Shall China exist?

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Why didn’t antisemitism in general and the Holocaust in particular prevent Ashkenazis from achieving more than Europeans and Sephardic Jews from achieving more than their Muslim neighbors per capita? I mean Israel should have been the poorest and least functional place on this entire planet if your theory is factually accurate since there are nobody on this planet who suffers from more unjust tribal violence than Jewish people. Did Israelis scream “muh Nazis suck”, “muh environment sucks” and “muh Nasser sucks” without actually developing Israel to a First World country? Lololol. Are you saying that despite getting murdered and hated all over the planet Jewish people are actually the most privileged people on this planet? What?

Israel as a nation has been remarkably privileged economically. During the British Mandate, British policies kept the Jewish population urban and in industrial jobs, as opposed to in agriculture. West German reparations over 14 years amounted to about $110 billion, forming almost 90% of the national revenue in 1956. In the same year, private donations from American Jews amounted to $100 million. All that went into developing industrial and educational infrastructure. The 1990s also saw a massive aliyah of well-educated Soviet Jews. Not to mention the approximately $100 billion in cumulative US aid.

Of course using the same logic Warsaw should be a hellhole (it isn’t) because Germans and Russians treated Poles like shit to the point that the Holocaust caused about 10% of all Poles in Poland to perish and Nazis really destroyed Warsaw.

The 2nd Polish republic was already weak economically before the war and the Polish People's Republic made a hash of post-war recovery. So yes, Poland and Warsaw was pretty bad. But, the communist regime did establish a solid educational system that undoubtedly contributed to later Polish growth. However, in the 70s and 80s, Poland started getting massive Western loans in exchange for reforms (which didn't happen), most of which was forgiven or restructured after '89. Of course, Poland also got a bunch of development aid post-'89. The post-'89 government managed shock therapy well and was one of the first former Eastern Bloc nations to come out of the shock therapy slump. Then, Poland joined the EU in 2004 and we know what that does for economies.

The fact is, Poland did struggle for a long time after the war. Most of Poland's meteoric rise to a developed, high-tech first world country has happened in the last 28 straight years of economic growth.

Of course why exactly do Hiroshima and Nagasaki exist today as metropolises today then?

Japan's post-war economic woes ended quite quickly. It was part of the Marshall Plan and the US paid special attention to the Japanese economy since Japan was NATO's lynchpin in East Asia. To simplify logistics, a large amount of the US war materiel used in the Korean War was manufactured in Japan. The San Francisco Treaty also excused Japan from all war reparation. The SCAP also implemented effective economic reforms and later Japanese governments continued reforms after the end of the American occupation for decades. The US military presence was also a major contributor to the economy and still is on Okinawa.

Is there some magic Japanese privilege and Polish privilege out there that I’m unaware of?

Well, yes. Their economic circumstances have been shaped by outside factors that have affected them very positively, as I've enumerated above.

Hell we aren’t even Caucasoid, let alone white. Why exactly do Northeast Asians exist at all

Pretty obvious that you're a racist when you say this.

and why exactly do we run about 1/4 of the world economy , about 1/4 of the scientific output in the world according to Nature Index not counting the diaspora...????

I mean, 1/4 is pretty close to the proportion of Chinese to the world population.

I want to abolish China because I want to make these numbers closer to 1/2 since it’s shameful that we don’t have per capita parity with Ashkenazis and Germanic peoples in terms of economic and technological output, not because we as a race have nothing and have achieved nothing.

Still haven't explained why that would fix anything, but ok.

P.S. To someone born in a punch down culture like China claiming that someone is a hopeless victim is not very different from saying that “I can kill you at will”.

More overgeneralizing racism, but ok.

What’s particularly absurd is that the claim isn’t factually accurate. So I have to correct you.

What's particularly absurd is your refusal to provide evidence for a causal link between Ashkenazim culture and higher per capita STEM output, your oversimplification of history and your political ideas, which are little more than an attempt to rationalize a desire for cultural genocide actually driven by blatant racialism.




Also, "shall" does not mean "should."

[Kowani]

snip

911, I would like to report a murder.

[Feline Goetland]

Why didn’t antisemitism in general and the Holocaust in particular prevent Ashkenazis from achieving more than Europeans and Sephardic Jews from achieving more than their Muslim neighbors per capita? I mean Israel should have been the poorest and least functional place on this entire planet if your theory is factually accurate since there are nobody on this planet who suffers from more unjust tribal violence than Jewish people. Did Israelis scream “muh Nazis suck”, “muh environment sucks” and “muh Nasser sucks” without actually developing Israel to a First World country? Lololol. Are you saying that despite getting murdered and hated all over the planet Jewish people are actually the most privileged people on this planet? What?

Israel as a nation has been remarkably privileged economically. During the British Mandate, British policies kept the Jewish population urban and in industrial jobs, as opposed to in agriculture. West German reparations over 14 years amounted to about $110 billion, forming almost 90% of the national revenue in 1956. In the same year, private donations from American Jews amounted to $100 million. All that went into developing industrial and educational infrastructure. The 1990s also saw a massive aliyah of well-educated Soviet Jews. Not to mention the approximately $100 billion in cumulative US aid.

Of course using the same logic Warsaw should be a hellhole (it isn’t) because Germans and Russians treated Poles like shit to the point that the Holocaust caused about 10% of all Poles in Poland to perish and Nazis really destroyed Warsaw.

The 2nd Polish republic was already weak economically before the war and the Polish People's Republic made a hash of post-war recovery. So yes, Poland and Warsaw was pretty bad. But, the communist regime did establish a solid educational system that undoubtedly contributed to later Polish growth. However, in the 70s and 80s, Poland started getting massive Western loans in exchange for reforms (which didn't happen), most of which was forgiven or restructured after '89. Of course, Poland also got a bunch of development aid post-'89. The post-'89 government managed shock therapy well and was one of the first former Eastern Bloc nations to come out of the shock therapy slump. Then, Poland joined the EU in 2004 and we know what that does for economies.

The fact is, Poland did struggle for a long time after the war. Most of Poland's meteoric rise to a developed, high-tech first world country has happened in the last 28 straight years of economic growth.

Of course why exactly do Hiroshima and Nagasaki exist today as metropolises today then?

Japan's post-war economic woes ended quite quickly. It was part of the Marshall Plan and the US paid special attention to the Japanese economy since Japan was NATO's lynchpin in East Asia. To simplify logistics, a large amount of the US war materiel used in the Korean War was manufactured in Japan. The San Francisco Treaty also excused Japan from all war reparation. The SCAP also implemented effective economic reforms and later Japanese governments continued reforms after the end of the American occupation for decades. The US military presence was also a major contributor to the economy and still is on Okinawa.

Is there some magic Japanese privilege and Polish privilege out there that I’m unaware of?

Well, yes. Their economic circumstances have been shaped by outside factors that have affected them very positively, as I've enumerated above.

