should there be compulsory military training in the UK?

[Ideal Britain]

Conscientious objectors
It's training, they're not being deployed to fight.
Northern Ireland
Those with terrrorist tendencies are small number of people who can already exercise the combat aspect of it through shooting ranges etc. if they're not convicted. And if they are don't train them.
Alternative service
The point is to promote awareness of how the military operates.

[Vassenor]

Conscientious objectors
It's training, they're not being deployed to fight.
Northern Ireland
Those with terrrorist tendencies are small number of people who can already exercise the combat aspect of it through shooting ranges etc. if they're not convicted. And if they are don't train them.
Alternative service
The point is to promote awareness of how the military operates.

And if knowing that is so vital how has our society been able to function perfectly well without it?

[Heloin]

You either can or can't have this effect the people of Northern Ireland. If you train the kid of a loyalist but bar the kid of a republican then you're showing preference towards one community, you can't do that without fuelling that fire again. But if you try and force Irish Catholic to do this then you'll throw fuel on that fire.

Sure they'll be pressed into the military training too but not any more or less than anyone else since it's indiscriminate. Are you trying to suggest that catholics are less loyal and thus should be watched and disenfranchised as a security risk? If you say so..

You can't vet for terrorist sympathies without creating terrorists in Northern Ireland. You try and force Irish Catholics to join up then you'll give fuel to the IRA. You try and bar Unionist from joining up then you'll see loyalist groups banding together into the UVF again. If you vet for terrorists sympathies then you'll give fuel to whichever side you vet against. If you don't vet anyone then you've trained up a bunch of young people for war on a deeply divided island.

[Novus America]

Unironically I think the book makes some excellent points. The movie is a cheesy satire, but to some degree, yes.
The book for example specifically mentions non military options being available, something not mentioned in the movie, which of course deliberately leaves out many subtle things, as well as white washing the main characters.
But anyways a detailed critique is only tangential to the topic.

I haven't read the book but I also agree with the general primise (again not to the 'turned up to 11' extent of the film) as it's the bases of the unritten 'social contract'.

I agree. The movie deliberately exaggerates it, adds fascist overtones not in the book and skips the anti-rascist message in the book, (also recklessly use the soldiers as cannon fodder) but the book lays out the detailed basis in social contract the movie only covers in a very cursory, exaggerated way. (Yes in the book actually the mobile infantry are an elite, well equipped force with full power armor, not early WWI style mass waves).

And jailing people who skip out is difficult and causes protests.
Simply making the vote contingent on it reduces the issues with protests as those not doing it get most constitutional rights, same as a resident alien but not voting.

Anyways it should have a non military alternative as well, for people unfit for or unwilling to do military service but still able to serve in another capacity.

[Heloin]

Northern Ireland
Those with terrrorist tendencies are small number of people who can already exercise the combat aspect of it through shooting ranges etc. if they're not convicted. And if they are don't train them.

Very few people these days are actually members of terrorist groups anymore. So what are the terrorist sympathies you'd actually be vetting for if you won't catch anyone who was actually in a terrorist group?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Conscientious objectors
It's training, they're not being deployed to fight.
Northern Ireland
Those with terrrorist tendencies are small number of people who can already exercise the combat aspect of it through shooting ranges etc. if they're not convicted. And if they are don't train them.
Alternative service
The point is to promote awareness of how the military operates.

Will you just answer my fucking question, are you going to make Irish Catholics in NI take part in compulsory military training for the British military in this idea of yours? And i dont want some snide stupid comment about those with "Terrorist tendencies" unless you are trying to imply Irish Catholics have Terrorist tendencies as a whole.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Northern Ireland
Those with terrrorist tendencies are small number of people who can already exercise the combat aspect of it through shooting ranges etc. if they're not convicted. And if they are don't train them.

Very few people these days are actually members of terrorist groups anymore. So what are the terrorist sympathies you'd actually be vetting for if you won't catch anyone who was actually in a terrorist group?

Im near certain at this point he is referring to Nationalists with this comment, despite the fact Loyalist terrorists are still active.

Oh wait no sorry i shouldnt mention them.

