Australian Political & Infrastructure Discussion Thread

[Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts]

Personally, while I don't think Scotty's leadership through COVID has been....great, at least it's better than what he was doing in the bushfires. The Coalition still have a recession and robodebt crisis to deal with though......

[Nouveau Yathrib]

Personally, while I don't think Scotty's leadership through COVID has been....great, at least it's better than what he was doing in the bushfires. The Coalition still have a recession and robodebt crisis to deal with though......

Why has the Coalition done so well in elections recently, and who comprise their voter base? As an international observer, it seems like Australia has been under Coalition/center-right leadership for most of the last 10 years.

[Australian rePublic]

Personally, while I don't think Scotty's leadership through COVID has been....great, at least it's better than what he was doing in the bushfires. The Coalition still have a recession and robodebt crisis to deal with though......

What do you think he could have done better?

[Shrillland]

Personally, while I don't think Scotty's leadership through COVID has been....great, at least it's better than what he was doing in the bushfires. The Coalition still have a recession and robodebt crisis to deal with though......

Why has the Coalition done so well in elections recently, and who comprise their voter base? As an international observer, it seems like Australia has been under Coalition/center-right leadership for most of the last 10 years.

Mostly because Labor's been pretty weak for most of the period. It's fallen into some of the same problems that centre-left parties are facing worldwide, a growing divide between the centre-left and the left(not even the far left), identity crises due to the growth of environmental issues forcing them to choose one key over another, and an overall shift in who's supporting them. The Left is no longer seen as the ideology of the working class but of the professional classes, and Australia's seen it no less than the rest of the world.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Personally, while I don't think Scotty's leadership through COVID has been....great, at least it's better than what he was doing in the bushfires. The Coalition still have a recession and robodebt crisis to deal with though......

What do you think he could have done better?

Anyone could have done better. It's hard to disengage hindsight when thinking "what would I have done then?"

Pretending you don't know what happened since really is not much use. We get a better idea what one of us would really have done if we remember or look up what we said at the time.

Which in my case was probably something wise like "all run into the desert screaming ... oh and take water"

[Albrenia]

The Coalition has probably done the best of any conservative government I know of in the handling of the pandemic - they avoided following Trump's moronic lead (which even Boris Johnson followed until reality smacked him back down to earth) and the fact that they ousted poisonous people like Abbott probably helped them retain power.

Also, as stated before, Labour is having a crisis of identity right now, and has no leaders who reach beyond 'meh' level of charisma ready to step up to lead.

[Australian rePublic]

What do you think he could have done better?

Anyone could have done better. It's hard to disengage hindsight when thinking "what would I have done then?"

Pretending you don't know what happened since really is not much use. We get a better idea what one of us would really have done if we remember or look up what we said at the time.

Which in my case was probably something wise like "all run into the desert screaming ... oh and take water"

Nothing that happened was the fault of Scomo though. He handled this excellently. The only things that I would have done differently if I were him was closing international borders earlier. Other than that, I really can't find much else to criticise. Yes, Victoria and South Australia both had outbreaks, however, these were caused by poor state leadership which had nothing to do with the federal governmeny. NSW also had a second spew of the virus, whicu was also the fault of our government for not closing the borders to Victoria earlier, none of this was the fault of Scomo. People point to New Zealand and say that we should have done what they did, but keep in mind that New Zealand is a far away country with 4 million and no states to argue with. The national governmnet calls all the shots. And yet, they still had 2 outbreaks after the intial outbreak, totalling a total of 3 outbreaks. Meanwhile, in Australia, every state has had a maximum of two outbreaks, without disembowling our economy in the process. I therefore implore the same question- what do you consider that Scomo did wrong? The rest of the world is looking at us with envy. Western Australia had no second outbreak, neither did Queensland, the Northern Territory, Tasmania nor the ACT. New South Wales' second outbreak was brought under control, and South Australia is bringing their second outbreak under control as we speak. Victoria, an ALP state, was the only state who had a significant second outbreak, which was due to the incompetence of the state, not the federal government. I'll therefore ask again, with true sincerity, what should have Scomo done? "Everybody knows what he should have done" is not an answer. I genuinely don't know what Scomo should have done differently, and if you're so sure about what he should have done differently, why didn't you give a proper response instead of "everyone knows what he should have done better". Well if everyone knows, then why can't you express it for us dumbshits like me

[Australian rePublic]

Personally, while I don't think Scotty's leadership through COVID has been....great, at least it's better than what he was doing in the bushfires. The Coalition still have a recession and robodebt crisis to deal with though......

