[UPDATE] Charlie Hebdo targeted AGAIN

[West Leas Oros 2]

This seems one-sided and quite frankly, naive. Why should Islam not be up for scrutiny when other religions are?

Interesting how nowhere in the post you quoted was any advocacy of an exemption for Islam.

Why should we have to tread lightly with Islam to keep from being shot?

Not getting shot seems to be a pretty good incentive...

Why should we respect the beliefs of people who don't respect our own?

Ridiculing others' beliefs only encourages insularity and fundamentalism.

I don't see the post saying other religions need to be coddled. If so, that's even worse.

So now you're victim blaming. "If these cartoonists didn't want to get shot, they should have just not spoke their minds". You realize you are giving the terrorists what they want. Coercion is what terrorism is about. We should not let ourselves be cowed into submission.

News flash, if you're willing to commit murder because someone criticized your religion, it's safe to say you were already an insular fundamentalist. By refusing to accept criticism, we are giving fundamentalists the chance to create an echo chamber where criticism is met with violence.

[Sanghyeok]

Just because something can be criticized doesn't mean you should. It is perfectly legal to talk in disparaging way about LGBT, for example, but it is something you should not do, because it's wrong. If we are to be a tolerant society, people should exercise common sense. And free speech must be limited.

This seems one-sided and quite frankly, naive. Why should Islam not be up for scrutiny when other religions are? Why should we have to tread lightly with Islam to keep from being shot? Why should we respect the beliefs of people who don't respect our own? We shouldn't be bullied and coerced into silence on fear of death.

I never said any religion in particular. I don't exactly condone making fun of Jesus, burning the Torah, and so on. Generally, given that religion is such an important part of many people's identity, we should try to respect their preferences, so long as it does not harm anyone else. I am the first to call out fundamentalists when they threaten LGBT, women's rights, and scientific progress. And I dislike many religious organizations, such as the Catholic church, or Saudis. But I do think we should be tolerant of other's beliefs, again as long as they don't threaten other's freedom.

[Neutraligon]

This seems one-sided and quite frankly, naive. Why should Islam not be up for scrutiny when other religions are? Why should we have to tread lightly with Islam to keep from being shot? Why should we respect the beliefs of people who don't respect our own? We shouldn't be bullied and coerced into silence on fear of death.

I never said any religion in particular. I don't exactly condone making fun of Jesus, burning the Torah, and so on. Generally, given that religion is such an important part of many people's identity, we should try to respect their preferences, so long as it does not harm anyone else. I am the first to call out fundamentalists when they threaten LGBT, women's rights, and scientific progress. And I dislike many religious organizations, such as the Catholic church, or Saudis. But I do think we should be tolerant of other's beliefs, again as long as they don't threaten other's freedom.

No, religion should get no more respect then any other idea. In fact given how important so many people feel religion is, religion should get more scrutiny, because the tenants of those religions tend to have a great deal of impact on people.

[West Leas Oros 2]

This seems one-sided and quite frankly, naive. Why should Islam not be up for scrutiny when other religions are? Why should we have to tread lightly with Islam to keep from being shot? Why should we respect the beliefs of people who don't respect our own? We shouldn't be bullied and coerced into silence on fear of death.

I never said any religion in particular. I don't exactly condone making fun of Jesus, burning the Torah, and so on. Generally, given that religion is such an important part of many people's identity, we should try to respect their preferences, so long as it does not harm anyone else. I am the first to call out fundamentalists when they threaten LGBT, women's rights, and scientific progress. And I dislike many religious organizations, such as the Catholic church, or Saudis. But I do think we should be tolerant of other's beliefs, again as long as they don't threaten other's freedom.

That's precisely what terrorism is, a threat to others freedom. As such, we should not be cowed into refusing to criticize religion. That represents a philosophy of might makes right, and funny enough, religions of all stripes denounce might makes right.

[Kowani]

I don't see the post saying other religions need to be coddled. If so, that's even worse.

...What?

So now you're victim blaming. "If these cartoonists didn't want to get shot, they should have just not spoke their minds". You realize you are giving the terrorists what they want. Coercion is what terrorism is about. We should not let ourselves be cowed into submission.

