Shall China exist?

[Nilrahrarfan]

I already explained it. European countries are at least good towards Europeans of the same ethnicity. Ideally a state should be nice to everyone. If this can not be achieved at least a state should be nice towards its ruling ethnic group (and that everyone needs to get an ethnostate to ensure good treatment). China is even worse.

Yeah, supporting ethnostates? Get the fuck outta here with the racist rhetoric

Remember: Everyone's a bit racist.

[A Thousand Islands]

Breaking China apart wouldn't suddenly make them less oppressive. That being said, I would support the freedom of certain parts of China, like Tibet and Hong Kong as well as the return of the ROC as China's government.

[Feline Goetland]

Breaking China apart wouldn't suddenly make them less oppressive. That being said, I would support the freedom of certain parts of China, like Tibet and Hong Kong as well as the return of the ROC as China's government.

It actually will since not all parts of China are equally oppressive. It is obvious that I was born in a less oppressive part and hence got really mad when someone tried to homogenize China. My proposal of abolishing China was never for the sake of the act of doing it. Instead it is to protect a social liberal minority from a social conservative majority.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Breaking China apart wouldn't suddenly make them less oppressive. That being said, I would support the freedom of certain parts of China, like Tibet and Hong Kong as well as the return of the ROC as China's government.

It actually will since not all parts of China are equally oppressive. It is obvious that I was born in a less oppressive part and hence got really mad when someone tried to homogenize China. My proposal of abolishing China was never for the sake of the act of doing it. Instead it is to protect a social liberal minority from a social conservative majority.

No, your idea is to balkanize China into chronically unstable Manchukuo-like states with artificial ethnic identities, culturally genocide native Chinese culture and replace it with Ashkenazim culture. And apparently you're somehow supposed to get a democratic China out of all that.

Oh, and a healthy dose of anti-northerner racism sprinkled into all that.

[Feline Goetland]

It actually will since not all parts of China are equally oppressive. It is obvious that I was born in a less oppressive part and hence got really mad when someone tried to homogenize China. My proposal of abolishing China was never for the sake of the act of doing it. Instead it is to protect a social liberal minority from a social conservative majority.

No, your idea is to balkanize China into chronically unstable Manchukuo-like states with artificial ethnic identities, culturally genocide native Chinese culture and replace it with Ashkenazim culture. And apparently you're somehow supposed to get a democratic China out of all that.

Oh, and a healthy dose of anti-northerner racism sprinkled into all that.

Do you know that Chinese people actually wanted to enter, not leave Manchukuo? Despite Unit 731 and other atrocities it was still better for a Chinese person to live under Japanese rule compared to Chinese rule.

It is not as unstable as you think. All I really want is the liberal minded parts of China getting some excuse to further socially liberalize before the rest of China.

Northern Chinese isn’t a race and criticizing their culture is no more racist than secular Israelis criticizing Haredim. They are basically a group of competent people misled by Russia hence they manifest Russian traits instead of southern Chinese, Ashkenazi-like ones. Just like Ashkenazis didn’t like to live under Russian rule, I don’t like a Northeast Asian version of Russians ruling over my home region. Israel and Russia do not mix because all it leads to is Russia screwing up Israel.

[Sao Nova Europa]

China probably needs to move towards ROC-style liberal democracy, but in a gradual manner. We've all seen what rapid liberalization can do to countries that don't have liberal traditions. Gradually, though, it is certainly possible. India has a similar population, in size, and is a liberal democracy. Manchuria and Inner Mongolia should remain part of that China, considering that they are mostly populated by Chinese. As for Xinjiang and Tibet, there should be referendums though I do not see even a democratic China conceding such territories. At the very least, they should respect the culture and rights of Uighurs and Tibetans.

Of course, such a change should be brought by the Chinese people themselves, not by outside intervention (much less one that seeks to 'Balkanize' China, as it probably would have the opposite effect - don't think the average Chinese would hail such an intervention).

I have a dislike for CCP and would want to see its tyranny end, but I have to admit that the wholesale dismissal of thousands of years of Chinese civilization, culture and history is something which I cannot understand. Or rather I do... It reminds of the attitude of a very, very few (fortunately) Greeks who are (correctly) frustrated with the corruption and incompetence in Greece and admire Western countries (which is desirable) but go to the extreme of loathing their own culture, blaming everything Greek for Greece's current woes, dismissing Greece's history and civilization and having an inferiority complex towards Westerners (though even that extremely small minority wouldn't go so far as calling for the abolition of their own country).

