[UPDATE] Charlie Hebdo targeted AGAIN

[Jedi Council]

But they do not. They do not have to claim any responsibility for being the victims of a crime. Do women who wear revealing clothing need to take responsibility for being sexually assaulted because said clothing is morel likely to draw male attention? Of course not. Same idea applies here.

there is a right to freedom of expression in France. If I want to post a satirical cartoon about Islam, or any religion for that matter, I should be able to without being told it will then be partially my responsibility if I am assassinated.

If you want to post a satirical cartoon about anything, you shouldn't need to be told that someone might take things to far and kill you. That is basic human nature. There's always going to be a few people who take too much offense to something and then go on a murder spree.

Yeah, but its not my fault if they do that and then kill me. You are shifting blame to the victims. Just stop.

Here is another example:

A LGBTQ person being murdered for being gay.

"Oh, well if he had just not worn that rainbow pin, or been a bit less flamboyant, he would not have provoked someone who might take things too far."

See how disgusting a statement that is?

[Phaenix]

If you want to post a satirical cartoon about anything, you shouldn't need to be told that someone might take things to far and kill you. That is basic human nature. There's always going to be a few people who take too much offense to something and then go on a murder spree.

Yeah, but its not my fault if they do that and then kill me. You are shifting blame to the victims. Just stop.

I will not stop, and I am not shifting the blame. I have a right to post my opinions, same as you. It is not your fault if you die from your work, but you should've been prepared for that possibility if you were making a form of satire, especially against extremist policies and certain religions.

[Jedi Council]

Yeah, but its not my fault if they do that and then kill me. You are shifting blame to the victims. Just stop.

I will not stop, and I am not shifting the blame. I have a right to post my opinions, same as you. It is not your fault if you die from your work, but you should've been prepared for that possibility if you were making a form of satire.

No, no one should be prepared to die over a fucking cartoon. That is justifying the actions of a cabal of moronic fanatics who want to intimidate people, who want to silence people. You are blaming Charlie Hebdo. You are blaming the people that died. The blame rests solely on the murderers and terrorists who decided to go in and kill 12 people.

See the edit to the post above for another example of how disgusting this line of thought is.

[Bear Stearns]

Yeah, but its not my fault if they do that and then kill me. You are shifting blame to the victims. Just stop.

I will not stop, and I am not shifting the blame. I have a right to post my opinions, same as you. It is not your fault if you die from your work, but you should've been prepared for that possibility if you were making a form of satire, especially against extremist policies and certain religions.

Why? Are some of those religions just inherently violent and aggressive :^)

[Phaenix]

I will not stop, and I am not shifting the blame. I have a right to post my opinions, same as you. It is not your fault if you die from your work, but you should've been prepared for that possibility if you were making a form of satire.

No, no one should be prepared to die over a fucking cartoon. That is justifying the actions of a cabal of moronic fanatics who want to intimidate people, who want to silence people. You are blaming Charlie Hebdo. you are blaming the people that died. The blame rests solely on the murderers and terrorists who decided to go in and kill 12 people.

Almost all the blame rests on those fanatics, yes. But if you do not think that making any kind of satire about politics, religion, anything could result in your death or injury, you are living a fantasy. The company is partially responsible, since they had those people publish those blatantly racist and Islamophobic cartoons.

[The Alma Mater]

I will not stop, and I am not shifting the blame. I have a right to post my opinions, same as you. It is not your fault if you die from your work, but you should've been prepared for that possibility if you were making a form of satire, especially against extremist policies and certain religions.

Why? Are some of those religions just inherently violent and aggressive :^)

Note that in some cultures "being unable to control your passions" when tempted or provoked is considered to be evidence of masculinity and pride, while self-control is a sign of weakness or non-manhood.

[The Alma Mater]

No, no one should be prepared to die over a fucking cartoon. That is justifying the actions of a cabal of moronic fanatics who want to intimidate people, who want to silence people. You are blaming Charlie Hebdo. you are blaming the people that died. The blame rests solely on the murderers and terrorists who decided to go in and kill 12 people.

Almost all the blame rests on those fanatics, yes. But if you do not think that making any kind of satire about politics, religion, anything could result in your death or injury, you are living a fantasy. The company is partially responsible, since they had those people publish those blatantly racist and Islamophobic cartoons.

Not almost, all.
You are correct that one can expect bad people to exist - but that does not make you guilty if the bad people do bad stuff.

[Atheris]

Eh, I could give two shits about mocking religious figures. Mock Mohammed, mock Jesus, mock Buddha, mock the Emperor of Man. I don't really care.