Hell we aren’t even Caucasoid, let alone white. Why exactly do Northeast Asians exist at all

Pretty obvious that you're a racist when you say this.

and why exactly do we run about 1/4 of the world economy , about 1/4 of the scientific output in the world according to Nature Index not counting the diaspora...????

I mean, 1/4 is pretty close to the proportion of Chinese to the world population.

I want to abolish China because I want to make these numbers closer to 1/2 since it’s shameful that we don’t have per capita parity with Ashkenazis and Germanic peoples in terms of economic and technological output, not because we as a race have nothing and have achieved nothing.

Still haven't explained why that would fix anything, but ok.

P.S. To someone born in a punch down culture like China claiming that someone is a hopeless victim is not very different from saying that “I can kill you at will”.

More overgeneralizing racism, but ok.

What’s particularly absurd is that the claim isn’t factually accurate. So I have to correct you.

What's particularly absurd is your refusal to provide evidence for a causal link between Ashkenazim culture and higher per capita STEM output, your oversimplification of history and your political ideas, which are little more than an attempt to rationalize a desire for cultural genocide actually driven by blatant racialism.




Also, "shall" does not mean "should."

Well, you surely failed to explain why exactly did Jewish people do well in both Europe and the Middle East BEFORE Israel despite extreme amount of persecution including violence. The inherent greatness of Ashkenazi and to a less extant Sephardic Jews can never be hidden or destroyed by antisemitism.

Even back in 1904 Japan could already defeat Russia. Oh and in case you wonder Japanese scientists were already involved in research in issues such as Beriberi even back then yeah so much for the f***ing privilege theory. Do you know how many territories the Imperial Japanese Navy conquered? Japan was awesome before WWII and it was awesome after WWII. It was not less awesome when it was fighting against Anglos. A nation that can produce high quality cloth will produce good guns (Arisaka) and then planes (Mitsubishi Zero) and electronics & vehicles. There is a continuity of greatness from old Japan to new Japan.

As for Poland the Second Polish Republic actually did surprisingly well despite the fact that it didn’t start from a good position. I have two examples: the 7TP tank and Warsaw school of mathematics. Modern Poland is a continuation of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth which was a great place that used to be pretty rich. In this sense German and Russian occupation was just some anormaly. Eventually Poland is still Poland and even Nazism and Communism do not have significant long-term harmful impact on Poland.

The rapid development of India is not surprising simply because India never sucked. Indians invented cane sugar and zero which spread to the rest of the world. Indians are pretty much why the current style of traditional architecture & writing system etc exist in Southeast Asia minus Vietnam at all. Mysore and it’s rocket forces caused even the British to adopt some of their practices. Even during the colonial period world class STEM people such as Ramanujan and Raman already existed in India. The greatness of new India is not caused by the arbitrary will of West Europeans. Instead it always existed, exists and will always exist as long as humans exist.

1/4 (for all Northeast Asians, the numbers for Chinese alone is lower and given how screwed up communism is that’s not surprising. For PRC alone the per capita scientific output was slightly higher than Poland in 2019, Taiwan had it between Ireland and PRC ) is not good enough though it is in fact already much better than most ethnic groups since the Ashkenazi ratio is much higher.

I think you get my views. I believe if a tribe is sufficiently great then it is immune to serious long-term harm from the rest of humanity. I disagree with Nazis because I believe Ashkenazis are the greatest ethnic group in the world and that Jewish robustness to long-term serious effects of antisemitism is inherent. I disagree with social justice people because I believe non-West Europeans aren’t hopeless animals that can be exterminated at will by West Europeans (hence it doesn’t make any sense to blame West Europeans for anything and everything wrong in the rest of the world since they don’t actually control it). Even Mao understood that despite being a person who sucks so much, so do most people in Northeast Asia and India.

[Linkers Sha]

Man this topic is cancer

[Dumb Ideologies]

The heady stench of tippex, cheetos and basement damp once more fills the air as NSGers discuss wiping another nation name off the map.

[Celestiam]

At this rate, does the UK or the US have more of a right to exist? If the actions of its leaders forbid a nation from coalescing into a Nation-State I guarantee we won't see many of them.

If you break China up it will re-form. If you stop it from reforming...Google World War II, you'll see.

This being said, the PRC has overextended its borders beyond where its nation lives. Just like the Chinese have a right to national self determination, so do the other peoples (Tibetans, Uyghurs etc...). And the people who live on the island of Taiwan also have the right to their state.

(NB, we are speaking purely theoretically here. There is no way the PRC is loosening its grip on those additional territories that extend beyond what it ought to own anyway).

[Feline Goetland]

In case people wonder, Iran is a great country no matter whether people recognize it. Iran was great at the beginning with Aryans invaded the land. It was great with the invention of ice-cream, ice storage in deserts, qanats and windcatchers. Iran was great during the Middle Ages with Rumi and Persian gardens. Not surprisingly Iran was never colonized at the height of colonialism. Even when sanctioned by Anglos and having a government that isn’t very popular Iranians can still process uranium and conduct world class research (which is why they can develop their own missiles, however lots of stuff Iranian STEM people do have nothing to do with their military or gov). Even the oppressed Iranian women can still do great things which is why we got a female Fields medalist from Iran. Don’t tell me that there will be some Iranian miracle in 2040s. It has always been great, it is great and it will be great.

Even North Korea can at least keep Pyongyang clean, keep a large army of hackers and develop nukes. Why? Because it is still Korea.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Why didn’t antisemitism in general and the Holocaust in particular prevent Ashkenazis from achieving more than Europeans and Sephardic Jews from achieving more than their Muslim neighbors per capita? I mean Israel should have been the poorest and least functional place on this entire planet if your theory is factually accurate since there are nobody on this planet who suffers from more unjust tribal violence than Jewish people. Did Israelis scream “muh Nazis suck”, “muh environment sucks” and “muh Nasser sucks” without actually developing Israel to a First World country? Lololol. Are you saying that despite getting murdered and hated all over the planet Jewish people are actually the most privileged people on this planet? What?

Israel as a nation has been remarkably privileged economically. During the British Mandate, British policies kept the Jewish population urban and in industrial jobs, as opposed to in agriculture. West German reparations over 14 years amounted to about $110 billion, forming almost 90% of the national revenue in 1956. In the same year, private donations from American Jews amounted to $100 million. All that went into developing industrial and educational infrastructure. The 1990s also saw a massive aliyah of well-educated Soviet Jews. Not to mention the approximately $100 billion in cumulative US aid.

Of course using the same logic Warsaw should be a hellhole (it isn’t) because Germans and Russians treated Poles like shit to the point that the Holocaust caused about 10% of all Poles in Poland to perish and Nazis really destroyed Warsaw.

The 2nd Polish republic was already weak economically before the war and the Polish People's Republic made a hash of post-war recovery. So yes, Poland and Warsaw was pretty bad. But, the communist regime did establish a solid educational system that undoubtedly contributed to later Polish growth. However, in the 70s and 80s, Poland started getting massive Western loans in exchange for reforms (which didn't happen), most of which was forgiven or restructured after '89. Of course, Poland also got a bunch of development aid post-'89. The post-'89 government managed shock therapy well and was one of the first former Eastern Bloc nations to come out of the shock therapy slump. Then, Poland joined the EU in 2004 and we know what that does for economies.