The OP reminds me of those persons. Have lots of good ideas and correct answers, but their extremism and self-loathing becomes extremely counterproductive.

[Feline Goetland]

China probably needs to move towards ROC-style liberal democracy, but in a gradual manner. We've all seen what rapid liberalization can do to countries that don't have liberal traditions. Gradually, though, it is certainly possible. India has a similar population, in size, and is a liberal democracy. Manchuria and Inner Mongolia should remain part of that China, considering that they are mostly populated by Chinese. As for Xinjiang and Tibet, there should be referendums though I do not see even a democratic China conceding such territories. At the very least, they should respect the culture and rights of Uighurs and Tibetans.

Of course, such a change should be brought by the Chinese people themselves, not by outside intervention (much less one that seeks to 'Balkanize' China, as it probably would have the opposite effect - don't think the average Chinese would hail such an intervention).

I have a dislike for CCP and would want to see its tyranny end, but I have to admit that the wholesale dismissal of thousands of years of Chinese civilization, culture and history is something which I cannot understand. Or rather I do... It reminds of the attitude of a very, very few (fortunately) Greeks who are (correctly) frustrated with the corruption and incompetence in Greece and admire Western countries (which is desirable) but go to the extreme of loathing their own culture, blaming everything Greek for Greece's current woes, dismissing Greece's history and civilization and having an inferiority complex towards Westerners (though even that extremely small minority wouldn't go so far as calling for the abolition of their own country).

The OP reminds me of those persons. Have lots of good ideas and correct answers, but their extremism and self-loathing becomes extremely counterproductive.

Well, it is pretty obvious that I have real problems with the dominant northern Chinese statist and continental traditions and instead prefer a lifestyle more similar to the southern Chinese merchants in Malaysia and the Philippines as well as the First World, liberal areas of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After realizing that most northern Chinese actually like what I hate and hate what I like I just have to advocate for my home region to secede from China because otherwise they will drag my relatives who are still there into a stupid and disastrous WWIII or another Mao era.

I like myself, my home town and my race (Northeast Asian). There is a reason why I have a Japanese vehicle and am happy when both even rural whites and ghetto blacks in America drive Japanese vehicles. I’m always more than thrilled when Japanese folks get another Nobel Prize laureate or some new research paper in any field has many Northeast Asian authors unless they are all PRC people in which case I worry about PRC encroachment in STEM. I have a realistic understanding of the position of my own race on this planet. We don’t contribute as much as Ashkenazis or Germanic peoples (hence all my proposed reforms are about “be Ashkenazi” and “be Anglo” since I’m obsessed with achieving parity with them). At the same time it is completely absurd for a Slav or some other Balkans person to look down upon us. Japan and South Korea are comparable to second tier European countries like Spain and Italy in terms of tech and the economy. Taiwan is not as good but still comparable to Portugal. PRC is somewhere in East Europe in terms of tech and the economy between Serbia and Lithuania depending on which factors we care about.

I don’t like China or more precisely the northern Chinese statist tradition. When China was divided during chaos the smaller kingdoms in coastal southern China usually did pretty well economically and culturally.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

But again, the Holocaust lasted for a decade. Yes, it killed a lot of people (in one of the most tragic and horrific mass killings of the 20th century), but I'd argue it was truly too short to unleash it's full horrors upon the Jewish people. 6 million Jewish men and women died, and only 2.8 million lived. However, that same group was incredibly lucky in having this monstrous system not continue. Had it continued, Ashkenazis truly wouldn't be contributing as much to the world as they do now, in their fantastic economic position.

Well let’s assume that Hitler actually won. What would happen is that continental Ashkenazi Jewry would actually be exterminated but those in the New World and Australia will continue to do better than the majority. Moreover even the Axis partners of Hitler, Japan, Italy, Bulgaria etc did not have much interest about murdering Jews. That’s really a mostly German and Romanian monstrosity. So even in that scenario Ashkenazis being a market dominant minority would still continue while continental Europe including Germany would suffer from even more long-term consequences of absence of Jews.

Antisemitism is truly a form of self-harm. I mean, we can even try to quantify the harm caused by antisemitism to antisemites due to reduced GDP and reduced scientific output.