When a group has a long established pattern of reacting in a particular way to a stimulus, you should not be surprised when they do not change when met with the same stimulus.

News flash, if you're willing to commit murder because someone criticized your religion, it's safe to say you were already an insular fundamentalist. By refusing to accept criticism, we are giving fundamentalists the chance to create an echo chamber where criticism is met with violence.

Let's think for a second. Let's think reallyhard.
There are fundamentalist Muslims in the West.
There are moderate Muslims in the West.
If you start ridiculing Islam, will the moderate Muslims be pushed towards mainstream society or fundamentalism?

[Sanghyeok]

I never said any religion in particular. I don't exactly condone making fun of Jesus, burning the Torah, and so on. Generally, given that religion is such an important part of many people's identity, we should try to respect their preferences, so long as it does not harm anyone else. I am the first to call out fundamentalists when they threaten LGBT, women's rights, and scientific progress. And I dislike many religious organizations, such as the Catholic church, or Saudis. But I do think we should be tolerant of other's beliefs, again as long as they don't threaten other's freedom.

No, religion should get no more respect then any other idea. In fact given how important so many people feel religion is, religion should get more scrutiny, because the tenants of those religions tend to have a great deal of impact on people.

I do think religion should receive more scrutiny, as in what is being taught and how. But in my opinion, this is more of a organization issue with the churches themselves, given that religions in general are open to interpretation and the leaders at the top are influencing followers.

[Anglo-Francia]

Let's think for a second. Let's think reallyhard.
There are fundamentalist Muslims in the West.
There are moderate Muslims in the West.
If you start ridiculing Islam, will the moderate Muslims be pushed towards mainstream society or fundamentalism?

I'm a moderate Muslim in the West, and the answer is mainstream society.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I don't see the post saying other religions need to be coddled. If so, that's even worse.

...What?

So now you're victim blaming. "If these cartoonists didn't want to get shot, they should have just not spoke their minds". You realize you are giving the terrorists what they want. Coercion is what terrorism is about. We should not let ourselves be cowed into submission.

When a group has a long established pattern of reacting in a particular way to a stimulus, you should not be surprised when they do not change when met with the same stimulus.

News flash, if you're willing to commit murder because someone criticized your religion, it's safe to say you were already an insular fundamentalist. By refusing to accept criticism, we are giving fundamentalists the chance to create an echo chamber where criticism is met with violence.

Let's think for a second. Let's think reallyhard.
There are fundamentalist Muslims in the West.
There are moderate Muslims in the West.
If you start ridiculing Islam, will the moderate Muslims be pushed towards mainstream society or fundamentalism?

You're literally justifying terrorism on grounds of "the cartoonists should have just shut up and let terrorists bully them into silence because they provoked them." It's clear you are arguing in bad faith. It is not the fault of the cartoonists for being shot at, and no amount of excuses changes that. You are defending coercion and violence. Religious freedom should not be abridged in order to appease fundamentalists.

[Washington Resistance Army]

When a group has a long established pattern of reacting in a particular way to a stimulus, you should not be surprised when they do not change when met with the same stimulus.

The question then becomes is the problem the stimuli, or the group reacting to the stimuli?

[West Leas Oros 2]

When a group has a long established pattern of reacting in a particular way to a stimulus, you should not be surprised when they do not change when met with the same stimulus.

The question then becomes is the problem the stimuli, or the group reacting to the stimuli?

To claim it is the stimulus is, in my opinion, tantamount to apologism.

[Kowani]

You're literally justifying terrorism on grounds of "the cartoonists should have just shut up and let terrorists bully them into silence because they provoked them."

Just once, I would like to be able to explain the causes of something without accusations of justifying that thing.
It would be a welcome change of pace.

It's clear you are arguing in bad faith. It is not the fault of the cartoonists for being shot at, and no amount of excuses changes that. You are defending coercion and violence. Religious freedom should not be abridged in order to appease fundamentalists.

Have you considered calming down and actually reading what I write?

When a group has a long established pattern of reacting in a particular way to a stimulus, you should not be surprised when they do not change when met with the same stimulus.

The question then becomes is the problem the stimuli, or the group reacting to the stimuli?

Why the false dichotomy?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I don't see the post saying other religions need to be coddled. If so, that's even worse.