Scomo's handlng of the bushfires was completely horrible. Imagine fucking off for a holiday overseas, whilst the nation that you rule is suffering through the worst natural disaster in all gloabal news networks.

[Dazchan]

Anyone could have done better. It's hard to disengage hindsight when thinking "what would I have done then?"

Pretending you don't know what happened since really is not much use. We get a better idea what one of us would really have done if we remember or look up what we said at the time.

Which in my case was probably something wise like "all run into the desert screaming ... oh and take water"

Nothing that happened was the fault of Scomo though. He handled this excellently. The only things that I would have done differently if I were him was closing international borders earlier. Other than that, I really can't find much else to criticise. Yes, Victoria and South Australia both had outbreaks, however, these were caused by poor state leadership which had nothing to do with the federal governmeny. NSW also had a second spew of the virus, whicu was also the fault of our government for not closing the borders to Victoria earlier, none of this was the fault of Scomo. People point to New Zealand and say that we should have done what they did, but keep in mind that New Zealand is a far away country with 4 million and no states to argue with. The national governmnet calls all the shots. And yet, they still had 2 outbreaks after the intial outbreak, totalling a total of 3 outbreaks. Meanwhile, in Australia, every state has had a maximum of two outbreaks, without disembowling our economy in the process. I therefore implore the same question- what do you consider that Scomo did wrong? The rest of the world is looking at us with envy. Western Australia had no second outbreak, neither did Queensland, the Northern Territory, Tasmania nor the ACT. New South Wales' second outbreak was brought under control, and South Australia is bringing their second outbreak under control as we speak. Victoria, an ALP state, was the only state who had a significant second outbreak, which was due to the incompetence of the state, not the federal government. I'll therefore ask again, with true sincerity, what should have Scomo done? "Everybody knows what he should have done" is not an answer. I genuinely don't know what Scomo should have done differently, and if you're so sure about what he should have done differently, why didn't you give a proper response instead of "everyone knows what he should have done better". Well if everyone knows, then why can't you express it for us dumbshits like me

Not allowing the infected people of the Ruby Princess to enter the country without quarantine, and without recording their details for contact tracing.

[Australian rePublic]

Nothing that happened was the fault of Scomo though. He handled this excellently. The only things that I would have done differently if I were him was closing international borders earlier. Other than that, I really can't find much else to criticise. Yes, Victoria and South Australia both had outbreaks, however, these were caused by poor state leadership which had nothing to do with the federal governmeny. NSW also had a second spew of the virus, whicu was also the fault of our government for not closing the borders to Victoria earlier, none of this was the fault of Scomo. People point to New Zealand and say that we should have done what they did, but keep in mind that New Zealand is a far away country with 4 million and no states to argue with. The national governmnet calls all the shots. And yet, they still had 2 outbreaks after the intial outbreak, totalling a total of 3 outbreaks. Meanwhile, in Australia, every state has had a maximum of two outbreaks, without disembowling our economy in the process. I therefore implore the same question- what do you consider that Scomo did wrong? The rest of the world is looking at us with envy. Western Australia had no second outbreak, neither did Queensland, the Northern Territory, Tasmania nor the ACT. New South Wales' second outbreak was brought under control, and South Australia is bringing their second outbreak under control as we speak. Victoria, an ALP state, was the only state who had a significant second outbreak, which was due to the incompetence of the state, not the federal government. I'll therefore ask again, with true sincerity, what should have Scomo done? "Everybody knows what he should have done" is not an answer. I genuinely don't know what Scomo should have done differently, and if you're so sure about what he should have done differently, why didn't you give a proper response instead of "everyone knows what he should have done better". Well if everyone knows, then why can't you express it for us dumbshits like me

Not allowing the infected people of the Ruby Princess to enter the country without quarantine, and without recording their details for contact tracing.

Yes, that was a big fuck up, but that was a state fuck up, not a federal one. There's a reason why I call my premier "Ruby Princess Gladys"

[Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts]

Clive Palmer really went gentle into that good night on Halloween.