Yeah. Suppressing other cultures in general is a form of self-harm. Intellectuals can come from all cultures, and excluding one hurts the entire nation as a whole.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

China probably needs to move towards ROC-style liberal democracy, but in a gradual manner. We've all seen what rapid liberalization can do to countries that don't have liberal traditions. Gradually, though, it is certainly possible. India has a similar population, in size, and is a liberal democracy. Manchuria and Inner Mongolia should remain part of that China, considering that they are mostly populated by Chinese. As for Xinjiang and Tibet, there should be referendums though I do not see even a democratic China conceding such territories. At the very least, they should respect the culture and rights of Uighurs and Tibetans.

Of course, such a change should be brought by the Chinese people themselves, not by outside intervention (much less one that seeks to 'Balkanize' China, as it probably would have the opposite effect - don't think the average Chinese would hail such an intervention).

I have a dislike for CCP and would want to see its tyranny end, but I have to admit that the wholesale dismissal of thousands of years of Chinese civilization, culture and history is something which I cannot understand. Or rather I do... It reminds of the attitude of a very, very few (fortunately) Greeks who are (correctly) frustrated with the corruption and incompetence in Greece and admire Western countries (which is desirable) but go to the extreme of loathing their own culture, blaming everything Greek for Greece's current woes, dismissing Greece's history and civilization and having an inferiority complex towards Westerners (though even that extremely small minority wouldn't go so far as calling for the abolition of their own country).

The OP reminds me of those persons. Have lots of good ideas and correct answers, but their extremism and self-loathing becomes extremely counterproductive.

Well, it is pretty obvious that I have real problems with the dominant northern Chinese statist and continental traditions and instead prefer a lifestyle more similar to the southern Chinese merchants in Malaysia and the Philippines as well as the First World, liberal areas of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After realizing that most northern Chinese actually like what I hate and hate what I like I just have to advocate for my home region to secede from China because otherwise they will drag my relatives who are still there into a stupid and disastrous WWIII or another Mao era.

I like myself, my home town and my race (Northeast Asian). There is a reason why I have a Japanese vehicle and am happy when both even rural whites and ghetto blacks in America drive Japanese vehicles. I’m always more than thrilled when Japanese folks get another Nobel Prize laureate or some new research paper in any field has many Northeast Asian authors unless they are all PRC people in which case I worry about PRC encroachment in STEM. I have a realistic understanding of the position of my own race on this planet. We don’t contribute as much as Ashkenazis or Germanic peoples (hence all my proposed reforms are about “be Ashkenazi” and “be Anglo” since I’m obsessed with achieving parity with them). At the same time it is completely absurd for a Slav or some other Balkans person to look down upon us. Japan and South Korea are comparable to second tier European countries like Spain and Italy in terms of tech and the economy. Taiwan is not as good but still comparable to Portugal. PRC is somewhere in East Europe in terms of tech and the economy between Serbia and Lithuania depending on which factors we care about.

I don’t like China or more precisely the northern Chinese statist tradition. When China was divided during chaos the smaller kingdoms in coastal southern China usually did pretty well economically and culturally.

Out of curiosity: Do you actually live in China? Because I've been getting the impression that your either an immigrant from China or you still live under the authoritarian CCP.

[Kowani]

No, your idea is to balkanize China into chronically unstable Manchukuo-like states with artificial ethnic identities, culturally genocide native Chinese culture and replace it with Ashkenazim culture. And apparently you're somehow supposed to get a democratic China out of all that.

Oh, and a healthy dose of anti-northerner racism sprinkled into all that.

Do you know that Chinese people actually wanted to enter, not leave Manchukuo? Despite Unit 731 and other atrocities it was still better for a Chinese person to live under Japanese rule compared to Chinese rule.

It is not as unstable as you think. All I really want is the liberal minded parts of China getting some excuse to further socially liberalize before the rest of China.

Northern Chinese isn’t a race and criticizing their culture is no more racist than secular Israelis criticizing Haredim. They are basically a group of competent people misled by Russia hence they manifest Russian traits instead of southern Chinese, Ashkenazi-like ones. Just like Ashkenazis didn’t like to live under Russian rule, I don’t like a Northeast Asian version of Russians ruling over my home region. Israel and Russia do not mix because all it leads to is Russia screwing up Israel.

…Isn’t Henan literally the seat of practically all Chinese civilization?
Ah, yes. Yes it is.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

No, your idea is to balkanize China into chronically unstable Manchukuo-like states with artificial ethnic identities, culturally genocide native Chinese culture and replace it with Ashkenazim culture. And apparently you're somehow supposed to get a democratic China out of all that.

