic government would've snuffed out the coronavirus on the spot instead of attempting to cover up its existence and silence whistleblowers. Chinese people all over the country would've donned face masks all over the country the moment a new virus was detected, and much sooner no less. Communism, not traditional Chinese culture, is responsible for what China has degenerated into today. China would have a much richer and fuller culture today if it wasn't for communism. As it stands, Japan is more Chinese than China. Taiwan is the most "Chinese" of all even if its citizens no longer identify as such and have every right not to.

With respect to the coronavirus pandemic, East Asian culture is undoubtedly "superior" to Western culture.

The CCP is responsible for our cultural degeneration and the racial and cultural stigmatization of the overseas Chinese and East Asian diaspora. We must eliminate the CCP and communism as a political force if we are to have any hope of Making China Great Again. Only then can I truly say I am proud to be Chinese without lying. Either way, I believe the Chinese people, like everyone else, have a right to self-determination and a Han-majority China has a right to exist, albeit not with its current, overexpansive borders. The CCP infringes on that right to self-determination.

Trying to attribute everything to race/culture tends to obfuscate the historical reasons for something. For example, SK and SG handled the pandemic well because of their experiences with MERS/SARS and good public health policy.

[Hurdergaryp]

At least we now know that it is perfectly possible to bring the Yellow Peril back in fashion, as long as you do not openly call it by that name.

I think it is normal and natural to have some degree of tribal competition. It actually helps everyone improve in the long run. Without Northeast Asians and Middle Easterners who are going to prevent Europe from degenerating into inaction and stagnation? Similarly without the threat that maybe Russia or some other country might simply wipe us out Japan and even the evil PRC would not have been that competent today.

One of the few benefits of China existing is causing a second space race which will help humanity in the long run.

Why do you hate competition so much? Lots of cool things are done in the world precisely because Tribe A wants to do better than Tribe B and vice versa.

Don't you think that the whole tired trope of Europe being a den of degeneration and stagnation is a bit old? Granted, it is a rather popular concept amongst right wing radicals and those obsessed by conspiracy theories, but that is not exactly a recommendation.

[Feline Goetland]

I think it is normal and natural to have some degree of tribal competition. It actually helps everyone improve in the long run. Without Northeast Asians and Middle Easterners who are going to prevent Europe from degenerating into inaction and stagnation? Similarly without the threat that maybe Russia or some other country might simply wipe us out Japan and even the evil PRC would not have been that competent today.

One of the few benefits of China existing is causing a second space race which will help humanity in the long run.

Why do you hate competition so much? Lots of cool things are done in the world precisely because Tribe A wants to do better than Tribe B and vice versa.

Don't you think that the whole tired trope of Europe being a den of degeneration and stagnation is a bit old? Granted, it is a rather popular concept amongst right wing radicals and those obsessed by conspiracy theories, but that is not exactly a recommendation.

You don’t see it with your own eyes. On the other hand I do because I live in the West. The public infrastructure of America hasn’t improved much since the 1950s and lags behind Japan, Korea and Singapore as well as rich cities in China. The crime rates in cities are unbelievable and locals have no idea that it is even possible for a safe major city like Tokyo to exist, let alone exist in a democracy.

Middle Easterners are Caucasoid anyway and the division between them and Europeans are most about religion, not genetics. The only people on this planet who is not Caucasoid and interact with, learn from, contribute to, intermarry with and sometimes scare Caucasoids are us. The scare part is important for they scare us as well which leads to our improvement. The main reason why modern Northeast Asia exists is that the folks back in 1850 were afraid of extermination by Europeans.

[Cordel One]

The CCP is communist in name only.

The Chinese practice a perverted form of what they consider communism. Xi is still a major practitioner of communism. They operate in state capitalism with an authoritarian communist party in control.

Only nothing they do follows the communist ideology.

The CCP is communist in name only.

Not this again.

