Opinion On Same-Sex Marriage

[Cekoviu]

Since when is it not?

Since literally forever? Seriously, that's an utterly patheticly low standard to hold anything to.

in biology the continued existence and expansion of a species marks it as successful. seems reasonable to apply the same standard of "successful = survives and expands" to empires as well.

[Punished UMN]

Since when is it not?

Since literally forever? Seriously, that's an utterly patheticly low standard to hold anything to.

It's the most important standard.

[Novus America]

Since when is mere survival the standard of success?

Since when is it not?

I would think other things count. Lasting a long time in state of war and decline, some of it because of the religious conflicts, is not really a good thing.

[Punished UMN]

Since when is it not?

I would think other things count. Lasting a long time in state of war and decline, some of it because of the religious conflicts, is not really a good thing.

Survival is still the most important standard of success.

[Novus America]

Since literally forever? Seriously, that's an utterly patheticly low standard to hold anything to.

in biology the continued existence and expansion of a species marks it as successful. seems reasonable to apply the same standard of "successful = survives and expands" to empires as well.

Right, but what if the Empire is shrinking? The ERE spent most of its time losing land. Until it ended its final centuries as a mere rump state.

[Neanderthaland]

I would think other things count. Lasting a long time in state of war and decline, some of it because of the religious conflicts, is not really a good thing.

Survival is still the most important standard of success.

By that standard, opposing same-sex marriage is dumb. That opinion is dying like mayflies.

[Novus America]

I would think other things count. Lasting a long time in state of war and decline, some of it because of the religious conflicts, is not really a good thing.

Survival is still the most important standard of success.

But dying slowly is not really a great standard. Starting out strong and then slowly dying over a while is not really that impressive. The impressive part was building the great empire, not overseeing its decline and fall.

[Punished UMN]

Survival is still the most important standard of success.

By that standard, opposing same-sex marriage is dumb. That opinion is dying like mayflies.

I don't oppose same sex marriage.

[Punished UMN]

Survival is still the most important standard of success.

But dying slowly is not really a great standard. Starting out strong and then slowly dying over a while is not really that impressive.

A city-state that lasts 1000 years is more impressive than a super-state that lasts 69.

[Neanderthaland]

Survival is still the most important standard of success.

But dying slowly is not really a great standard. Starting out strong and then slowly dying over a while is not really that impressive. The impressive part was building the great empire, not overseeing its decline and fall.

Byzantium is the original sick man of Europe.

[Farnhamia]

As Theodora once said to Justinian, "Stick to the topic, darling, how beautiful am I, really?" For "how beautiful am I, really?" read "get it?"

[Langguo]

Marriage between two people who love each other and are faithful to each other is a morally good institution which should flourish. Their gender should be irrelevant.

[Cekoviu]

By that standard, opposing same-sex marriage is dumb. That opinion is dying like mayflies.

I don't oppose same sex marriage.

based

[Novus America]

Marriage between two people who love each other and are faithful to each other is a morally good institution which should flourish. Their gender should be irrelevant.

Love and faithfulness are not really important to civil marriage. You can have a legal marriage without love or faithfulness. And you can have love and faithfulness without paperwork.
Civil marriage is about legal benefits, not love.

[The Rich Port]

Perhaps you should work on settling a moon colony, then. Or Mars. Mars is supposed to be nice this time of year.

I think I'll wait for the next fall of civilisation, when proliferating contagious, incurable diseases, increasing waves of civil unrest, and increasingly frequent natural disasters are going to depopulate the world and reduce it to a primitive state. The survivors will displace and rearrange into societies united on cultural identities, keeping the outsiders out. Only when this happens, can a Christian theocracy be realised. All the signs indicate the end of the world as we know it is going to happen, and like Virgil, as I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood.

Ah so it's never gonna happen, good to know XD

I don't oppose same sex marriage.

based

More like basic.

[Kannap]

Maybe he's complaining about Christians wedding same sex couples? I know whenever I get married, I'd like my pastor to be the officiant.

do presbyterians do gay marriages?

The PC(USA) does, yes. In 2014, the 221st General Assembly voted in favor of allowing same-sex marriages in jurisdictions where it was legal, the proposed amendment changed the definition of marriage from "between a man and a woman" to "between two people, traditionally between a man and a woman" in our Book of Order. It was ratified by a majority of the 171 Presbyteries in March 2015 and took effect June 21, 2015

A handful of other Presbyterian denominations around the world support same-sex marriage, though there are a lot of Presbyterian denominations which don't.