Oh, and a healthy dose of anti-northerner racism sprinkled into all that.

Do you know that Chinese people actually wanted to enter, not leave Manchukuo? Despite Unit 731 and other atrocities it was still better for a Chinese person to live under Japanese rule compared to Chinese rule.

It is not as unstable as you think. All I really want is the liberal minded parts of China getting some excuse to further socially liberalize before the rest of China.

Northern Chinese isn’t a race and criticizing their culture is no more racist than secular Israelis criticizing Haredim. They are basically a group of competent people misled by Russia hence they manifest Russian traits instead of southern Chinese, Ashkenazi-like ones. Just like Ashkenazis didn’t like to live under Russian rule, I don’t like a Northeast Asian version of Russians ruling over my home region. Israel and Russia do not mix because all it leads to is Russia screwing up Israel.

Brb, I'm gonna kidnap some Russians and drop them off in Tel Aviv.

[Feline Goetland]

Well, it is pretty obvious that I have real problems with the dominant northern Chinese statist and continental traditions and instead prefer a lifestyle more similar to the southern Chinese merchants in Malaysia and the Philippines as well as the First World, liberal areas of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After realizing that most northern Chinese actually like what I hate and hate what I like I just have to advocate for my home region to secede from China because otherwise they will drag my relatives who are still there into a stupid and disastrous WWIII or another Mao era.

I like myself, my home town and my race (Northeast Asian). There is a reason why I have a Japanese vehicle and am happy when both even rural whites and ghetto blacks in America drive Japanese vehicles. I’m always more than thrilled when Japanese folks get another Nobel Prize laureate or some new research paper in any field has many Northeast Asian authors unless they are all PRC people in which case I worry about PRC encroachment in STEM. I have a realistic understanding of the position of my own race on this planet. We don’t contribute as much as Ashkenazis or Germanic peoples (hence all my proposed reforms are about “be Ashkenazi” and “be Anglo” since I’m obsessed with achieving parity with them). At the same time it is completely absurd for a Slav or some other Balkans person to look down upon us. Japan and South Korea are comparable to second tier European countries like Spain and Italy in terms of tech and the economy. Taiwan is not as good but still comparable to Portugal. PRC is somewhere in East Europe in terms of tech and the economy between Serbia and Lithuania depending on which factors we care about.

I don’t like China or more precisely the northern Chinese statist tradition. When China was divided during chaos the smaller kingdoms in coastal southern China usually did pretty well economically and culturally.

Out of curiosity: Do you actually live in China? Because I've been getting the impression that your either an immigrant from China or you still live under the authoritarian CCP.

The former lol. I’m glad to be free from China haha.

[Feline Goetland]

Do you know that Chinese people actually wanted to enter, not leave Manchukuo? Despite Unit 731 and other atrocities it was still better for a Chinese person to live under Japanese rule compared to Chinese rule.

It is not as unstable as you think. All I really want is the liberal minded parts of China getting some excuse to further socially liberalize before the rest of China.

Northern Chinese isn’t a race and criticizing their culture is no more racist than secular Israelis criticizing Haredim. They are basically a group of competent people misled by Russia hence they manifest Russian traits instead of southern Chinese, Ashkenazi-like ones. Just like Ashkenazis didn’t like to live under Russian rule, I don’t like a Northeast Asian version of Russians ruling over my home region. Israel and Russia do not mix because all it leads to is Russia screwing up Israel.

…Isn’t Henan literally the seat of practically all Chinese civilization?
Ah, yes. Yes it is.

Do you realize that it is a pretty impoverished place now? The so-called “Chinese civilization” was forced on my ancestors anyway. We had native civilization to the south of Yangtze River before China came, developed rice irrigation before them and have been having more resources than them for a long time. Why shall I be forced to obey northern Chinese statist civilization? Confucius was further away from us than Paris was from London. I don’t have much to do with China proper, properly defined as areas where people whose mother tongue is Mandarin.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

China probably needs to move towards ROC-style liberal democracy, but in a gradual manner. We've all seen what rapid liberalization can do to countries that don't have liberal traditions. Gradually, though, it is certainly possible. India has a similar population, in size, and is a liberal democracy. Manchuria and Inner Mongolia should remain part of that China, considering that they are mostly populated by Chinese. As for Xinjiang and Tibet, there should be referendums though I do not see even a democratic China conceding such territories. At the very least, they should respect the culture and rights of Uighurs and Tibetans.