The fact is, Poland did struggle for a long time after the war. Most of Poland's meteoric rise to a developed, high-tech first world country has happened in the last 28 straight years of economic growth.

Of course why exactly do Hiroshima and Nagasaki exist today as metropolises today then?

Japan's post-war economic woes ended quite quickly. It was part of the Marshall Plan and the US paid special attention to the Japanese economy since Japan was NATO's lynchpin in East Asia. To simplify logistics, a large amount of the US war materiel used in the Korean War was manufactured in Japan. The San Francisco Treaty also excused Japan from all war reparation. The SCAP also implemented effective economic reforms and later Japanese governments continued reforms after the end of the American occupation for decades. The US military presence was also a major contributor to the economy and still is on Okinawa.

Is there some magic Japanese privilege and Polish privilege out there that I’m unaware of?

Well, yes. Their economic circumstances have been shaped by outside factors that have affected them very positively, as I've enumerated above.

Hell we aren’t even Caucasoid, let alone white. Why exactly do Northeast Asians exist at all

Pretty obvious that you're a racist when you say this.

and why exactly do we run about 1/4 of the world economy , about 1/4 of the scientific output in the world according to Nature Index not counting the diaspora...????

I mean, 1/4 is pretty close to the proportion of Chinese to the world population.

I want to abolish China because I want to make these numbers closer to 1/2 since it’s shameful that we don’t have per capita parity with Ashkenazis and Germanic peoples in terms of economic and technological output, not because we as a race have nothing and have achieved nothing.

Still haven't explained why that would fix anything, but ok.

P.S. To someone born in a punch down culture like China claiming that someone is a hopeless victim is not very different from saying that “I can kill you at will”.

More overgeneralizing racism, but ok.

What’s particularly absurd is that the claim isn’t factually accurate. So I have to correct you.

What's particularly absurd is your refusal to provide evidence for a causal link between Ashkenazim culture and higher per capita STEM output, your oversimplification of history and your political ideas, which are little more than an attempt to rationalize a desire for cultural genocide actually driven by blatant racialism.




Also, "shall" does not mean "should."

Is everyone okay? Those were some loud gunshots, and they were pretty nearby.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

In case people wonder, Iran is a great country no matter whether people recognize it. Iran was great at the beginning with Aryans invaded the land. It was great with the invention of ice-cream, ice storage in deserts, qanats and windcatchers. Iran was great during the Middle Ages with Rumi and Persian gardens. Not surprisingly Iran was never colonized at the height of colonialism. Even when sanctioned by Anglos and having a government that isn’t very popular Iranians can still process uranium and conduct world class research (which is why they can develop their own missiles, however lots of stuff Iranian STEM people do have nothing to do with their military or gov). Even the oppressed Iranian women can still do great things which is why we got a female Fields medalist from Iran. Don’t tell me that there will be some Iranian miracle in 2040s. It has always been great, it is great and it will be great.

Even North Korea can at least keep Pyongyang clean, keep a large army of hackers and develop nukes. Why? Because it is still Korea.

Iran was never the Congo free state. That's probably why they aren't down and out.

[Novus America]

A united China is preferable to that of a divided mess. The country should be way more devolved, though. Regions with unique cultural identities such as Tibet and East Turkestan must be given a fair degree of autonomy and the right to preserve their culture.

This is where I lean. A free, federal or confederal union with real autonomy.
Something like the US or EU, although modified to fit China.
Maybe a dual system, of a closer federation of the core China proper areas, with a loser confederation of the outlying areas like Taiwan and Tibet.

Certainly not the centralized Xi Reich it is now though.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Well, you surely failed to explain why exactly did Jewish people do well in both Europe and the Middle East BEFORE Israel despite extreme amount of persecution including violence. The inherent greatness of Ashkenazi and to a less extant Sephardic Jews can never be hidden or destroyed by antisemitism.

Well, you didn't ask about pre-Israel, but I'll give this a shot.

Anti-Semitism in the Middle East, unsurprisingly, really got going with the beginnings of Zionism. Don't assume that the Middle East has always been so anti-Semitic. The dhimmi status, although it cemented the Jewish status as second-class citizens, also formalized and recognized their status in Islamic society. There are plenty of examples of Jews rising high in medieval Islamic society, especially in the very tolerant Caliphate of Córdoba. More pogroms did begin occurring in the 19th century, but the Dreyfus Affair was covered very sympathetically to Dreyfus in Muslim Arab news.

Oh, also: you have provided zero supporting evidence to show that Jews in Europe and the Middle East had higher average success than other racial/ethnic groups. Just another source-less assertion.

Even back in 1904 Japan could already defeat Russia.

Correction- The Japanese admirals could defeat a financially insolvent Russia lead by an incompetent Tsar that would have a revolution the very next year.

Russia was unable to bring to bear its full power as well- it didn't manage to ship troops through the incomplete Trans-Siberian railway and sent its fleets into action piecemeal.

Wasn't really Japanese strength so much as basic competence from Japanese admirals and generals and the fact that they were able to immediately apply overwhelming force to take Port Arthur and destroy the 1st Pacific Squadron in port before Russian reinforcements could come from the west.

Oh and in case you wonder Japanese scientists were already involved in research in issues such as Beriberi even back then

Am I supposed to be proud if I, say, lock myself in a dark basement, give myself a vitamin D deficiency and then come out and fix it by standing in the sun?

I don't see how solving a vitamin deficiency you gave to your own troops is something to be so proud of.

Also, the actual cause and the rice bran treatment for beriberi were only discovered in the 1910s by an American who got a Nobel Prize for it.

Do you know how many territories the Imperial Japanese Navy conquered? Japan was awesome before WWII and it was awesome after WWII.

Launching surprise attacks against colonies defended by hurriedly raised colonial levies is hardly impressive. It's even less impressive when you almost immediately (read: six months) start getting put on the backfoot once the Allies start moving actual troops and ships to the East.

It was not less awesome when it was fighting against Anglos.

Once again, Japan started getting crushed once actual Allied forces started getting to the East.

A nation that can produce high quality cloth will produce good guns (Arisaka) and then planes (Mitsubishi Zero) and electronics & vehicles. There is a continuity of greatness from old Japan to new Japan.

Ignoring historical context in favor of spewing meaningless logically fallacious Japanese nationalist rhetoric. Ok.

Care to provide any actual evidence of this chain of logic?

I have two examples: the 7TP tank

You mean the tank that was a modified version of the British Vickers 6-ton?

Warsaw school of mathematics.

And Galois came out of the Bourbon Restoration. Doesn't make the Bourbon Restoration good or the Second Polish Republic's economy not bad.

Modern Poland is a continuation of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

Look at a map of the Commonwealth and then a map of Poland now before you say that again.

which was a great place that used to be pretty rich.