[SD_Film Artists]

Sure they'll be pressed into the military training too but not any more or less than anyone else since it's indiscriminate. Are you trying to suggest that catholics are less loyal and thus should be watched and disenfranchised as a security risk? If you say so..

You can't vet for terrorist sympathies without creating terrorists in Northern Ireland.

People are vetted all the time, the government to just expand that to the national service.

You try and force Irish Catholics to join up then you'll give fuel to the IRA.

If that fuel is "they're forcing us to do something that everyone else has to do anyway" then they're probably already IRA.

[The Huskar Social Union]

You can't vet for terrorist sympathies without creating terrorists in Northern Ireland.

People are vetted all the time, the government to just expand that to the national service.

You try and force Irish Catholics to join up then you'll give fuel to the IRA.

If that fuel is "they're forcing us to do something that everyone else has to do anyway" then they're probably already IRA.

Do you really not see the issue with forcing Irish Catholics to do military training for the British Military?

Because i sure as shit wouldnt fucking do it if i was physically fit enough and that most certainly does not make me IRA for giving off about it.

[Heloin]

You can't vet for terrorist sympathies without creating terrorists in Northern Ireland.

People are vetted all the time, the government to just expand that to the national service.

You try and force Irish Catholics to join up then you'll give fuel to the IRA.

If that fuel is "they're forcing us to do something that everyone else has to do anyway" then they're probably already IRA.

You seem to think your being clever, let me spell this out more clearly. If you force Northern Irish people to train to be soldiers you will train terrorists and bolster terrorist sympathies. If you vet for terrorist sympathies you will exclude either Unionist or Nationalists. There is literally no way of having compulsory military training in Northern Ireland without fuelling terrorism and sectarian violence.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

What are you going to do with all the people who refuse to take part, imprison them? It all seems very un-British to me.

[Novus America]

People are vetted all the time, the government to just expand that to the national service.



If that fuel is "they're forcing us to do something that everyone else has to do anyway" then they're probably already IRA.

Do you really not see the issue with forcing Irish Catholics to do military training for the British Military?

Because i sure as shit wouldnt fucking do it if i was physically fit enough and that most certainly does not make me IRA for giving off about it.

Would you object to doing a none military option such as say park conservation? Having a civilian alternative is not only possible, all EU countries with conscription have such.

And this is why you instead make the ability to vote dependent on it. That way people who are not invested in the system simply do not do it.

But I can see the argument for exempting NI as you did in the past. Although that has issues too.
One purpose of such a system is to build a common experience and get people to interact with people of other classes and races.

[The Huskar Social Union]

People are vetted all the time, the government to just expand that to the national service.



If that fuel is "they're forcing us to do something that everyone else has to do anyway" then they're probably already IRA.

You seem to think your being clever, let me spell this out more clearly. If you force Northern Irish people to train to be soldiers you will train terrorists and bolster terrorist sympathies. If you vet for terrorist sympathies you will exclude either Unionist or Nationalists. There is literally no way of having compulsory military training in Northern Ireland without fuelling terrorism and sectarian violence.

Imagine going to Derry and telling people who live in the Bogside they are going to do military training in the British Army starting next summer.

Or flip it, say in a United Ireland you go to the Shankill and tell people there they are doing military training in the Irish Defence Forces.

You would not get out alive because it would be such a stupid and volatile decision.

[Dominioan]

I would be okay with it if there were civil service opt-outs, and if it applies to everyone equally (besides like disabled people and stuff obviously)

[The Huskar Social Union]

Do you really not see the issue with forcing Irish Catholics to do military training for the British Military?

Because i sure as shit wouldnt fucking do it if i was physically fit enough and that most certainly does not make me IRA for giving off about it.

Would you object to doing a none military option such as say park conservation? Having a civilian alternative is not only possible, all EU countries with conscription have such.

And this is why you instead make the ability to vote dependent on it. That way people who are not invested in the system simply do not do it.

But I can see the argument for exempting NI as you did in the past. Although that has issues too.
One purpose of such a system is to build a common experience and get people to interact with people of other classes and races.

A civilian alternative? Thats different, and would depend on exactly the nature of said alternative.

But the British military? Not a chance.