Of course, such a change should be brought by the Chinese people themselves, not by outside intervention (much less one that seeks to 'Balkanize' China, as it probably would have the opposite effect - don't think the average Chinese would hail such an intervention).

I have a dislike for CCP and would want to see its tyranny end, but I have to admit that the wholesale dismissal of thousands of years of Chinese civilization, culture and history is something which I cannot understand. Or rather I do... It reminds of the attitude of a very, very few (fortunately) Greeks who are (correctly) frustrated with the corruption and incompetence in Greece and admire Western countries (which is desirable) but go to the extreme of loathing their own culture, blaming everything Greek for Greece's current woes, dismissing Greece's history and civilization and having an inferiority complex towards Westerners (though even that extremely small minority wouldn't go so far as calling for the abolition of their own country).

The OP reminds me of those persons. Have lots of good ideas and correct answers, but their extremism and self-loathing becomes extremely counterproductive.

Well, it is pretty obvious that I have real problems with the dominant northern Chinese statist and continental traditions and instead prefer a lifestyle more similar to the southern Chinese merchants in Malaysia and the Philippines as well as the First World, liberal areas of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After realizing that most northern Chinese actually like what I hate and hate what I like I just have to advocate for my home region to secede from China because otherwise they will drag my relatives who are still there into a stupid and disastrous WWIII or another Mao era.

I like myself, my home town and my race (Northeast Asian). There is a reason why I have a Japanese vehicle and am happy when both even rural whites and ghetto blacks in America drive Japanese vehicles. I’m always more than thrilled when Japanese folks get another Nobel Prize laureate or some new research paper in any field has many Northeast Asian authors unless they are all PRC people in which case I worry about PRC encroachment in STEM. I have a realistic understanding of the position of my own race on this planet. We don’t contribute as much as Ashkenazis or Germanic peoples (hence all my proposed reforms are about “be Ashkenazi” and “be Anglo” since I’m obsessed with achieving parity with them). At the same time it is completely absurd for a Slav or some other Balkans person to look down upon us. Japan and South Korea are comparable to second tier European countries like Spain and Italy in terms of tech and the economy. Taiwan is not as good but still comparable to Portugal. PRC is somewhere in East Europe in terms of tech and the economy between Serbia and Lithuania depending on which factors we care about.

I don’t like China or more precisely the northern Chinese statist tradition. When China was divided during chaos the smaller kingdoms in coastal southern China usually did pretty well economically and culturally.

Got evidence for this northern "statist" tradition? All this feels like is an attempt to reject any and all responsibility for China's historical baggage on your part by trying to mark "China" as being a northern Chinese creation.

You want there to be some strong north-south divide that stretches back to the Qin, you want the north to be bad and the south to be good. But, your argument is simply not supported by historical fact.

Your whole argument is based on incorrectly attributing inter-racial disparities to "culture," and an ardent desire for your theory to be right, to the point that you essentially end up making your own history.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

…Isn’t Henan literally the seat of practically all Chinese civilization?
Ah, yes. Yes it is.

Do you realize that it is a pretty impoverished place now? The so-called “Chinese civilization” was forced on my ancestors anyway. We had native civilization to the south of Yangtze River before China came, developed rice irrigation before them and have been having more resources than them for a long time. Why shall I be forced to obey northern Chinese statist civilization? Confucius was further away from us than Paris was from London. I don’t have much to do with China proper, properly defined as areas where people whose mother tongue is Mandarin.

This is what I'm talking about when I say you're making up history. The fact is, any culture that the south ever had that was not part of the larger Han culture is long gone, under the weight of nearly two millenia.

The level of historical revisionism you're using is on par with Mussolini's Roman revanchism.

[Feline Goetland]

Well, it is pretty obvious that I have real problems with the dominant northern Chinese statist and continental traditions and instead prefer a lifestyle more similar to the southern Chinese merchants in Malaysia and the Philippines as well as the First World, liberal areas of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After realizing that most northern Chinese actually like what I hate and hate what I like I just have to advocate for my home region to secede from China because otherwise they will drag my relatives who are still there into a stupid and disastrous WWIII or another Mao era.