It was already in terminal decline before it got partitioned. But yes, it did have a golden age.

Eventually Poland is still Poland and even Nazism and Communism do not have significant long-term harmful impact on Poland.

Warsaw, 5 years after the war

I already told you that Poland only really started developing in around the last 30 years.

The rapid development of India is not surprising simply because India never sucked. Indians invented cane sugar and zero which spread to the rest of the world.

The Ancient Egyptians were the first to invent zero and sugarcane was domesticated by the Papuans already.

Mysore and it’s rocket forces caused even the British to adopt some of their practices. Even during the colonial period world class STEM people such as Ramanujan and Raman already existed in India. The greatness of new India is not caused by the arbitrary will of West Europeans. Instead it always existed, exists and will always exist as long as humans exist.

Interesting, so you think a good culture is one that made advancements in rocketry, contributed a foundational concept to math, invented a way to process a food and had a famous physicist and mathematician?

Someone feel like checking their racial math now?

1/4 (for all Northeast Asians, the numbers for Chinese alone is lower and given how screwed up communism is that’s not surprising. For PRC alone the per capita scientific output was slightly higher than Poland in 2019, Taiwan had it between Ireland and PRC ) is not good enough though it is in fact already much better than most ethnic groups since the Ashkenazi ratio is much higher.

No source, but ok.

Strange that you were harping on about how great Poland is but then you say that the Poles had lower per capita STEM output, which by your racial logic makes them inferior.

I think you get my views. I believe if a tribe is sufficiently great then it is immune to serious long-term harm from the rest of humanity.

Despite my explanations of how your world view is overly simplistic and can only be supported by a selective view of history?

Thought experiment: Every single Ashkenazim is killed. They're gonna resurrect, since they're "immune," right? Or less extreme, they all get enslaved. Still gonna be fine, right?

I believe Ashkenazis are the greatest ethnic group in the world

Racial supremacism is bad whether you think Aryans or the Ashkenazim are the "master race."

Like with horseshoe theory, an Ashkenazim supremacist like you isn't all that different from a Nazi.

that Jewish robustness to long-term serious effects of antisemitism is inherent.

Another unsupported statement, but ok.

I disagree with social justice people because I believe non-West Europeans aren’t hopeless animals that can be exterminated at will by West Europeans (hence it doesn’t make any sense to blame West Europeans for anything and everything wrong in the rest of the world since they don’t actually control it). Even Mao understood that despite being a person who sucks so much, so do most people in Northeast Asia and India.

I mean, the Europeans did a real number on the rest of the world with colonialism, with effects that continue to this day. It's disingenuous and just incorrect to deny that, as you seem to be implying.

It would be easier for both of us if you just admitted that you're wrong rather than you going through every country in the world except China and touting how inherently great they are because of their culture followed by me debunking you.

[Feline Goetland]

Well, you surely failed to explain why exactly did Jewish people do well in both Europe and the Middle East BEFORE Israel despite extreme amount of persecution including violence. The inherent greatness of Ashkenazi and to a less extant Sephardic Jews can never be hidden or destroyed by antisemitism.

Well, you didn't ask about pre-Israel, but I'll give this a shot.

Anti-Semitism in the Middle East, unsurprisingly, really got going with the beginnings of Zionism. Don't assume that the Middle East has always been so anti-Semitic. The dhimmi status, although it cemented the Jewish status as second-class citizens, also formalized and recognized their status in Islamic society. There are plenty of examples of Jews rising high in medieval Islamic society, especially in the very tolerant Caliphate of Córdoba. More pogroms did begin occurring in the 19th century, but the Dreyfus Affair was covered very sympathetically to Dreyfus in Muslim Arab news.

Oh, also: you have provided zero supporting evidence to show that Jews in Europe and the Middle East had higher average success than other racial/ethnic groups. Just another source-less assertion.

Even back in 1904 Japan could already defeat Russia.

Correction- The Japanese admirals could defeat a financially insolvent Russia lead by an incompetent Tsar that would have a revolution the very next year.

Russia was unable to bring to bear its full power as well- it didn't manage to ship troops through the incomplete Trans-Siberian railway and sent its fleets into action piecemeal.

Wasn't really Japanese strength so much as basic competence from Japanese admirals and generals and the fact that they were able to immediately apply overwhelming force to take Port Arthur and destroy the 1st Pacific Squadron in port before Russian reinforcements could come from the west.

Oh and in case you wonder Japanese scientists were already involved in research in issues such as Beriberi even back then

Am I supposed to be proud if I, say, lock myself in a dark basement, give myself a vitamin D deficiency and then come out and fix it by standing in the sun?

I don't see how solving a vitamin deficiency you gave to your own troops is something to be so proud of.

Also, the actual cause and the rice bran treatment for beriberi were only discovered in the 1910s by an American who got a Nobel Prize for it.

Do you know how many territories the Imperial Japanese Navy conquered? Japan was awesome before WWII and it was awesome after WWII.

Launching surprise attacks against colonies defended by hurriedly raised colonial levies is hardly impressive. It's even less impressive when you almost immediately (read: six months) start getting put on the backfoot once the Allies start moving actual troops and ships to the East.

It was not less awesome when it was fighting against Anglos.

Once again, Japan started getting crushed once actual Allied forces started getting to the East.

A nation that can produce high quality cloth will produce good guns (Arisaka) and then planes (Mitsubishi Zero) and electronics & vehicles. There is a continuity of greatness from old Japan to new Japan.

Ignoring historical context in favor of spewing meaningless logically fallacious Japanese nationalist rhetoric. Ok.

Care to provide any actual evidence of this chain of logic?

I have two examples: the 7TP tank

You mean the tank that was a modified version of the British Vickers 6-ton?

Warsaw school of mathematics.

And Galois came out of the Bourbon Restoration. Doesn't make the Bourbon Restoration good or the Second Polish Republic's economy not bad.

Modern Poland is a continuation of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

Look at a map of the Commonwealth and then a map of Poland now before you say that again.

which was a great place that used to be pretty rich.

It was already in terminal decline before it got partitioned. But yes, it did have a golden age.

Eventually Poland is still Poland and even Nazism and Communism do not have significant long-term harmful impact on Poland.

Warsaw, 5 years after the war

I already told you that Poland only really started developing in around the last 30 years.

The rapid development of India is not surprising simply because India never sucked. Indians invented cane sugar and zero which spread to the rest of the world.

The Ancient Egyptians were the first to invent zero and sugarcane was domesticated by the Papuans already.

Mysore and it’s rocket forces caused even the British to adopt some of their practices. Even during the colonial period world class STEM people such as Ramanujan and Raman already existed in India. The greatness of new India is not caused by the arbitrary will of West Europeans. Instead it always existed, exists and will always exist as long as humans exist.

Interesting, so you think a good culture is one that made advancements in rocketry, contributed a foundational concept to math, invented a way to process a food and had a famous physicist and mathematician?

Someone feel like checking their racial math now?