[The New California Republic]

Lol no.

[Novus America]

What are you going to do with all the people who refuse to take part, imprison them? It all seems very un-British to me.

Not sure how un British it is considering Britain has a long history of compulsory service, under different guises.
But the best way is to simply say they cannot get certain benefits, rather than actually jailing them. Carrot not stick.
And have non-military options.

This is not a novel concept, several countries have such systems.

[Dominioan]

I would be okay with it if there were civil service opt-outs, and if it applies to everyone equally (besides like disabled people and stuff obviously)

But I’m not British and this is just my in general opinion on compulsory military stuff.

[Heloin]

You seem to think your being clever, let me spell this out more clearly. If you force Northern Irish people to train to be soldiers you will train terrorists and bolster terrorist sympathies. If you vet for terrorist sympathies you will exclude either Unionist or Nationalists. There is literally no way of having compulsory military training in Northern Ireland without fuelling terrorism and sectarian violence.

Imagine going to Derry and telling people who live in the Bogside they are going to do military training in the British Army starting next summer.

Or flip it, say in a United Ireland you go to the Shankill and tell people there they are doing military training in the Irish Defence Forces.

You would not get out alive because it would be such a stupid and volatile decision.

I'm thinking about going up the Falls Road and telling people about a wonder of serving in the Queens Army.

[Ideal Britain]

People are vetted all the time, the government to just expand that to the national service.



If that fuel is "they're forcing us to do something that everyone else has to do anyway" then they're probably already IRA.

Do you really not see the issue with forcing Irish Catholics to do military training for the British Military?

Because i sure as shit wouldnt fucking do it if i was physically fit enough and that most certainly does not make me IRA for giving off about it.

Why would you not?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

What are you going to do with all the people who refuse to take part, imprison them? It all seems very un-British to me.

Not sure how un British it is considering Britain has a long history of compulsory service, under different guises.
But the best way is to simply say they cannot get certain benefits, rather than actually jailing them. Carrot not stick.
And have non-military options.

This is not a novel concept, several countries have such systems.

We had conscription for four years during the first world war and about twenty years for the second and after. Most of the time we don't have conscription, hence it being un-British.

[The Rich Port]

IMO an armed, informed, trained populace isn't just excellent for foreign defense but for domestic defense against tyranny as well.

Of course one wonders if this isn't just an excuse to indoctrinate people into preserving the status quo.

[Ideal Britain]

IMO an armed, informed, trained populace isn't just excellent for foreign defense but for domestic defense against tyranny as well.

Of course one wonders if this isn't just an excuse to indoctrinate people into preserving the status quo.

1. yes, actually.

2. No because political ideology isn't taught at Army, Royal Navy or RAF basic training

[Novus America]

Would you object to doing a none military option such as say park conservation? Having a civilian alternative is not only possible, all EU countries with conscription have such.

And this is why you instead make the ability to vote dependent on it. That way people who are not invested in the system simply do not do it.

But I can see the argument for exempting NI as you did in the past. Although that has issues too.
One purpose of such a system is to build a common experience and get people to interact with people of other classes and races.

A civilian alternative? Thats different, and would depend on exactly the nature of said alternative.

But the British military? Not a chance.

All EU countries have alternative civilian service if they have mandatory military training/service.
As it is mandated by the EU to have such an alternative for conscientious objectors.

But given you are open to the idea of an alternative, that seems an approach to take. The details of the alternative are open, but widely used options would be medical and firefighting, other civil defense emergency service, environmental/forestry/parkland service or restoration, etc.
I believe in keeping a good variety of options available as it makes sure people can best provide the community service in a way beat suited for their interests and abilities.

Not everyone is best suited for military service.
The military might be the main, default option, but other options should be available.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Do you really not see the issue with forcing Irish Catholics to do military training for the British Military?

Because i sure as shit wouldnt fucking do it if i was physically fit enough and that most certainly does not make me IRA for giving off about it.

Why would you not?

Why would an Irishman from Belfast whose community suffered massacres and abuse at the hands of the British military only a few decades ago not wana take part in military training in the British military?


Oh gee, probably because i dont like their camouflage options i'd say.