The Mother Church (The Church of Scotland) is currently in the process of determining whether or not to accept same-sex marriage. Some good signs, though, are: In 2015 their General Assembly decided to permit the appointment and acceptance of gay ministers who are married. In 2017 the General Assembly issued an apology to homosexuals for past mistreatment. And they didn't sever ties with the PC(USA) following our decisions, unlike the National Presbyterian Church of Mexico - which severed a 139-year long relationship between our churches. In 2018 their General Assembly voted 345 by 170 to establish a committee to draft church law on the issue of same-sex marriage. That committee was supposed to report to the General Assembly this year but the annual meeting was understandably cancelled due to COVID.

We can probably expect the Mother Church to vote on the drafting church laws on same sex marriage next year when the committee delivers them.

But, yes, I'm looking forward to getting married someday and my pastor will certainly be the one to do it.

[Cekoviu]

do presbyterians do gay marriages?

The PC(USA) does, yes. In 2014, the 221st General Assembly voted in favor of allowing same-sex marriages in jurisdictions where it was legal, the proposed amendment changed the definition of marriage from "between a man and a woman" to "between two people, traditionally between a man and a woman" in our Book of Order. It was ratified by a majority of the 171 Presbyteries in March 2015 and took effect June 21, 2015

A handful of other Presbyterian denominations around the world support same-sex marriage, though there are a lot of Presbyterian denominations which don't.

The Mother Church (The Church of Scotland) is currently in the process of determining whether or not to accept same-sex marriage. Some good signs, though, are: In 2015 their General Assembly decided to permit the appointment and acceptance of gay ministers who are married. In 2017 the General Assembly issued an apology to homosexuals for past mistreatment. And they didn't sever ties with the PC(USA) following our decisions, unlike the National Presbyterian Church of Mexico - which severed a 139-year long relationship between our churches. In 2018 their General Assembly voted 345 by 170 to establish a committee to draft church law on the issue of same-sex marriage. That committee was supposed to report to the General Assembly this year but the annual meeting was understandably cancelled due to COVID.

We can probably expect the Mother Church to vote on the drafting church laws on same sex marriage next year when the committee delivers them.

But, yes, I'm looking forward to getting married someday and my pastor will certainly be the one to do it.

got it, thanks for the detailed info!

[The New California Republic]

do presbyterians do gay marriages?

The PC(USA) does, yes. In 2014, the 221st General Assembly voted in favor of allowing same-sex marriages in jurisdictions where it was legal, the proposed amendment changed the definition of marriage from "between a man and a woman" to "between two people, traditionally between a man and a woman" in our Book of Order. It was ratified by a majority of the 171 Presbyteries in March 2015 and took effect June 21, 2015

A handful of other Presbyterian denominations around the world support same-sex marriage, though there are a lot of Presbyterian denominations which don't.

The Mother Church (The Church of Scotland) is currently in the process of determining whether or not to accept same-sex marriage. Some good signs, though, are: In 2015 their General Assembly decided to permit the appointment and acceptance of gay ministers who are married. In 2017 the General Assembly issued an apology to homosexuals for past mistreatment. And they didn't sever ties with the PC(USA) following our decisions, unlike the National Presbyterian Church of Mexico - which severed a 139-year long relationship between our churches. In 2018 their General Assembly voted 345 by 170 to establish a committee to draft church law on the issue of same-sex marriage. That committee was supposed to report to the General Assembly this year but the annual meeting was understandably cancelled due to COVID.

The CoS final poll on SS marriage is expected in 2021. Whether that'll still be on schedule is a bit iffy. I'd imagine it might get pushed back to 2022.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... draft-laws

[Farnhamia]

The PC(USA) does, yes. In 2014, the 221st General Assembly voted in favor of allowing same-sex marriages in jurisdictions where it was legal, the proposed amendment changed the definition of marriage from "between a man and a woman" to "between two people, traditionally between a man and a woman" in our Book of Order. It was ratified by a majority of the 171 Presbyteries in March 2015 and took effect June 21, 2015

A handful of other Presbyterian denominations around the world support same-sex marriage, though there are a lot of Presbyterian denominations which don't.