[Jedi Council]

No, no one should be prepared to die over a fucking cartoon. That is justifying the actions of a cabal of moronic fanatics who want to intimidate people, who want to silence people. You are blaming Charlie Hebdo. you are blaming the people that died. The blame rests solely on the murderers and terrorists who decided to go in and kill 12 people.

Almost all the blame rests on those fanatics, yes. But if you do not think that making any kind of satire about politics, religion, anything could result in your death or injury, you are living a fantasy. The company is partially responsible, since they had those people publish those blatantly racist and Islamophobic cartoons.

Wow this is just incredible, how willing you appear to be to shift the blame onto a group of innocent people murdered in cold blood.

Again, this is victim blaming 101. In any other circumstance, other than religion, your claims would be laughed out of court.

By your logic, a gay person murdered for being flamboyant should have known their behaviour might lead overreaction from religious fundamentalists and thus bears some responsibility for being killed.
By your logic, a woman wearing revealing clothing should have known that that behaviour would attract male attention, and thus bears responsibility for being raped.
By your logic, the black man who goes jogging near in a white neighbourhood should know that some ignorant racist prick would lose their mind and thus bears responsibility for being shot.

Like come on, this is not hard stuff. Charlie Hebdo published a series of cartoons that some found offensive. They have a right to do so. They are not bound by Islamic law nor custom. They live in a secular society where freedom of expression is a right, and where one group of people cannot foist their religious convictions or values upon another. Did they know that these cartoons would cause problems? Maybe, actually probably, one of the cartoonists had police protection. Does that mean it is their fault, their responsibility, that a bunch of lunatics murdered 12 people?

Not in a million fucking years.

[Kiu Ghesik]

Eh, I could give two shits about mocking religious figures. Mock Mohammed, mock Jesus, mock Buddha, mock the Emperor of Man. I don't really care.

=][=

+++Watch yourself, citizen. +++

+++Thought for the day: You are only allowed this thought today. Any more is HERESY! +++

=][=

[Benuty]

Why? Are some of those religions just inherently violent and aggressive :^)

Note that in some cultures "being unable to control your passions" when tempted or provoked is considered to be evidence of masculinity and pride, while self-control is a sign of weakness or non-manhood.

Makes sense if all the descriptions of the afterlife have overly sexualized aspirations and realizations. Like say what you will about the Christians idea of Heaven, but for the most part, it isn't just endless celestial sex (unless you are Mormon).

[Kowani]

I will not stop, and I am not shifting the blame. I have a right to post my opinions, same as you. It is not your fault if you die from your work, but you should've been prepared for that possibility if you were making a form of satire, especially against extremist policies and certain religions.

Why? Are some of those religions just inherently violent and aggressive :^)

The problem isn't religion, it's conservatism. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Benuty]

Why? Are some of those religions just inherently violent and aggressive :^)

The problem isn't religion, it's conservatism. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Arguably its a mixture. Muhammad wasn't thinking about conservatism or religion though when figuring out how to legally shaft a woman married to his adopted relative.

[Kowani]

The problem isn't religion, it's conservatism. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Arguably its a mixture. Muhammad wasn't thinking about conservatism or religion though when figuring out how to legally shaft a woman married to his adopted relative.

I'm not gonna defend Islam-there's some very suspicious exemptions for Muhammad only from the rest of the moral prohibitions that are there that just so happened to give him more hedonism points.
I do, however, take issue with the idea that Islam is more inherently aggressive.

[State of Turelisa]

Arguably its a mixture. Muhammad wasn't thinking about conservatism or religion though when figuring out how to legally shaft a woman married to his adopted relative.

I'm not gonna defend Islam-there's some very suspicious exemptions for Muhammad only from the rest of the moral prohibitions that are there that just so happened to give him more hedonism points.
I do, however, take issue with the idea that Islam is more inherently aggressive.

I think the problems with extremists exist where Islam and nationalism are associated together in the hearts and minds of Muslims, even though Islam clearly prohibits pride, which is the source of nationalist fervour.

[Kowani]

I'm not gonna defend Islam-there's some very suspicious exemptions for Muhammad only from the rest of the moral prohibitions that are there that just so happened to give him more hedonism points.
I do, however, take issue with the idea that Islam is more inherently aggressive.

I think the problems with extremists exist where Islam and nationalism are associated together in the hearts and minds of Muslims.

That is also a factor, yes.

[Insaanistan]

The problem isn't religion, it's conservatism. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Arguably its a mixture. Muhammad wasn't thinking about conservatism or religion though when figuring out how to legally shaft a woman married to his adopted relative.

He wasn’t making that up. He married her after she divorced his adopted son Zaid, and God said to marry her just so people understood that your adopted child’s spouse is not mahram.