...What?

So now you're victim blaming. "If these cartoonists didn't want to get shot, they should have just not spoke their minds". You realize you are giving the terrorists what they want. Coercion is what terrorism is about. We should not let ourselves be cowed into submission.

When a group has a long established pattern of reacting in a particular way to a stimulus, you should not be surprised when they do not change when met with the same stimulus.

News flash, if you're willing to commit murder because someone criticized your religion, it's safe to say you were already an insular fundamentalist. By refusing to accept criticism, we are giving fundamentalists the chance to create an echo chamber where criticism is met with violence.

Let's think for a second. Let's think reallyhard.
There are fundamentalist Muslims in the West.
There are moderate Muslims in the West.
If you start ridiculing Islam, will the moderate Muslims be pushed towards mainstream society or fundamentalism?

I wish the moderate Muslims would just make the leap and become atheists tbh. Islam sure as hell hasn't made the middle east a better place to be and it's why this inaccurate notion exists that the middle east was always a savage and barbaric place when in reality it has a long history of civilization.

The best middle eastern societies were pre Islamic imo. The Persian Empire. Lydia. Phoenicia. Assyria. The Nabateans. I would like to see the middle east one day abandon Islam and hopefully other religions too.

[HXVZ-07031017]

The terrorists are pathetic. While there are more problems plaguing the Islamic World, you're focusing on this? Come on, have you ever heard of 86:17 of the Holy Quran?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

The terrorists are pathetic. While there are more problems plaguing the Islamic World, you're focusing on this? Come on, have you ever heard of 86:17 of the Holy Quran?

Do I wanna know about that? Do I wanna go into that right now?

[West Leas Oros 2]

You're literally justifying terrorism on grounds of "the cartoonists should have just shut up and let terrorists bully them into silence because they provoked them."

Just once, I would like to be able to explain the causes of something without accusations of justifying that thing.
It would be a welcome change of pace.

It's clear you are arguing in bad faith. It is not the fault of the cartoonists for being shot at, and no amount of excuses changes that. You are defending coercion and violence. Religious freedom should not be abridged in order to appease fundamentalists.

Have you considered calming down and actually reading what I write?

The question then becomes is the problem the stimuli, or the group reacting to the stimuli?

Why the false dichotomy?

Don't lie to me. You know full well that the cause isn't "some cartoonists offended fundamentalists", and you know that it's ridiculous to claim that it was the cartoonists, rather than the terrorists who should have changed their behavior. You aren't "explaining the causes", you're shifting blame onto the victims and trying to hold them at fault. Perhaps you don't intend to, but you inadvertently have.

[HXVZ-07031017]

The terrorists are pathetic. While there are more problems plaguing the Islamic World, you're focusing on this? Come on, have you ever heard of 86:17 of the Holy Quran?

Do I wanna know about that? Do I wanna go into that right now?

"So allow time for the disbelievers. Leave them awhile."
This is the verse that I have been referring to. The terror attack was going against this verse.

[Benuty]

...What?

When a group has a long established pattern of reacting in a particular way to a stimulus, you should not be surprised when they do not change when met with the same stimulus.

Let's think for a second. Let's think reallyhard.
There are fundamentalist Muslims in the West.
There are moderate Muslims in the West.
If you start ridiculing Islam, will the moderate Muslims be pushed towards mainstream society or fundamentalism?

I wish the moderate Muslims would just make the leap and become atheists tbh. Islam sure as hell hasn't made the middle east a better place to be and it's why this inaccurate notion exists that the middle east was always a savage and barbaric place when in reality it has a long history of civilization.

The best middle eastern societies were pre Islamic imo. The Persian Empire. Lydia. Phoenicia. Assyria. The Nabateans. I would like to see the middle east one day abandon Islam and hopefully other religions too.

I don't exactly fancy parents tossing their children into an open fire while priests wildly beat drums to drown out the childs horrific wailing as they burned to a crisp as the name of an old god is chanted merrily. The phoenicians, and by extensions Carthaginians were pretty brutal even by the standards of back then. Not to mention the Assyrians had a rather awful custom of wearing their enemies skin. The persians were arguably the best, but even they invented the incredible punishment of scaphism (which I can't link the wiki article from).