1/4 (for all Northeast Asians, the numbers for Chinese alone is lower and given how screwed up communism is that’s not surprising. For PRC alone the per capita scientific output was slightly higher than Poland in 2019, Taiwan had it between Ireland and PRC ) is not good enough though it is in fact already much better than most ethnic groups since the Ashkenazi ratio is much higher.

No source, but ok.

Strange that you were harping on about how great Poland is but then you say that the Poles had lower per capita STEM output, which by your racial logic makes them inferior.

I think you get my views. I believe if a tribe is sufficiently great then it is immune to serious long-term harm from the rest of humanity.

Despite my explanations of how your world view is overly simplistic and can only be supported by a selective view of history?

Thought experiment: Every single Ashkenazim is killed. They're gonna resurrect, since they're "immune," right? Or less extreme, they all get enslaved. Still gonna be fine, right?

I believe Ashkenazis are the greatest ethnic group in the world

Racial supremacism is bad whether you think Aryans or the Ashkenazim are the "master race."

Like with horseshoe theory, an Ashkenazim supremacist like you isn't all that different from a Nazi.

that Jewish robustness to long-term serious effects of antisemitism is inherent.

Another unsupported statement, but ok.

I disagree with social justice people because I believe non-West Europeans aren’t hopeless animals that can be exterminated at will by West Europeans (hence it doesn’t make any sense to blame West Europeans for anything and everything wrong in the rest of the world since they don’t actually control it). Even Mao understood that despite being a person who sucks so much, so do most people in Northeast Asia and India.

I mean, the Europeans did a real number on the rest of the world with colonialism, with effects that continue to this day. It's disingenuous and just incorrect to deny that, as you seem to be implying.

It would be easier for both of us if you just admitted that you're wrong rather than you going through every country in the world except China and touting how great their culture is followed by me debunking you.

I see. So I guess you are actually a Western liberal. I have zero interest in addressing whether the attempted and failed colonization Britain etc attempted in Japan, China and Korea is morally good or evil (it is a topic of zero importance to me since I’m not white nor am I black lol). All I care about is that they failed and that instead of collapsing the attempted colonialism led to the strong Empire of Japan and due to Japan improved global status and wealth for the race. You forgot that social justice and black liberation / Afrocentrism are still really Eurocentric since they are merely rejection of old Eurocentrism lol. I have a lot of respect for Germanic peoples and their great cultures. However my view is entirely Northeast Asia-centric. The only things that matter are what affect us and how much they do. For example COVID matters in the sense of originating in the communist-fascist regime of China. That’s what matters. Its later impact on Northeast Asian people is fairly minor due to efforts by Democratic Northeast Asian states and Singapore. Speaking of colonialism I pretty much only have interest in how Japan and even Qing China prevented themselves from being colonized and how Japan earned power and respect among West European powers as well as colonial history of Hong Kong, Macau and Singapore as well as the fate (read: gradually improved economic status due to their hard work and ingenuity) of descendants of early Japanese and Chinese settlers in the New World & Europe & Africa.

See? The response of persecution of ethnic Japanese by Allies during WWII is that they rapidly regain and exceed their former status on their own just like Jews, Southeast Asian Cantonese & Hakkas & Fujianese and numerous other peoples when facing political oppression. If you check the per capita income by ethnicity in Hawaii you will realize that Japanese people in Hawaii do better than Europeans. So do Japanese people in Canada and mainland US. From a Northeast Asian point of view it entirely doesn’t make sense to even think there is some kind of morality that regulates the relationship between Northeast Asians and Europeans and hence the persecution simply caused people in Japan to be less willing to emigrate due to this additional risk. Screaming that it is a form of persecution that needs apology means one believes that there are actually responsibilities between people of different races.

I don’t think you actually understand my view at all. For example it will be absurd to rank Poland above Japan since after the removal of Northeast Asian isolation Japan had always done better than Poland in almost all areas including pre-war GDP per capita.

[Knica Eas]

Can someone explain what this thread is about so I know if it's worth reading?

As it stands, I can't tell if the OP's conclusion is for the rest of the world to partition China through war or, instead, for everyone to just start recognising hypothetical partitions of China as independent states? (e.g. instead of Hong Kong (China) or Macau (China) or Shanghai, China you'd have Hong Kong, Macau and Shanghai).

The poll doesn't help much either...

The arguments are difficult to summarise because they are inconsistent and not very coherent, but the overall position seems to just be that 'China bad and must magically disappear'.

Also, various misconceptions about Europe (e.g. 'German Switzerland', etc.)

The only thing I am interested in is... is there a way to blacklist or silence notification for a specifc forum topic or a poster? People are free to be crazy if they want... but I would prefer to not have this nonsense showing up on the feed.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

I see. So I guess you are actually a Western liberal. I have zero interest in addressing whether the attempted and failed colonization Britain etc attempted in Japan, China and Korea is morally good or evil (it is a topic of zero importance to me since I’m not white nor am I black lol). All I care is that they failed and that instead of collapsing the attempted colonialism led to the strong Empire of Japan.

I don't see the relevance.

You forgot that social justice and black liberation / Afrocentrism are still really Eurocentric since they are merely rejection of old Eurocentrism lol.

I'm not really well-read on critical race theory but I'm pretty sure rejecting Eurocentrism makes you by definition not Eurocentric. Not that this tangent of yours is related to what I said.

I have a lot of respect for Germanic peoples and their great cultures. However my view is entirely Northeast Asia-centric. The only things that matter are what affect us and how much they do. For example COVID matters in the sense of originating in the communist-fascist regime of China. That’s what matters. Its later impact on Northeast Asian people is fairly minor due to efforts by Democratic Northeast Asian states and Singapore.

Still not relevant.

The response of persecution of ethnic Japanese by Allies during WWII is that they rapidly regain and exceed their former status on their own just like Jews, Southeast Asian Cantonese & Hakkas & Fujianese and numerous other peoples when facing political oppression.

Ignoring everything I said about Japan's uniquely advantageous economic situation, but ok.

If you check the per capita income by ethnicity in Hawaii you will realize that Japanese people in Hawaii do better than Europeans. So do Japanese people in Canada and mainland US.

Interesting how earlier, when talking about STEM output, you excluded the STEM output of the Chinese diaspora, but now you're including the Japanese diaspora.

I can't be bothered to look into Japanese in Hawaii deep enough to rebut you on this point.

From a Northeast Asian point of view it entirely doesn’t make sense to even think there is some kind of morality that regulates the relationship between Northeast Asians and Europeans and hence the persecution simply caused people in Japan to be less willing to emigrate due to this additional risk. Screaming that it is a form of persecution that needs apology means one believes that there are actually responsibilities between people of different races.

Note the difference between assigning moral judgements to whole races and acknowledging the damage done to certain races due to historic oppression/discrimination.

I don’t think you actually understand my view at all. For example it will be absurd to rank Poland above Japan since after the removal of Northeast Asian isolation

Then, explain it in a single logically coherent post. Each time you reply you ignore all my rebuttals and throw out stuff with no apparent relevance to your central argument like this one about Poland and Japan and the stuff about Eurocentrism.