I would start a hundred million debates on this subject for just one person to realize they're wrong.

[Hurdergaryp]

Don't you think that the whole tired trope of Europe being a den of degeneration and stagnation is a bit old? Granted, it is a rather popular concept amongst right wing radicals and those obsessed by conspiracy theories, but that is not exactly a recommendation.

You don’t see it with your own eyes. On the other hand I do because I live in the West. The public infrastructure of America hasn’t improved much since the 1950s and lags behind Japan, Korea and Singapore as well as rich cities in China. The crime rates in cities are unbelievable and locals have no idea that it is even possible for a safe major city like Tokyo to exist, let alone exist in a democracy.

Middle Easterners are Caucasoid anyway and the division between them and Europeans are most about religion, not genetics. The only people on this planet who is not Caucasoid and interact with, learn from, contribute to, intermarry with and sometimes scare Caucasoids are us. The scare part is important for they scare us as well which leads to our improvement. The main reason why modern Northeast Asia exists is that the folks back in 1850 were afraid of extermination by Europeans.

Given how I live in Europe, I can tell you that our infrastructure is doing pretty well in general, thank you very much.

[Feline Goetland]

You don’t see it with your own eyes. On the other hand I do because I live in the West. The public infrastructure of America hasn’t improved much since the 1950s and lags behind Japan, Korea and Singapore as well as rich cities in China. The crime rates in cities are unbelievable and locals have no idea that it is even possible for a safe major city like Tokyo to exist, let alone exist in a democracy.

Middle Easterners are Caucasoid anyway and the division between them and Europeans are most about religion, not genetics. The only people on this planet who is not Caucasoid and interact with, learn from, contribute to, intermarry with and sometimes scare Caucasoids are us. The scare part is important for they scare us as well which leads to our improvement. The main reason why modern Northeast Asia exists is that the folks back in 1850 were afraid of extermination by Europeans.

Given how I live in Europe, I can tell you that our infrastructure is doing pretty well in general, thank you very much.

Sure since Europe is demographically very different from America which leads to much higher levels of social unity. No matter what propagandists say the level of tribalism between numerous Caucasoid groups, Syrian and Iraqi refugees included, is definitely not remotely as strong as tribalism between Sub-Saharan Africans and non-Sub-Saharan Africans. No matter what people say about no-go zones we don’t exactly observe these zones causing COVID spread or something.

I would assume that homogeneous towns and cities in Europe such as Prague should be pretty good places.

[-Astoria-]

Given how I live in Europe, I can tell you that our infrastructure is doing pretty well in general, thank you very much.

Sure since Europe is demographically very different from America which leads to much higher levels of social unity. No matter what propagandists say the level of tribalism between numerous Caucasoid groups, Syrian and Iraqi refugees included, is definitely not remotely as strong as tribalism between Sub-Saharan Africans and non-Sub-Saharan Africans. No matter what people say about no-go zones we don’t exactly observe these zones causing COVID spread or something.

That is, assuming that said "zones" exist.

[Feline Goetland]

Sure since Europe is demographically very different from America which leads to much higher levels of social unity. No matter what propagandists say the level of tribalism between numerous Caucasoid groups, Syrian and Iraqi refugees included, is definitely not remotely as strong as tribalism between Sub-Saharan Africans and non-Sub-Saharan Africans. No matter what people say about no-go zones we don’t exactly observe these zones causing COVID spread or something.

That is, assuming that said "zones" exist.

Yeah. In practice they either don’t exist or they exist but are not like Detroit otherwise COVID rule enforcement would have been impossible leading to these areas being long-term COVID hotspots spreading to the rest of the country/continent.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

You seem to underestimate the ability for culture to be shaped by the relative wealth of the whole.

The South isn't very rich, in fact it's mostly rural. That's probably why their culture isn't so heavy on education, since they weren't very rich to begin with and were forced to rely on plantation work. If that had changed (because let's face it-- why would newly freed slaves put others back to low pay service?), then the culture does too.