The Mother Church (The Church of Scotland) is currently in the process of determining whether or not to accept same-sex marriage. Some good signs, though, are: In 2015 their General Assembly decided to permit the appointment and acceptance of gay ministers who are married. In 2017 the General Assembly issued an apology to homosexuals for past mistreatment. And they didn't sever ties with the PC(USA) following our decisions, unlike the National Presbyterian Church of Mexico - which severed a 139-year long relationship between our churches. In 2018 their General Assembly voted 345 by 170 to establish a committee to draft church law on the issue of same-sex marriage. That committee was supposed to report to the General Assembly this year but the annual meeting was understandably cancelled due to COVID.

The CoS final poll on SS marriage is expected in 2021. Whether that'll still be on schedule is a bit iffy. I'd imagine it might get pushed back to 2022.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... draft-laws

You know that if they vote in favor of same-sex marriage they'll be inundated with "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken."

[The Alma Mater]

I would say most large Churches, especially the Catholic Church, are far more interested in temporal power rather than the actual purity of their faith, no matter what they might tell themselves.

Maybe that is the case, after all the are made up of humans, and humans get greedy, but still it is short sighted. After all when the churches had the most temporal power, they disgraced themselves so badly they weakened themselves long term.
The Puritans for example basically imploded and ceased to exist because their greed for power destroyed their image.

The irony here is the churches actually harm themselves as religious institutions when they become governmental ones.

The bigger irony is that recognising and remedying that would vastly increase their power.
BUt they refuse. And so do their followers.

Take, as an example, the Catholics on this forum. Both in the "is there a God" and the CDT threads people are complaining uneducated people are making statements about christianity and lamenting that nobody listens to their experts anymore.

For which they blame the protestants. Not the fact that their experts and leaders have been behaving like powerhungy lying shit for centuries; clearly showing themselves unfit to hold any sort of moral high ground or to teach that.
And so they will never recover.

But this is a digression. As mentioned ad nauseam already - marriage is not the property of christians. If they dislike it they are free to make their own thing.

[Thepeopl]

Marriage between two people who love each other and are faithful to each other is a morally good institution which should flourish. Their gender should be irrelevant.

Love and faithfulness are not really important to civil marriage. You can have a legal marriage without love or faithfulness. And you can have love and faithfulness without paperwork.
Civil marriage is about legal benefits, not love.

Its easier to get married when you want children. Because when a spouse dies, the other spouse automatically keeps the children, house etc. If you aren't married, you need to draft all kinds of legal contracts, declarations and certificates. Per child.

Since lots of same sex couples also raise children, it is only fair they can marry and have their children and spouses thus protected.

[Novus America]

Love and faithfulness are not really important to civil marriage. You can have a legal marriage without love or faithfulness. And you can have love and faithfulness without paperwork.
Civil marriage is about legal benefits, not love.

Its easier to get married when you want children. Because when a spouse dies, the other spouse automatically keeps the children, house etc. If you aren't married, you need to draft all kinds of legal contracts, declarations and certificates. Per child.

Since lots of same sex couples also raise children, it is only fair they can marry and have their children and spouses thus protected.

Sure. But that is about the legal benefits. Civil marriage is a matter of paperwork, inheritance and taxes. And I agree gay couples should get the same legal protections.
My simple point is civil marriage is not about esoteric things, it is a practical matter.

[State of Turelisa]

Well, the sacrament of marriage is between a man and woman, it's lifelong, and supposed to be open to the prospect of procreation. This is the standard of God.

We're failing to meet it; we've failed to meet it for so long.

Marriage predated Christianity by thousands of years, I'm not sure why the religious feel the need to claim it as though it was some divinely inspired union.

Before Christianity, Man was in the fallen, irredeemable state of total depravity, and anything of which he conceived, including marital union, was invalid because it was without God's sanction.

Well, the sacrament of marriage is between a man and woman, it's lifelong, and supposed to be open to the prospect of procreation. This is the standard of God.

We're failing to meet it; we've failed to meet it for so long.

Same sex marriage and adoption shouldn’t be allowed and neither should divorce? Why?

The question of whether it's right or wrong that homosexuals adopt children is not the topic of the thread. You've asked it again and again.
Please stop.

[Geneviev]

Marriage predated Christianity by thousands of years, I'm not sure why the religious feel the need to claim it as though it was some divinely inspired union.

Before Christianity, Man was in the fallen, irredeemable state of total depravity, and anything of which he conceived, including marital union, was invalid because it was without God's sanction.

What about the Old Testament? There was marriage then, and I'd argue that it was legitimate even though it came before Christianity.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Oh boi y'all gonna be surprised when it's Izanami no Mikoto who greets you at the gates of Yomi and not Jahweh.