Stop dodging my rebuttals and points.

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Can someone explain what this thread is about so I know if it's worth reading?

As it stands, I can't tell if the OP's conclusion is for the rest of the world to partition China through war or, instead, for everyone to just start recognising hypothetical partitions of China as independent states? (e.g. instead of Hong Kong (China) or Macau (China) or Shanghai, China you'd have Hong Kong, Macau and Shanghai).

The poll doesn't help much either...

The arguments are difficult to summarise because they are inconsistent and not very coherent, but the overall position seems to just be that 'China bad and must magically disappear'.

Also, various misconceptions about Europe (e.g. 'German Switzerland', Catalon is not Spain, etc.)

The only thing I am interested in is... is there a way to blacklist or silence notification for a specifc forum topic or a poster? People are free to be crazy if they want... but I would prefer to not have this nonsense showing up on the feed.

In the UCP, you can set foes whose posts you won't see.

[Knica Eas]

The arguments are difficult to summarise because they are inconsistent and not very coherent, but the overall position seems to just be that 'China bad and must magically disappear'.

Also, various misconceptions about Europe (e.g. 'German Switzerland', Catalon is not Spain, etc.)

The only thing I am interested in is... is there a way to blacklist or silence notification for a specifc forum topic or a poster? People are free to be crazy if they want... but I would prefer to not have this nonsense showing up on the feed.

In the UCP, you can set foes whose posts you won't see.

Thank you! I am fairly new

[Feline Goetland]

I see. So I guess you are actually a Western liberal. I have zero interest in addressing whether the attempted and failed colonization Britain etc attempted in Japan, China and Korea is morally good or evil (it is a topic of zero importance to me since I’m not white nor am I black lol). All I care is that they failed and that instead of collapsing the attempted colonialism led to the strong Empire of Japan.

I don't see the relevance.

You forgot that social justice and black liberation / Afrocentrism are still really Eurocentric since they are merely rejection of old Eurocentrism lol.

I'm not really well-read on critical race theory but I'm pretty sure rejecting Eurocentrism makes you by definition not Eurocentric. Not that this tangent of yours is related to what I said.

I have a lot of respect for Germanic peoples and their great cultures. However my view is entirely Northeast Asia-centric. The only things that matter are what affect us and how much they do. For example COVID matters in the sense of originating in the communist-fascist regime of China. That’s what matters. Its later impact on Northeast Asian people is fairly minor due to efforts by Democratic Northeast Asian states and Singapore.

Still not relevant.

I don’t think you actually understand my view at all. For example it will be absurd to rank Poland above Japan since after the removal of Northeast Asian isolation

Then, explain it in a single logically coherent post. Each time you reply you ignore all my rebuttals and throw out stuff with no apparent relevance to your central argument like this one about Poland and Japan and the stuff about Eurocentrism.

Stop dodging my rebuttals and points.

I wasn’t dodging your rebuttals. Instead your post was so long that it takes me a long time to respond. I will respond here.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

huh?

Do tell me, how does breaking up a country grant that country "checks and balances?"

All you are doing by splitting up China is opening to door for warlords to go around massacring Chinese in the name of "uniting the ethnic han Chinese."

This "Ashkenazis and Germans are superior intellects" crap is a classic nonsense supremacist argument. You argue that these groups just inherently have better intellect because of their culture, but you fail to take into account outside factors that could influence them too.

For example, Ashkenazi Jews somehow having "better intellect" does not come down to their culture-- it comes down to outside factors. Factors like not being enslaved, oppressed, discriminated against, or escaping such societies that do. It's also incorrect to make this argument for Europeans in general, since they had the advantage of being the conquerors, and the conquering group tends to fare much better than the subject ones. These factors and more help to destroy your baseless claims that Ashkenazi Jews are somehow better intellectuals purely because of their culture. They're not. They just had a privileged position while other cultures (particularly those in Africa, the Americas, Asia, and Australia) all were exterminated or suffered cruel fates. And that doesn't just go away when the oppression ends, because those same groups can often be left in poverty (Indians and African-Americans, anyone?), making it difficult to fully erase the effects of centuries of oppression on whatever culture you talk about.

Ah we are back to the social liberal “muh oppression” nonsense. Ok.

Why didn’t antisemitism in general and the Holocaust in particular prevent Ashkenazis from achieving more than Europeans and Sephardic Jews from achieving more than their Muslim neighbors per capita? I mean Israel should have been the poorest and least functional place on this entire planet if your theory is factually accurate since there are nobody on this planet who suffers from more unjust tribal violence than Jewish people. Did Israelis scream “muh Nazis suck”, “muh environment sucks” and “muh Nasser sucks” without actually developing Israel to a First World country? Lololol. Are you saying that despite getting murdered and hated all over the planet Jewish people are actually the most privileged people on this planet? What?

Of course using the same logic Warsaw should be a hellhole (it isn’t) because Germans and Russians treated Poles like shit to the point that the Holocaust caused about 10% of all Poles in Poland to perish and Nazis really destroyed Warsaw. Of course why exactly do Hiroshima and Nagasaki exist today as metropolises today then? Is there some magic Japanese privilege and Polish privilege out there that I’m unaware of? Hell we aren’t even Caucasoid, let alone white. Why exactly do Northeast Asians exist at all and why exactly do we run about 1/4 of the world economy , about 1/4 of the scientific output in the world according to Nature Index not counting the diaspora...???? I want to abolish China because I want to make these numbers closer to 1/2 since it’s shameful that we don’t have per capita parity with Ashkenazis and Germanic peoples in terms of economic and technological output, not because we as a race have nothing and have achieved nothing..

P.S. To someone born in a punch down culture like China claiming that someone is a hopeless victim is not very different from saying that “I can kill you at will”. What’s particularly absurd is that the claim isn’t factually accurate. So I have to correct you.

You... somehow managed to miss the entire point of my argument and managed to throw in bad examples! A two for one combo!

My point, if you somehow can't tell, is that it's dishonest to simply say that Germans and Ashkenazis somehow are "intellectually superior."

And now, it's time to explain why your rebuttal is complete and utter nonsense. First: The Holocaust. You claim the Holocaust would be an exception to my Ashkenazi Jews argument, but it is not. The Jews aren't a culture group exclusive to Europe, and therefore the Holocaust argument is invalid. While European Jews definitely suffered at the hands of a European mass murder, the rest of the world's Jews did not. At the same time, the Holocaust did not last that long, lasting for (at most) 13 years. Colonialism, for comparison, lasted centuries, and fundamentally changed the cultures they conquered.

Second: Your rant about obliterated cities. Notice how obliterating a city during war has nothing to do with colonialism and oppression? Exactly. You then go on to claim I'm somehow saying there's some "Polish" or "Japanese" privilege using the exact same backwards logic, which is just completely ridiculous. You seem to have completely misunderstood my argument, and are now taking my words out of context. GG.