I'd be happier if he and the UAP spent their campaign money telling their people why they should vote for them, THEM, the reason he splurged $60 million on his campaign which included a gimmicky mobile game, last federal election!

Judging by the way he tried to get WA to open up, it seems as his reputation has become more and more tarnished, he's a lot more desperate and bossy nowadays - only he always comes off second-best and as Australia's most mocked politician.

[Albrenia]

Clive Palmer really went gentle into that good night on Halloween.

I'd be happier if he and the UAP spent their campaign money telling their people why they should vote for them, THEM, the reason he splurged $60 million on his campaign which included a gimmicky mobile game, last federal election!

Judging by the way he tried to get WA to open up, it seems as his reputation has become more and more tarnished, he's a lot more desperate and bossy nowadays - only he always comes off second-best and as Australia's most mocked politician.

He's Aussie Trump without any of the 'charisma' that Trump manages to bring to task.

Last election's finest moment was seeing him eat dirt hard, barely getting any votes despite his splurge.

[Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts]

Clive Palmer really went gentle into that good night on Halloween.

I'd be happier if he and the UAP spent their campaign money telling their people why they should vote for them, THEM, the reason he splurged $60 million on his campaign which included a gimmicky mobile game, last federal election!

Judging by the way he tried to get WA to open up, it seems as his reputation has become more and more tarnished, he's a lot more desperate and bossy nowadays - only he always comes off second-best and as Australia's most mocked politician.

He's Aussie Trump without any of the 'charisma' that Trump manages to bring to task.

Last election's finest moment was seeing him eat dirt hard, barely getting any votes despite his splurge.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
He's an incompliant hot air balloon at best; at worst he's a shouty billionaire with no interests in improving the country in any way. It's why the UAP 's fallen apart, to the point where he became a vehicle for LNP promotion during the Queensland state election.

No wonder he doesn't get a single seat - in federal or state.

[Amorosa-Coonarra Coasts]

This isn't an attack, I respect your opinions and responses.

It's just a little hard to appease everyone's points, that's all.

I genuinely do think all the states and Scott could have done some things better than they did, like the Ruby Princess, Stage 4 lockdown, and taking a little longer to close international borders, but there are a plethora of examples of positive contribution to managing COVID-19:

- WA refusing to let Clive Palmer in. (btw I think he's a bigger doofus than anyone in the LNP, ALP or Indp/Minor Parties combined)

- Anna keeping the borders shut for a while (due to COVID cases growing in Sydney, although Anna did keep it shut a little longer than expected)

- The NT being so remotely populated that COVID cases are few and in between.

- The Government actually trying to contain novel coronavirus with things like closing borders, hotel isolation and contact tracing.

I'm at least glad we're not America. So long-a Donald!

P.S. Scomo actually did try.

[Dazchan]

Not allowing the infected people of the Ruby Princess to enter the country without quarantine, and without recording their details for contact tracing.

Yes, that was a big fuck up, but that was a state fuck up, not a federal one. There's a reason why I call my premier "Ruby Princess Gladys"

It’s been a while since I’ve travelled internationally, but I’m pretty sure customs, quarantine and border control are all federal responsibilities.

[FNU]

And I thought America was going Down under

[Kenobot]

FriendlyJordies is an apologist for the Uyghur Concentration Camps and a bad faith commentator who, much like the very people he derides, will bend over backwards to explain away anything Labor ever does. Two wrongs don't make a right.


Dysfunction in the opposition and a poor leader/opposition office team as well as the collapse of One Nation in Queensland handed the election to Labor long before Coronavirus rocked up.


Except they're the elected government; privatisation is literally part of the whole package deal you get when electing them. Don't be shocked when they do what they said they'd do.

The Nationals didn't steal the water from the Murray-Darling; there were a number of landholders who were Charged by the NRAR for their actions.