[Jedi Council]

Arguably its a mixture. Muhammad wasn't thinking about conservatism or religion though when figuring out how to legally shaft a woman married to his adopted relative.

He wasn’t making that up. He married her after she divorced his adopted son Zaid, and God said to marry her just so people understood that your adopted child’s spouse is not mahram.

Sounds like a pretty shitty reason to marry someone

[Insaanistan]

He wasn’t making that up. He married her after she divorced his adopted son Zaid, and God said to marry her just so people understood that your adopted child’s spouse is not mahram.

Sounds like a pretty shitty reason to marry someone

He also married a Jewish lady who wanted to be Muslim so she wouldn’t end up poor. He also married a couple former slaves because of that.

[Jedi Council]

Sounds like a pretty shitty reason to marry someone

He also married a Jewish lady who wanted to be Muslim so she wouldn’t end up poor. He also married a couple former slaves because of that.

And that changes his marriage to Zaynab how?

It doesnt.

Then again, we are talking about a guy who was totally fine with slavery, so his immorality is not exactly surprising.

[Andsed]

No, no one should be prepared to die over a fucking cartoon. That is justifying the actions of a cabal of moronic fanatics who want to intimidate people, who want to silence people. You are blaming Charlie Hebdo. you are blaming the people that died. The blame rests solely on the murderers and terrorists who decided to go in and kill 12 people.

Almost all the blame rests on those fanatics, yes. But if you do not think that making any kind of satire about politics, religion, anything could result in your death or injury, you are living a fantasy. The company is partially responsible, since they had those people publish those blatantly racist and Islamophobic cartoons.

Not really. One only really holds responsibility for a crime being committed upon them as a result of their actions if they should have known or should have reasonably assumed whatever crime occurred would have happened in response to their action. For example if I ran at a stranger in a mask and wielding an ax as a prank and get punched in the face as a result, I am to blame since I should have known that doing that would likely result in someone attacking me. With publishing this cartoon a person could very sensibly assume the blacklash would mostly be limited to verbal outrage and some public gathering. There was not much reason for them to assume this would result in a terror attack and so trying to claim they hold some blame for it is quite dubious at best.

[Insaanistan]

He also married a Jewish lady who wanted to be Muslim so she wouldn’t end up poor. He also married a couple former slaves because of that.

And that changes his marriage to Zaynab how?

It doesnt.

Then again, we are talking about a guy who was totally fine with slavery, so his immorality is not exactly surprising.

You mean how he treated his wife’s (he didn’t own them) slaves like human beings when she had them before his prophethood, all of whom he freed out of moral conviction when his wife offered all her worldly possessions to him, and when he became a prophet literally bought slaves and immediately freed them? https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2020/jul ... verys-end/

[State of Turelisa]

Almost all the blame rests on those fanatics, yes. But if you do not think that making any kind of satire about politics, religion, anything could result in your death or injury, you are living a fantasy. The company is partially responsible, since they had those people publish those blatantly racist and Islamophobic cartoons.

Not really. One only really holds responsibility for a crime being committed upon them as a result of their actions if they should have known or should have reasonably assumed whatever crime occurred would have happened in response to their action. For example if I ran at a stranger in a mask and wielding an ax as a prank and get punched in the face as a result, I am to blame since I should have known that doing that would likely result in someone attacking me. With publishing this cartoon a person could very sensibly assume the blacklash would mostly be limited to verbal outrage and some public gathering. There was not much reason for them to assume this would result in a terror attack and so trying to claim they hold some blame for it is quite dubious at best

For many years before the terrorist attacks on its staff, there were legal issues concerning the content of its publications, whose legal outcomes all favoured the magazine. President Chirac's condemnation of the content of Charlie Hebdo's satire, 'that [which]can hurt the convictions of someone else, in particular religious convictions, should be avoided', went unheeded, and the obvious warning signs of an extremist reaction developing with the firebombing of the offices where four years later there was to be a massacre were ignored.

[The Alma Mater]

Arguably its a mixture. Muhammad wasn't thinking about conservatism or religion though when figuring out how to legally shaft a woman married to his adopted relative.

I'm not gonna defend Islam-there's some very suspicious exemptions for Muhammad only from the rest of the moral prohibitions that are there that just so happened to give him more hedonism points.
I do, however, take issue with the idea that Islam is more inherently aggressive.

I agree culture is a bigger factor than the religion. So how do we solve that ?

[Kowani]

I'm not gonna defend Islam-there's some very suspicious exemptions for Muhammad only from the rest of the moral prohibitions that are there that just so happened to give him more hedonism points.
I do, however, take issue with the idea that Islam is more inherently aggressive.

I agree culture is a bigger factor than the religion. So how do we solve that ?

Depends. Muslim immigrants to the West or Muslim countries?