I like myself, my home town and my race (Northeast Asian). There is a reason why I have a Japanese vehicle and am happy when both even rural whites and ghetto blacks in America drive Japanese vehicles. I’m always more than thrilled when Japanese folks get another Nobel Prize laureate or some new research paper in any field has many Northeast Asian authors unless they are all PRC people in which case I worry about PRC encroachment in STEM. I have a realistic understanding of the position of my own race on this planet. We don’t contribute as much as Ashkenazis or Germanic peoples (hence all my proposed reforms are about “be Ashkenazi” and “be Anglo” since I’m obsessed with achieving parity with them). At the same time it is completely absurd for a Slav or some other Balkans person to look down upon us. Japan and South Korea are comparable to second tier European countries like Spain and Italy in terms of tech and the economy. Taiwan is not as good but still comparable to Portugal. PRC is somewhere in East Europe in terms of tech and the economy between Serbia and Lithuania depending on which factors we care about.

I don’t like China or more precisely the northern Chinese statist tradition. When China was divided during chaos the smaller kingdoms in coastal southern China usually did pretty well economically and culturally.

Got evidence for this northern "statist" tradition? All this feels like is an attempt to reject any and all responsibility for China's historical baggage on your part by trying to mark "China" as being a northern Chinese creation.

You want there to be some strong north-south divide that stretches back to the Qin, you want the north to be bad and the south to be good. But, your argument is simply not supported by historical fact.

Your whole argument is based on incorrectly attributing inter-racial disparities to "culture," and an ardent desire for your theory to be right, to the point that you essentially end up making your own history.

What exact crime any historical iteration of China commited mostly against its own subjects is Suzhou and Guangzhou responsible for? Did people from these cities order massacres of Dzungars or Hui Muslims? No. It is the statist northern China and its illiberal Confucian and statist traditions that are responsible for these things. I would rather have another Kingdom of Wu, Kingdom of Wuyue or its equivalents in the modern world than having to give a shit about Beijing (or Chang’an, Luoyang, Kaifeng or some other statist center).

Even communists from places such as Zhejiang and Guangdong are less evil than communists from Northern China. Many people from my area still like Jiang Zemin who despite persecuting the Falun Gong did at least open China up and allowed it to develop. It is Xi Jinping who is terminally intolerable.

[Feline Goetland]

Do you realize that it is a pretty impoverished place now? The so-called “Chinese civilization” was forced on my ancestors anyway. We had native civilization to the south of Yangtze River before China came, developed rice irrigation before them and have been having more resources than them for a long time. Why shall I be forced to obey northern Chinese statist civilization? Confucius was further away from us than Paris was from London. I don’t have much to do with China proper, properly defined as areas where people whose mother tongue is Mandarin.

This is what I'm talking about when I say you're making up history. The fact is, any culture that the south ever had that was not part of the larger Han culture is long gone, under the weight of nearly two millenia.

The level of historical revisionism you're using is on par with Mussolini's Roman revanchism.

It’s not really gone.

Even northern Chinese themselves admit that and their bashing of us looks suspiciously similar to antisemitism. Speaking of the “unmanly and cunning” stereotypes lol. Why do I feel that Beijing is really just an East Asian Moscow..What’s Luoyang then? Maybe Vladimir?

People from my area are interested in knowledge and trade, not the statist monstrosity of Beijing. There is a good reason why many folks from my area are not interested in sending their kids to Peking University and Tsinghua University in general.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

What exact crime any historical iteration of China commited mostly against its own subjects is Suzhou and Guangzhou responsible for? Did people from these cities order massacres of Dzungars or Hui Muslims? No. It is the statist northern China and its illiberal Confucian and statist traditions that are responsible for these things. I would rather have another Kingdom of Wu, Kingdom of Wuyue or its equivalents in the modern world than having to give a shit about Beijing (or Chang’an, Luoyang, Kaifeng or some other statist center).

Southern China is and was Confucian and Han, like it or not. Stop with this historical revisionism.

I don't want to get into a debate about what historical atrocities North and South China did, but let me just point out that the southern kingdoms weren't exactly blameless during the various periods of Chinese colonialization of Vietnam.

Even communists from places such as Zhejiang and Guangdong are less evil than communists from Northern China. Many people from my area still like Jiang Zemin who despite persecuting the Falun Gong did at least open China up and allowed it to develop. It is Xi Jinping who is terminally intolerable.

Once again, no evidence of this. Just more casual racism.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

China probably needs to move towards ROC-style liberal democracy, but in a gradual manner. We've all seen what rapid liberalization can do to countries that don't have liberal traditions. Gradually, though, it is certainly possible. India has a similar population, in size, and is a liberal democracy. Manchuria and Inner Mongolia should remain part of that China, considering that they are mostly populated by Chinese. As for Xinjiang and Tibet, there should be referendums though I do not see even a democratic China conceding such territories. At the very least, they should respect the culture and rights of Uighurs and Tibetans.