Third, and finally: Repeating old taking points. In the conclusion of your nonsense rant, you repeat the debunked claim that Ashkenazis and Germans are superior intellects, which I already debunked. You then go on to triumphantly assert that I'm claiming your a "hopeless victim." This, as I've already mentioned, doesn't work. Did I ever say (ironically enough) that some cultures are inherently less intelligent than others? No. Did I say that areas that are in poverty for reasons including colonial oppression are disadvantaged? Yes. Does that mean there's such a thing as "white privilege?" No. Does that mean there are serious issues of economic equality globally, left from the scars of colonial exploitation? Yes. And that's the thing. All I am claiming in my argument is that you are making an unfair comparison, as Jews and Germans are in an exceptionally fantastic economic position, when compared to other groups. If we stripped away all economic burdens on every culture and then tried to measure how many intellectuals they had, you'd find all of them to have roughly equal rates of intellectuals per capita. Period. Do not try to say I am arguing anything else. This is not a game of race like you make it out to be, but rather a game of economics, where the best economies are also the brightest.

When you put people into positions of economic disadvantage, do you think they'll perform nearly as well as if they had no such problem? Of course not. By asserting otherwise, you have essentially tried to argue that things like slavery and colonialism bore no impact on dampening the bright minds of their time and ours. Just because it's difficult to erase a colonial legacy, does not mean it is impossible. And that is where you messed up. You forgot that one little fact, and that is why your argument fails. I did not claim that erasing the legacy of being conquered or being enslaved is impossible. I simply claimed that it was hard.

Rant over.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

In case people wonder, Iran is a great country no matter whether people recognize it. Iran was great at the beginning with Aryans invaded the land. It was great with the invention of ice-cream, ice storage in deserts, qanats and windcatchers. Iran was great during the Middle Ages with Rumi and Persian gardens. Not surprisingly Iran was never colonized at the height of colonialism. Even when sanctioned by Anglos and having a government that isn’t very popular Iranians can still process uranium and conduct world class research (which is why they can develop their own missiles, however lots of stuff Iranian STEM people do have nothing to do with their military or gov). Even the oppressed Iranian women can still do great things which is why we got a female Fields medalist from Iran. Don’t tell me that there will be some Iranian miracle in 2040s. It has always been great, it is great and it will be great.

Even North Korea can at least keep Pyongyang clean, keep a large army of hackers and develop nukes. Why? Because it is still Korea.

Btw before you think I'm some white American (relating to my previous post since you want to call me an SJW), I'm actually an Iranian-American. Iran's Islamist government sucks and should see a restoration of the Shah as constitutional monarch.

But that's not the point of the topic. Back to China!

[Feline Goetland]

Ah we are back to the social liberal “muh oppression” nonsense. Ok.

Why didn’t antisemitism in general and the Holocaust in particular prevent Ashkenazis from achieving more than Europeans and Sephardic Jews from achieving more than their Muslim neighbors per capita? I mean Israel should have been the poorest and least functional place on this entire planet if your theory is factually accurate since there are nobody on this planet who suffers from more unjust tribal violence than Jewish people. Did Israelis scream “muh Nazis suck”, “muh environment sucks” and “muh Nasser sucks” without actually developing Israel to a First World country? Lololol. Are you saying that despite getting murdered and hated all over the planet Jewish people are actually the most privileged people on this planet? What?

Of course using the same logic Warsaw should be a hellhole (it isn’t) because Germans and Russians treated Poles like shit to the point that the Holocaust caused about 10% of all Poles in Poland to perish and Nazis really destroyed Warsaw. Of course why exactly do Hiroshima and Nagasaki exist today as metropolises today then? Is there some magic Japanese privilege and Polish privilege out there that I’m unaware of? Hell we aren’t even Caucasoid, let alone white. Why exactly do Northeast Asians exist at all and why exactly do we run about 1/4 of the world economy , about 1/4 of the scientific output in the world according to Nature Index not counting the diaspora...???? I want to abolish China because I want to make these numbers closer to 1/2 since it’s shameful that we don’t have per capita parity with Ashkenazis and Germanic peoples in terms of economic and technological output, not because we as a race have nothing and have achieved nothing..

P.S. To someone born in a punch down culture like China claiming that someone is a hopeless victim is not very different from saying that “I can kill you at will”. What’s particularly absurd is that the claim isn’t factually accurate. So I have to correct you.

You... somehow managed to miss the entire point of my argument and managed to throw in bad examples! A two for one combo!

My point, if you somehow can't tell, is that it's dishonest to simply say that Germans and Ashkenazis somehow are "intellectually superior."

And now, it's time to explain why your rebuttal is complete and utter nonsense. First: The Holocaust. You claim the Holocaust would be an exception to my Ashkenazi Jews argument, but it is not. The Jews aren't a culture group exclusive to Europe, and therefore the Holocaust argument is invalid. While European Jews definitely suffered at the hands of a European mass murder, the rest of the world's Jews did not.

Second: Your rant about obliterated cities. Notice how obliterating a city during war has nothing to do with colonialism and oppression? Exactly. You then go on to claim I'm somehow saying there's some "Polish" or "Japanese" privilege using the exact same backwards logic, which is just completely ridiculous. You seem to have completely misunderstood my argument, and are now taking my words out of context. GG.

Third, and finally: Repeating old taking points. In the conclusion of your nonsense rant, you repeat the debunked claim that Ashkenazis and Germans are superior intellects, which I already debunked. You then go on to triumphantly assert that I'm claiming your a "hopeless victim." This, as I've already mentioned, doesn't work. Did I ever say (ironically enough) that some cultures are inherently less intelligent than others? No. Did I say that areas that are in poverty for reasons including colonial oppression are disadvantaged? Yes. Does that mean there's such a thing as "white privilege?" No. Does that mean there are serious issues of economic equality globally, left from the scars of colonial exploitation? Yes. And that's the thing. All I am claiming in my argument is that you are making an unfair comparison, as Jews and Germans are in an exceptionally fantastic economic position, when compared to other groups. If we stripped away all economic burdens on every culture and then tried to measure how many intellectuals they had, you'd find all of them to have roughly equal rates of intellectuals per capita. Period. Do not try to say I am arguing anything else. This is not a game of race like you make it out to be, but rather a game of economics, where the best economies are also the brightest.

When you put people into positions of economic disadvantage, do you think they'll perform nearly as well as if they had no such problem? Of course not. By asserting otherwise, you have essentially tried to argue that things like slavery and colonialism bore no impact on dampening the bright minds of their time and ours. Just because it's difficult to erase a colonial legacy, does not mean it is impossible. And that is where you messed up. You forgot that one little fact, and that is why your argument fails. I did not claim that erasing the legacy of being conquered or being enslaved is impossible. I simply claimed that it was hard.

Rant over.

Lots of peoples once got conquered. Lots of peoples once got enslaved.

If you realize that most Jewish contributions to the world were made by Ashkenazis you will probably realize how serious the harm the Holocaust caused was. However even that failed to ruin Ashkenazi Jewry.