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I wish the moderate Muslims would just make the leap and become atheists tbh. Islam sure as hell hasn't made the middle east a better place to be and it's why this inaccurate notion exists that the middle east was always a savage and barbaric place when in reality it has a long history of civilization.

The best middle eastern societies were pre Islamic imo. The Persian Empire. Lydia. Phoenicia. Assyria. The Nabateans. I would like to see the middle east one day abandon Islam and hopefully other religions too.

I don't exactly fancy parents tossing their children into an open fire while priests wildly beat drums to drown out the childs horrific wailing as they burned to a crisp as the name of an old god is chanted merrily. The phoenicians, and by extensions Carthaginians were pretty brutal even by the standards of back then. Not to mention the Assyrians had a rather awful custom of wearing their enemies skin. The persians were arguably the best, but even they invented the incredible punishment of scaphism (which I can't link the wiki article from).

I still don't like Islam. If you wanna know what the middle east would look like under my watch, imagine an extra sinful Lebanon. Talking casinos everywhere, legal drugs, strippers, the hard Rock Cafe, and a gun shop with no limit on magazines. None of this religious gobblyguck and traditionalism. Kinda like what Trump America would look like if the donald got his wish to be a dictator.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Do I wanna know about that? Do I wanna go into that right now?

"So allow time for the disbelievers. Leave them awhile."
This is the verse that I have been referring to. The terror attack was going against this verse.

Damn I thought it was gonna be something awful like "but if the child says 'you lack a brain and you're ugly,' cast him out off over a cliff."

[Kubra]

I seriously doubt that anyone got radicalised over the cartoons. I mean let's be real, who radicalises based on *doctrine*?
Folks radicalise for far more mundane reasons. Lack of prospects in secular society, being born into a very conservative family and it's structure, watching videos of muslims getting droned, being a janitor a tunisian resort and watching westerners lord their wealth over you, you know normal stuff.

[HXVZ-07031017]

"So allow time for the disbelievers. Leave them awhile."
This is the verse that I have been referring to. The terror attack was going against this verse.

Damn I thought it was gonna be something awful like "but if the child says 'you lack a brain and you're ugly,' cast him out off over a cliff."

First of all, that is off-topic.
Second of all, that's fucking messed up and won't be over there in the Quran.

[Salus Maior]

I still don't like Islam. If you wanna know what the middle east would look like under my watch, imagine an extra sinful Lebanon. Talking casinos everywhere, legal drugs, strippers, the hard Rock Cafe, and a gun shop with no limit on magazines. None of this religious gobblyguck and traditionalism. Kinda like what Trump America would look like if the donald got his wish to be a dictator.

You've got a real chip on your shoulder, don't you?

[Jedi Council]

Good.

All religions are given too many safe spaces; is this blasphemy against islam? Perhaps.

However, I dont believe that any of the writers at Charlie Hebdo are Islamic and thus are not bound to follow islamic custom or law.

[Salus Maior]

Good.

All religions are given too many safe spaces; is this blasphemy against islam? Perhaps.

However, I dont believe that any of the writers at Charlie Hebdo are Islamic and thus are not bound to follow islamic custom or law.

If one wants to criticize something, they should criticize it and not make what are essentially troll posts to provoke a reaction.

I don't care for Islam much at all, I'm a huge critic of Islam. But this is just stomping on something that's sacred to a ton of people, in order to upset them, just because one can.

That's not a constructive step towards anything.

[Jedi Council]

Good.

All religions are given too many safe spaces; is this blasphemy against islam? Perhaps.

However, I dont believe that any of the writers at Charlie Hebdo are Islamic and thus are not bound to follow islamic custom or law.

If one wants to criticize something, they should criticize it and not make what are essentially troll posts to provoke a reaction.

I don't care for Islam much at all, I'm a huge critic of Islam. But this is just stomping on something that's sacred to a ton of people, in order to upset them, just because one can.

That's not a constructive step towards anything.

It's called satire. If people want to clutch their pearls and get all offended, that's their problem. Trying to placate the sensitivity of a certain religion should not infringe upon an outlets right to freedom of speech.

You can personally disapprove, as can anyone who finds it offensive, but those feelings do not entitle you or any institution, the right to censor said outlet.