Of course, such a change should be brought by the Chinese people themselves, not by outside intervention (much less one that seeks to 'Balkanize' China, as it probably would have the opposite effect - don't think the average Chinese would hail such an intervention).

I have a dislike for CCP and would want to see its tyranny end, but I have to admit that the wholesale dismissal of thousands of years of Chinese civilization, culture and history is something which I cannot understand. Or rather I do... It reminds of the attitude of a very, very few (fortunately) Greeks who are (correctly) frustrated with the corruption and incompetence in Greece and admire Western countries (which is desirable) but go to the extreme of loathing their own culture, blaming everything Greek for Greece's current woes, dismissing Greece's history and civilization and having an inferiority complex towards Westerners (though even that extremely small minority wouldn't go so far as calling for the abolition of their own country).

The OP reminds me of those persons. Have lots of good ideas and correct answers, but their extremism and self-loathing becomes extremely counterproductive.

Well, it is pretty obvious that I have real problems with the dominant northern Chinese statist and continental traditions and instead prefer a lifestyle more similar to the southern Chinese merchants in Malaysia and the Philippines as well as the First World, liberal areas of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After realizing that most northern Chinese actually like what I hate and hate what I like I just have to advocate for my home region to secede from China because otherwise they will drag my relatives who are still there into a stupid and disastrous WWIII or another Mao era.

I like myself, my home town and my race (Northeast Asian). There is a reason why I have a Japanese vehicle and am happy when both even rural whites and ghetto blacks in America drive Japanese vehicles. I’m always more than thrilled when Japanese folks get another Nobel Prize laureate or some new research paper in any field has many Northeast Asian authors unless they are all PRC people in which case I worry about PRC encroachment in STEM. I have a realistic understanding of the position of my own race on this planet. We don’t contribute as much as Ashkenazis or Germanic peoples (hence all my proposed reforms are about “be Ashkenazi” and “be Anglo” since I’m obsessed with achieving parity with them). At the same time it is completely absurd for a Slav or some other Balkans person to look down upon us. Japan and South Korea are comparable to second tier European countries like Spain and Italy in terms of tech and the economy. Taiwan is not as good but still comparable to Portugal. PRC is somewhere in East Europe in terms of tech and the economy between Serbia and Lithuania depending on which factors we care about.

I don’t like China or more precisely the northern Chinese statist tradition. When China was divided during chaos the smaller kingdoms in coastal southern China usually did pretty well economically and culturally.

Inconvenient truth: Germanic people were living in squalor and barbarism until about 400 years ago. Their success today is simply a product of the times and they are not a superior race.

No race is superior. Race doesn't even exist among humans.

[Feline Goetland]

Well, it is pretty obvious that I have real problems with the dominant northern Chinese statist and continental traditions and instead prefer a lifestyle more similar to the southern Chinese merchants in Malaysia and the Philippines as well as the First World, liberal areas of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After realizing that most northern Chinese actually like what I hate and hate what I like I just have to advocate for my home region to secede from China because otherwise they will drag my relatives who are still there into a stupid and disastrous WWIII or another Mao era.

I like myself, my home town and my race (Northeast Asian). There is a reason why I have a Japanese vehicle and am happy when both even rural whites and ghetto blacks in America drive Japanese vehicles. I’m always more than thrilled when Japanese folks get another Nobel Prize laureate or some new research paper in any field has many Northeast Asian authors unless they are all PRC people in which case I worry about PRC encroachment in STEM. I have a realistic understanding of the position of my own race on this planet. We don’t contribute as much as Ashkenazis or Germanic peoples (hence all my proposed reforms are about “be Ashkenazi” and “be Anglo” since I’m obsessed with achieving parity with them). At the same time it is completely absurd for a Slav or some other Balkans person to look down upon us. Japan and South Korea are comparable to second tier European countries like Spain and Italy in terms of tech and the economy. Taiwan is not as good but still comparable to Portugal. PRC is somewhere in East Europe in terms of tech and the economy between Serbia and Lithuania depending on which factors we care about.

I don’t like China or more precisely the northern Chinese statist tradition. When China was divided during chaos the smaller kingdoms in coastal southern China usually did pretty well economically and culturally.