[Free Ravensburg]

No, if I could destroy nations, that is the first to go

[Feline Goetland]

In case people wonder, Iran is a great country no matter whether people recognize it. Iran was great at the beginning with Aryans invaded the land. It was great with the invention of ice-cream, ice storage in deserts, qanats and windcatchers. Iran was great during the Middle Ages with Rumi and Persian gardens. Not surprisingly Iran was never colonized at the height of colonialism. Even when sanctioned by Anglos and having a government that isn’t very popular Iranians can still process uranium and conduct world class research (which is why they can develop their own missiles, however lots of stuff Iranian STEM people do have nothing to do with their military or gov). Even the oppressed Iranian women can still do great things which is why we got a female Fields medalist from Iran. Don’t tell me that there will be some Iranian miracle in 2040s. It has always been great, it is great and it will be great.

Even North Korea can at least keep Pyongyang clean, keep a large army of hackers and develop nukes. Why? Because it is still Korea.

Btw before you think I'm some white American (relating to my previous post since you want to call me an SJW), I'm actually an Iranian-American. Iran's Islamist government sucks and should see a restoration of the Shah as constitutional monarch.

But that's not the point of the topic. Back to China!

Only in the minds of Nordicists and related white nationalists are Iranians not white in the same sense that it takes someone like me to claim that Northeast Asians and Southeast Asians are separate races. I really play by WN logic. If they can exclude less well-to-do members of their race with a different culture as a separate race I’m free to do the same.

I think in the long run any regime in Iran and whether they get along with Israelis, Anglos or any other groups of people such as Russians won’t have much difference. You guys will be fine. Usually if a diaspora that is not disproportionally upper class does well abroad it means the home country likely only has some cultural or political problems. North Korea and Belarus will also eventually be First World.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

You... somehow managed to miss the entire point of my argument and managed to throw in bad examples! A two for one combo!

My point, if you somehow can't tell, is that it's dishonest to simply say that Germans and Ashkenazis somehow are "intellectually superior."

And now, it's time to explain why your rebuttal is complete and utter nonsense. First: The Holocaust. You claim the Holocaust would be an exception to my Ashkenazi Jews argument, but it is not. The Jews aren't a culture group exclusive to Europe, and therefore the Holocaust argument is invalid. While European Jews definitely suffered at the hands of a European mass murder, the rest of the world's Jews did not.

Second: Your rant about obliterated cities. Notice how obliterating a city during war has nothing to do with colonialism and oppression? Exactly. You then go on to claim I'm somehow saying there's some "Polish" or "Japanese" privilege using the exact same backwards logic, which is just completely ridiculous. You seem to have completely misunderstood my argument, and are now taking my words out of context. GG.

Third, and finally: Repeating old taking points. In the conclusion of your nonsense rant, you repeat the debunked claim that Ashkenazis and Germans are superior intellects, which I already debunked. You then go on to triumphantly assert that I'm claiming your a "hopeless victim." This, as I've already mentioned, doesn't work. Did I ever say (ironically enough) that some cultures are inherently less intelligent than others? No. Did I say that areas that are in poverty for reasons including colonial oppression are disadvantaged? Yes. Does that mean there's such a thing as "white privilege?" No. Does that mean there are serious issues of economic equality globally, left from the scars of colonial exploitation? Yes. And that's the thing. All I am claiming in my argument is that you are making an unfair comparison, as Jews and Germans are in an exceptionally fantastic economic position, when compared to other groups. If we stripped away all economic burdens on every culture and then tried to measure how many intellectuals they had, you'd find all of them to have roughly equal rates of intellectuals per capita. Period. Do not try to say I am arguing anything else. This is not a game of race like you make it out to be, but rather a game of economics, where the best economies are also the brightest.

When you put people into positions of economic disadvantage, do you think they'll perform nearly as well as if they had no such problem? Of course not. By asserting otherwise, you have essentially tried to argue that things like slavery and colonialism bore no impact on dampening the bright minds of their time and ours. Just because it's difficult to erase a colonial legacy, does not mean it is impossible. And that is where you messed up. You forgot that one little fact, and that is why your argument fails. I did not claim that erasing the legacy of being conquered or being enslaved is impossible. I simply claimed that it was hard.

Rant over.

Lots of peoples once got conquered. Lots of peoples once got enslaved.

If you realize that most Jewish contributions to the world were made by Ashkenazis you will probably realize how serious the harm the Holocaust caused was. However even that failed to ruin Ashkenazi Jewry.

But again, the Holocaust lasted for a decade. Yes, it killed a lot of people (in one of the most tragic and horrific mass killings of the 20th century), but I'd argue it was truly too short to unleash it's full horrors upon the Jewish people. 6 million Jewish men and women died, and only 2.8 million lived. However, that same group was incredibly lucky in having this monstrous system not continue. Had it continued, Ashkenazis truly wouldn't be contributing as much to the world as they do now, in their fantastic economic position.

[Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire]

Btw before you think I'm some white American (relating to my previous post since you want to call me an SJW), I'm actually an Iranian-American. Iran's Islamist government sucks and should see a restoration of the Shah as constitutional monarch.

But that's not the point of the topic. Back to China!

Only in the minds of Nordicists and related white nationalists are Iranians not white in the same sense that it takes someone like me to claim that Northeast Asians and Southeast Asians are separate races. I really play by WN logic. If they can exclude less well-to-do members of their race with a different culture as a separate race I’m free to do the same.

I think in the long run any regime in Iran and whether they get along with Israelis, Anglos or any other groups of people such as Russians won’t have much difference. You guys will be fine.

Right on!

[Feline Goetland]

Lots of peoples once got conquered. Lots of peoples once got enslaved.

If you realize that most Jewish contributions to the world were made by Ashkenazis you will probably realize how serious the harm the Holocaust caused was. However even that failed to ruin Ashkenazi Jewry.

But again, the Holocaust lasted for a decade. Yes, it killed a lot of people (in one of the most tragic and horrific mass killings of the 20th century), but I'd argue it was truly too short to unleash it's full horrors upon the Jewish people. 6 million Jewish men and women died, and only 2.8 million lived. However, that same group was incredibly lucky in having this monstrous system not continue. Had it continued, Ashkenazis truly wouldn't be contributing as much to the world as they do now, in their fantastic economic position.

Well let’s assume that Hitler actually won. What would happen is that continental Ashkenazi Jewry would actually be exterminated but those in the New World and Australia will continue to do better than the majority. Moreover even the Axis partners of Hitler, Japan, Italy, Bulgaria etc did not have much interest about murdering Jews. That’s really a mostly German and Romanian monstrosity. So even in that scenario Ashkenazis being a market dominant minority would still continue while continental Europe including Germany would suffer from even more long-term consequences of absence of Jews.

Antisemitism is truly a form of self-harm. I mean, we can even try to quantify the harm caused by antisemitism to antisemites due to reduced GDP and reduced scientific output.