Societal wealth and how rich a culture is determines and shapes a culture. That's why most American immigrant cultures do just fine and are (relatively) wealthy, they have no barriers preventing them from shaping the life they want, including a life of education. By contrast, American blacks were held back by the system until the 1960s and continue to struggle. All because we didn't give them the means to educate themselves in the first place.

Also consider for a moment how blacks were banned from education in the South even after the Civil War, only contributing further to their decline into poverty. Even after they stopped being banned, they were purposefully segregated from whites and ended up with worse quality education, leading to the problems they face today.

Hmm do you think early immigrants from Ireland, Poland and Japan brought tons of rubles, yen etc to the New World or something? Using your logic descendants of Russian Jewish emigre who fled from Russia must be very uneducated because when they first arrived at NYC they didn’t have lots of money..

Let me rephrase what I said since it's clear you did not fully understand my logic.

Access to education is important. Period. That is all I'm really trying to say. Wealth is part of that problem, but access is too.

And no, I don't think early European immigrants brought tons of money to the New World. Neither did blacks have any money to their name. The difference is that European immigrants had the ability to become rich and therefore afford a proper education.

For example, Irish communities started out poor when they first immigrated, unable to get any jobs. However, Irish community leaders improved the wealth and lives of Irishmen so they could afford to get an education and become wealthy.

Blacks not only were denied the right to education, but were blocked from becoming wealthy at all when they were forced to return to practical slavery post-Civil War.

And by the way, I only talked about wealth in the context of education, so your rebuttal doesn't hold up on that front either.

Now do you understand what I mean?

[Feline Goetland]

Hmm do you think early immigrants from Ireland, Poland and Japan brought tons of rubles, yen etc to the New World or something? Using your logic descendants of Russian Jewish emigre who fled from Russia must be very uneducated because when they first arrived at NYC they didn’t have lots of money..

Let me rephrase what I said since it's clear you did not fully understand my logic.

Access to education is important. Period. That is all I'm really trying to say. Wealth is part of that problem, but access is too.

And no, I don't think early European immigrants brought tons of money to the New World. Neither did blacks have any money to their name. The difference is that European immigrants had the ability to become rich and therefore afford a proper education.

For example, Irish communities started out poor when they first immigrated, unable to get any jobs. However, Irish community leaders improved the wealth and lives of Irishmen so they could afford to get an education and become wealthy.

Blacks not only were denied the right to education, but were blocked from becoming wealthy at all when they were forced to return to practical slavery post-Civil War.

And by the way, I only talked about wealth in the context of education, so your rebuttal doesn't hold up on that front either.

Now do you understand what I mean?

Why did Japanese immigrants have the ability to be rich then?

Hint: The existence of Japan and its lobbying definitely helped a lot both before and after WWII. It was only during WWII was association with Japan harmful. Nobody wants to unnecessarily offend Japan by treating Japanese people like shit. There is really no domestic politics separate from international politics.

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

Yes, why shouldn’t it?

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Why did Japanese immigrants have the ability to be rich then?

Irrelevant question that I already answered in the very post you quoted.

Hint: The existence of Japan and its lobbying definitely helped a lot both before and after WWII. It was only during WWII was association with Japan harmful. Nobody wants to unnecessarily offend Japan by treating Japanese people like shit. There is really no domestic politics separate from international politics.

Irrelevant and attempts to dodge the points I made.

[Feline Goetland]

Why did Japanese immigrants have the ability to be rich then?

Irrelevant question that I already answered in the very post you quoted.

Hint: The existence of Japan and its lobbying definitely helped a lot both before and after WWII. It was only during WWII was association with Japan harmful. Nobody wants to unnecessarily offend Japan by treating Japanese people like shit. There is really no domestic politics separate from international politics.

Irrelevant and attempts to dodge the points I made.

I didn’t know that Japan is in Europe.