Inconvenient truth: Germanic people were living in squalor and barbarism until about 400 years ago. Their success today is simply a product of the times and they are not a superior race.

No race is superior. Race doesn't even exist among humans.

That’s not even true. England had Magna Carta back in 1245 and Hanseatic League existed a long time ago. Of course if Northeast Asians had continuous contact with Europeans back then maybe we would have developed something similar at least in Japan but sadly it didn’t happen til Britain showed up in the 19th century. As for the Jewish people even Tacitus was bitter cuz they had money. Jews were objectively awesome, are objectively awesome and will be objectively awesome because they are Jews. There are only three kinds of people related to awesomeness of Jews, namely those who admit it, those ignorant of it and those bitter about it (these people are known as “antisemites” for they claim that Jewish success is due to conspiracy instead of inherent greatness of Jews, that is, antisemites are actually people with a strong inferior complex who already see the facts about Jewish greatness but can not emotionally accept it).

Egalitarianism is a comfortable lie. It’s probably better for you to claim to be a glorious Lebanese whose tribe gave birth to alphabets, Tyre, Sidon, Carthage, numerous prominent business people in Americas and Africa etc instead. From Phoenicians to Carlos Slim. The land of cedars was great, is great and will be great. Your problem seems to be that you don’t identify as either white or Lebanese, let alone both. You have been brainwashed into thinking that you are not as glorious as the Lebanese merchants in Brazil, Mexico, Nigeria and America. However that’s wrong and should be corrected.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

As for the Jewish people even Tacitus was bitter cuz they had money. Jews were awesome, are awesome and will be awesome because they are Jews.

The reason they had money was because Christianity used to have a religious injunction against lending at interest, so Jews became money lenders/loan sharks.

Racists like you tend to shape their worldview to fit their racism. Based on your racism, your conclusion is perfectly logical, because you have twisted history to fit your own ends.

This is the danger of racism- you end up trying to unironically justify cultural genocide on an online forum.

[Feline Goetland]

As for the Jewish people even Tacitus was bitter cuz they had money. Jews were awesome, are awesome and will be awesome because they are Jews.

The reason they had money was because Christianity used to have a religious injunction against lending at interest, so Jews became money lenders/loan sharks.

Racists like you tend to shape their worldview to fit their racism. Based on your racism, your conclusion is perfectly logical, because you have twisted history to fit your own ends.

This is the danger of racism- you end up trying to unironically justify cultural genocide on an online forum.

Tacitus wrote about the situation before Christianity became dominant. It is funny that even in long paragraphs of antisemitic ranting (just like in Der Sturmer) we can usually find useful stuff that slipped through.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ta ... ews-110-ce

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

It’s not really gone.

Wow, great rebuttal. 10/10

Even northern Chinese themselves admit that and their bashing of us looks suspiciously similar to antisemitism. Speaking of the “unmanly and cunning” stereotypes lol. Why do I feel that Beijing is really just an East Asian Moscow..What’s Luoyang then? Maybe Vladimir?

People from my area are interested in knowledge and trade, not the statist monstrosity of Beijing. There is a good reason why many folks from my area are not interested in sending their kids to Peking University and Tsinghua University in general.

I don't know if you can see the hypocrisy in you continually bashing northerners but then accusing northerners of bashing the south.

You keep trying to justify your racism with more racialist stuff like the dumbass concept of "sino-statism" you contrived.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

It’s not really gone.

Wow, great rebuttal. 10/10

Even northern Chinese themselves admit that and their bashing of us looks suspiciously similar to antisemitism. Speaking of the “unmanly and cunning” stereotypes lol. Why do I feel that Beijing is really just an East Asian Moscow..What’s Luoyang then? Maybe Vladimir?

I don't know if you can see the hypocrisy in you continually bashing northerners but then accusing northerners of bashing the south.

You keep trying to justify your racism with more racialist stuff like the dumbass concept of "sino-statism" you contrived.

"The most degraded out of other races, scorning their national beliefs, brought to them their contributions and presents. This augmented the wealth of the Jews"-Tacitus

Doesn't actually say they were wealthy.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Out of curiosity: Do you actually live in China? Because I've been getting the impression that your either an immigrant from China or you still live under the authoritarian CCP.

The former lol. I’m glad to be free from China haha.

Then why do you want to balkanize China? If you Southerners hate Beijing's authoritarianism, then the Northerners are no different.

This is starting to give me an awful lot of Civil War vibes, with the South claiming it was the "War of Northern Aggression," and whatnot.