Again, both parties stack commissions with their own people; selectively singling out the Liberals for that isn't really fair

Ok and defence contracts are incredibly important in a world where Trump is US President, Xi is Chinese President and Putin is Russian President. The international order is slowly falling apart and the UN is becoming as relevant as the League of Nations as the anarchic nature of International Relations returns. I for one would not be interested in kowtowing and becoming a puppet for any of them. Having sovereign capabilities is incredibly important and we can't afford to forget that. A few years ago one member of the Cabinet spoke anonymously to the ABC following an incident involving the US and said that if the US pulled out of Asia, "We'd have more to worry about than Gonski" or some other program. Social programs, education and such are important, but when it comes down to it the most basic role of the state is to defend its citizens.

I too was disappointed by the downgrade of the NBN, however this decision has recently been reversed; perhaps too late, but better than never.

I asked the host of this forum, and I'll ask you, just out of curiosity:

Where does your hate for Jordies come from?
And where is your info sourced from? SMH, IA, Daily Tellie, Herald Sun, Finny Rev, anything like that?
(I'm only curious)

Australian rePublic does not endorse my opinions, nor do I. We have differing opinions on #AusPolitics and that is completely fine.

Apologies for the quite late response. In fairness I do support the party he opposes, but I source my information from ABC and Fairfax generally speaking. With regards to him and the concentration camp apologist stuff, it was on his podcast a month or two ago.

Snip

The NBN wasn't sabotaged to help Murdoch; it was sabotaged to help the budget bottom line. Ironically enough, ended up blowing out anyway but that's the power of hindsight.
If I had my way, we'd be breaking up the media oligopoly, so I'm no Murdoch apologist, but I think it's a bit of a simplification to blame him for all our ills. Sometimes it is ideology or incompetence. Goes both ways too; Rudd courted Murdoch for a while back in '07, so I do find it amusing that he now comes railing against him. Obviously should put that aside to try and achieve the goal of change in media laws, but I'm not holding my breath there.

australian rePublic, you're probably right. but tbh while I do find the LNP's antics (and some of the ALP's) and other parties deplorable, what's even more deplorable is the blatant Mainstream Media corruption that lets it go (mostly) unnoticed.

All major political parties are corrupt to some degree

Either that or A Current Affair, which is the most laughable show on Australian free-to-air TV, will ignore it in favour of discussing whether or not Woolworths's latest deals are 'lit'.

A Currrent Affair isn't a news program. It's a neighbourhood wars-themed reality TV show with the occasional product placement

But honestly, and i don't think I'm the only one, but I'd be impressed if FJ can actually come up with some decent critiques of Labor regarding this donation law stuff. While it wouldn't be a complete change, at least it'd present a more balanced view of the issue.

Just because someone is able something doesn't necessarily mean that they're willing to. Notice how he always interviews ALP members and talks about all the good things they do, and never interviews LNP members? I have reason to suspect that he's on the ALP payroll

Can confirm. As someone involved in politics quite a bit; it's pretty disgusting hearing the whispers about what goes on.

Personally, while I don't think Scotty's leadership through COVID has been....great, at least it's better than what he was doing in the bushfires. The Coalition still have a recession and robodebt crisis to deal with though......

You're kidding, right? Scomo is gonna romp home the next federal election (Probably held in roughly a years' time, if not by May 2022). What's Labor got on offer? More leadership trouble because they have no cut through, very little policy differentiation and nothing to attack ad Scomo with. The general public have forgiven Scomo for the bushfires after his exemplary leadership during COVID and will reward him with (I suspect) an increased majority if things continue the way they are.

Personally, while I don't think Scotty's leadership through COVID has been....great, at least it's better than what he was doing in the bushfires. The Coalition still have a recession and robodebt crisis to deal with though......

Why has the Coalition done so well in elections recently, and who comprise their voter base? As an international observer, it seems like Australia has been under Coalition/center-right leadership for most of the last 10 years.

Older voters, business community, swing voters concerned about the economy and national security. That's generally the formula

Yes, that was a big fuck up, but that was a state fuck up, not a federal one. There's a reason why I call my premier "Ruby Princess Gladys"

It’s been a while since I’ve travelled internationally, but I’m pretty sure customs, quarantine and border control are all federal responsibilities.

The inquiry found it was the responsibility of a NSW Health official who gave the passengers the all clear to go without any testing done let alone quarantine.

[Australian rePublic]

FriendlyJordies is an apologist for the Uyghur Concentration Camps and a bad faith commentator who, much like the very people he derides, will bend over backwards to explain away anything Labor ever does. Two wrongs don't make a right.


Dysfunction in the opposition and a poor leader/opposition office team as well as the collapse of One Nation in Queensland handed the election to Labor long before Coronavirus rocked up.


Except they're the elected government; privatisation is literally part of the whole package deal you get when electing them. Don't be shocked when they do what they said they'd do.

The Nationals didn't steal the water from the Murray-Darling; there were a number of landholders who were Charged by the NRAR for their actions.

Again, both parties stack commissions with their own people; selectively singling out the Liberals for that isn't really fair

Ok and defence contracts are incredibly important in a world where Trump is US President, Xi is Chinese President and Putin is Russian President. The international order is slowly falling apart and the UN is becoming as relevant as the League of Nations as the anarchic nature of International Relations returns. I for one would not be interested in kowtowing and becoming a puppet for any of them. Having sovereign capabilities is incredibly important and we can't afford to forget that. A few years ago one member of the Cabinet spoke anonymously to the ABC following an incident involving the US and said that if the US pulled out of Asia, "We'd have more to worry about than Gonski" or some other program. Social programs, education and such are important, but when it comes down to it the most basic role of the state is to defend its citizens.

I too was disappointed by the downgrade of the NBN, however this decision has recently been reversed; perhaps too late, but better than never.

I asked the host of this forum, and I'll ask you, just out of curiosity:

Where does your hate for Jordies come from?
And where is your info sourced from? SMH, IA, Daily Tellie, Herald Sun, Finny Rev, anything like that?
(I'm only curious)

Australian rePublic does not endorse my opinions, nor do I. We have differing opinions on #AusPolitics and that is completely fine.

My "hatred" of Friemdlyjordies doesn't come from anywhere other than looking at his working and seeing how pro-ALP it is. As I said earlier, I actually watch many of his videos to get differing perspectives on politics. I'm not going to make claims about FJ says without seeing it for myself. Where does your (for lack of a better word) worship of FJ come from?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Anyone could have done better. It's hard to disengage hindsight when thinking "what would I have done then?"

Pretending you don't know what happened since really is not much use. We get a better idea what one of us would really have done if we remember or look up what we said at the time.

Which in my case was probably something wise like "all run into the desert screaming ... oh and take water"

Nothing that happened was the fault of Scomo though. He handled this excellently. The only things that I would have done differently if I were him was closing international borders earlier.

Morrison spent a year as Minister for Immigration under Abbott. He launched Operation Sovereign Borders in 2013.

Yet when not one but two huge ships sailed into Australian ports, it didn't even cross his mind to Stop The Boats. No, the Premiers can handle that. Or not. Hmm.

Other than that, I really can't find much else to criticise. Yes, Victoria and South Australia both had outbreaks, however, these were caused by poor state leadership which had nothing to do with the federal governmeny. NSW also had a second spew of the virus, whicu was also the fault of our government for not closing the borders to Victoria earlier, none of this was the fault of Scomo. People point to New Zealand and say that we should have done what they did, but keep in mind that New Zealand is a far away country with 4 million and no states to argue with.

New Zealand has advantages we do not, and I've never argued otherwise. The size of their population is irrelevant, rather they only have one big city. They don't have states, they do have rivalry between North and South Islands though. Also they have the Maori, who really don't like government telling them what to do.

The national governmnet calls all the shots. And yet, they still had 2 outbreaks after the intial outbreak, totalling a total of 3 outbreaks. Meanwhile, in Australia, every state has had a maximum of two outbreaks, without disembowling our economy in the process.

New Zealand has managed better than we have. 343 cases per million for NZ. 1090 cases per million for Aus.

A cross comparison with total number of tests shows either NZ or Fiji as the best in the world. But never mind, we're up next. Because they got onto it early Taiwan have the best rate, but I always urge people not to compare their country with Taiwan, because we all lost the option to be like them back in ... January actually. Small island nations, and Iceland which isn't so small, also have good figures. Really what it shows is that very small population means very few visitors or returning citizens, in a given week or month, and luck takes it from there. New Zealand isn't that small, also they (had) lots of population exchange with Australia and tourism from everywhere.

I do think being small-ish probably helps in that the people are more responsive to what their national governments asks of them. Kinda like a state but with without having to share power with a government above that.

I therefore implore the same question- what do you consider that Scomo did wrong? The rest of the world is looking at us with envy.

Not if they're aware of New Zealand, Iceland or Taiwan, they're not.

Western Australia had no second outbreak, neither did Queensland, the Northern Territory, Tasmania nor the ACT. New South Wales' second outbreak was brought under control, and South Australia is bringing their second outbreak under control as we speak. Victoria, an ALP state, was the only state who had a significant second outbreak, which was due to the incompetence of the state, not the federal government.

They goofed with the security guards, but they tried postcode lockdowns (afaik, no government anywhere has tried locking down that way) and those worked. How about you show how the Victorian government's management actually caused the outbreak?

"It didn't happen anywhere else" won't cut it when there are only 5 states and 2 territories. You'd need more AND another outbreak state, to establish a pattern. To me it looks like accident: virus doing what viruses do, taking opportunities no-one realized were there.

I'll therefore ask again, with true sincerity, what should have Scomo done?

He should have stopped the boats. He should have turned on his TV and seen multiple cruise liners with covid epidemics aboard, noticed the preponderance of Princess Lines which mainly sails from Australia, and that two of that line were due to dock in Australian ports (Sydney and Perth). He should have made sure the Premiers were exercising due caution and offered them Federal support.

You know the first thing all those passengers did after setting foot on dry land? The went through Federal Customs.

"Everybody knows what he should have done" is not an answer. I genuinely don't know what Scomo should have done differently, and if you're so sure about what he should have done differently, why didn't you give a proper response instead of "everyone knows what he should have done better". Well if everyone knows, then why can't you express it for us dumbshits like me

Calm down, eh? I've told you he should have stopped the boats, he should also within a week provided JobKeeper to recently hired casual workers. He seems a bit sorry about this.

Now why are you so critical of Andrews but willing to give Berejiklian the benefit of the doubt, when it was her government that did nothing about a bunch of sick people disembarking the Ruby Princess and wandering off, catching public transport and planes?

[Chemgota]

What's going on mates? What are we discussing about today? I live in Melbourne and I've been at school only for 3 weeks, considering the fact the Premier left it a bit late as I am now entering Year 10 for two weeks until I'm out for Christmas Holidays. Holidays where exactly? Probably no where at this rate.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

What's going on mates? What are we discussing about today? I live in Melbourne and I've been at school only for 3 weeks, considering the fact the Premier left it a bit late as I am now entering Year 10 for two weeks until I'm out for Christmas Holidays. Holidays where exactly? Probably no where at this rate.

You could probably go bushwalking, if you do that. It's great fun until your battery runs out!

[Mathuvan Union]

What's going on mates? What are we discussing about today? I live in Melbourne and I've been at school only for 3 weeks, considering the fact the Premier left it a bit late as I am now entering Year 10 for two weeks until I'm out for Christmas Holidays. Holidays where exactly? Probably no where at this rate.

fucking hell I miss year 10.
I'm stuck cramming for tests...

What's going on mates? What are we discussing about today? I live in Melbourne and I've been at school only for 3 weeks, considering the fact the Premier left it a bit late as I am now entering Year 10 for two weeks until I'm out for Christmas Holidays. Holidays where exactly? Probably no where at this rate.

You could probably go bushwalking, if you do that. It's great fun until your battery runs out!

this has happened to me before ;-;

[Dazchan]

It’s been a while since I’ve travelled internationally, but I’m pretty sure customs, quarantine and border control are all federal responsibilities.

The inquiry found it was the responsibility of a NSW Health official who gave the passengers the all clear to go without any testing done let alone quarantine.

That would be the inquiry that the federal government refused to take part in?

Does it not concern you that there was no record taken by customs officials of who entered the country on that day, where they went and how to contact them? That should be standard procedure even when there isn’t a pandemic.

[Imperial isa]

There's a reason why I call my premier "Ruby Princess Gladys"

That being too nice.

Side note funny how she tried to make everyone look the other way by saying we should change some words in the anthem.

[Mathuvan Union]

There's a reason why I call my premier "Ruby Princess Gladys"

That being too nice.

Side note funny how she tried to make everyone look the other way by saying we should change some words in the anthem.

I really lack confidence in NSW these days.